California wildfires

[DC Tom]

On 11/14/2018 at 11:20 AM, KD in CA said:

 

There were several stories of people who survived the Napa/Sonoma fires last year that way.  Some of those fires exploded within minutes in the middle of the night.  People had literally minutes to react.  Not quite the same as blowing off hurricane warnings for a week.

 

I've read of people in the Hamburg and Tokyo bombings doing the same...and getting boiled to death.

 

Still, if you're out of options...

On 11/13/2018 at 5:05 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Popped inside.  And not filled with water.

 

Anyway... Nobody is addressing why they aren't clearing growth every 30-50 years.  If they rotated around, it's constant maintenance of new growth and clearing old growth.  I would rather spend the $$$$ that way then letting the forests go to pot and spend copious amounts on fire suppression.  The fires aren't helping global warming!  Vicious circle.

 

Why in last 30 years are we not clearing forests?

 

 

The 2016-2017 rainy season caused an explosion of growth that's the fuel for these fires.  

 

Not 30 years.  Not even 30 months.  

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

I've read of people in the Hamburg and Tokyo bombings doing the same...and getting boiled to death.

 

Still, if you're out of options...

 

The 2016-2017 rainy season caused an explosion of growth that's the fuel for these fires.  

 

Not 30 years.  Not even 30 months.  

 

I love how people have all the answers when the have no clue regarding the landscape and our weather cycles. As I’ve mentioned in the past our biggest fire dangers come after our wettest rainy season. The hills turn bright green in the winter and slowly die and turn brown as the dry season progresses. Most of our wildfires are the scrub that grows on the hills.  This is the view of the Santa Ana mountains from my house. Not a tree in sight on those mountains. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Chef Jim

[Uncle Joe]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:57 AM, KD in CA said:

 

It wasn't that bad until late Thursday afternoon when it suddenly got much worse.  Friday was awful;  basically no difference being indoors.

 

But even that was nothing compared to what Sacramento looked like driving up here.  Like driving into the abyss on the highway, couldn't see anything but the cars in front.

 

We're half joking about telling people we're relocating Thanksgiving to Soda Springs.

I was in San Francisco Wednesday through Saturday and the air was rated unhealthy to very unhealthy. Schools were closed Friday and the trolleys were shut down. People were walking all over downtown with N95 masks. Very apocalyptic looking. The amount of casualties in Paradise is very significant. I feel fortunate to be back in Oregon breathing clean air.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I love how people have all the answers when the have no clue regarding the landscape and our weather cycles. As I’ve mentioned in the past our biggest fire dangers come after our wettest rainy season. The hills turn bright green in the winter and slowly die and turn brown as the dry season progresses. Most of our wildfires are the scrub that grows on the hills.  This is the view of the Santa Ana mountains from my house. Not a tree in sight on those mountains. 

 

 

Why was the worst fire prior to this way back in 1933?  Then it's either GW, or people living in wrong areas... Too many in wrong areas.

 

I don't deny GW... But come on!  That ain't what's causing this.

 

It would help if we go back to conservation methods prior to all the oppressive environmental regulations starting in 1980s & 1990s.  Bring an economic value to that timber.  Enviros have it at zero now.

 

Who's the conservative, who's the flaming liberal here.  Wow... Alter reality between you and me.

 

Can't cherry pick when it affects your backyard.

[Chef Jim]

Many of these fires are caused by man. Everything from a spark from the blade of a bulldozer clearing brush hitting a rock to poorly maintained power lines to arson and homeless people using fire to cook or keep warm. So yeah it’s mostly an overpopulation thing. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

28 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Many of these fires are caused by man. Everything from a spark from the blade of a bulldozer clearing brush hitting a rock to poorly maintained power lines to arson and homeless people using fire to cook or keep warm. So yeah it’s mostly an overpopulation thing. 

Liked post.  But not in the sense of liking.  Just agree with it.  Sad.  By far, the death toll is astronomical compared to 1933 Griffiths... Incredible, people burned alive in vehicles fleeing.

 

Did you see the skeleton in that one link!

 

We talk about the Edmund Fitzgerald being a solemn grave sight... These fire deaths are too!  Yet, business as usual will push them out of the way.  

 

Hideous just hideous!

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why was the worst fire prior to this way back in 1933?  Then it's either GW, or people living in wrong areas... Too many in wrong areas.

 

I don't deny GW... But come on!  That ain't what's causing this.

 

It would help if we go back to conservation methods prior to all the oppressive environmental regulations starting in 1980s & 1990s.  Bring an economic value to that timber.  Enviros have it at zero now.

 

Who's the conservative, who's the flaming liberal here.  Wow... Alter reality between you and me.

 

Can't cherry pick when it affects your backyard.

 

Explain how logging would have prevented the Camp Fire.  But before you do, explain the trees in this picture:

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Explain how logging would have prevented the Camp Fire.  But before you do, explain the trees in this picture:

 

Yeah... Wouldn't have helped there if started or jumped the break there.

 

Only option... Over crowding... To far embedded in woods with residental cul de sacs.

 

 

Too many ignition sources near too much fuel.

 

Those residential houses are fuel too...

 

Notice the tops of those trees... Some others.  The trees will actually bounce back... Not so for suburbia.  That's the $$$$$ pit.

 

Lot of trees are intact... Standing.  Houses not a speck.

[Misterbluesky]

Malibu is in for mud/rock slides because of the incoming rain.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Here is the thing about that picture.  Some trees, many trees are still intact... Made it out of the burn, inferno.  Yet, those houses are packed in tighter on that cul de sac tighter than an Eagle Scout's camp fire!  Every single one of those house TOTALLY burned to nothing.  Those houses are built from better fuel than the woods they are embedded in.  Those houses are "dryer lint" in the middle of a bonfire!  Smooth plan.

 

One house belongs on that street in a clearing... If that.  And needs to be built from fire resistant materials... Not local "fuel."  How about tile, slate, local stone.

 

California loves environmental regs... That should pass well.

54 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Malibu is in for mud/rock slides because of the incoming rain.

Yikes...

[row_33]

a tree to develop to that level has to have a lot going for it

 

 

[Wacka]

Some trees need fire to get their seeds to germinate.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, Wacka said:

Some trees need fire to get their seeds to germinate.

Redwoods right?

 

But that redwood deck makes a nice fire starter...

 

If only we can figure out how to germinate burnt homes...

[ExiledInIllinois]

32 minutes ago, row_33 said:

a tree to develop to that level has to have a lot going for it

 

 

Not really.  That's not primodial growth.  Not much is.  Probably well past tertiary growth.  This (EDIT: The picture many years later at "Starvation Camp") was the Donner Party in the winter of 1846-47 stumping the forest primeval:

 

 

Yes, that's how deep the snow was.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Like A Mofo]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:57 AM, Chef Jim said:

 

I love how people have all the answers when the have no clue regarding the landscape and our weather cycles. As I’ve mentioned in the past our biggest fire dangers come after our wettest rainy season. The hills turn bright green in the winter and slowly die and turn brown as the dry season progresses. Most of our wildfires are the scrub that grows on the hills.  This is the view of the Santa Ana mountains from my house. Not a tree in sight on those mountains. 

 

 

 

Great point Chef and I do remember how green it got around here in 2017 after the really rainy January we had. The normally brown mountains on the 91 on the way to Corona were as green as I can ever remember seeing.

[Fires]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:17 PM, Chef Jim said:

Many of these fires are caused by man. Everything from a spark from the blade of a bulldozer clearing brush hitting a rock to poorly maintained power lines to arson and homeless people using fire to cook or keep warm. So yeah it’s mostly an overpopulation thing. 

   Arson class I took years ago when I worked fo the FD.... " The 3 biggest causes of Fires are, Men, Women and Children".. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Hate to break it to the the ones with TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome):

 

https://nypost.com/2018/11/20/actually-even-california-says-trump-is-right-about-the-wildfires/amp/

 

"President Trump’s critics are belittling him for not buying the lefty narrative that global warming is to blame for the California wildfires. Instead, Trump points to decades of mistakes by government agencies that caused the woodlands to become overly dense and blanketed with highly flammable dead wood and underbrush.

He’s exactly right.

Just ask California officials. Two months ago, the state legislature enacted a measure that would expedite the removal of dead trees and use “prescribed burns” to thin forests. In other words: the very same reforms that Trump is now being mocked for proposing. The September law followed a Gov. Jerry Brown executive order earlier this year that also called for “controlled fires” to improve forest health."

 

 

[dpberr]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Hate to break it to the the ones with TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome):

 

https://nypost.com/2018/11/20/actually-even-california-says-trump-is-right-about-the-wildfires/amp/

 

"President Trump’s critics are belittling him for not buying the lefty narrative that global warming is to blame for the California wildfires. Instead, Trump points to decades of mistakes by government agencies that caused the woodlands to become overly dense and blanketed with highly flammable dead wood and underbrush.

He’s exactly right.

Just ask California officials. Two months ago, the state legislature enacted a measure that would expedite the removal of dead trees and use “prescribed burns” to thin forests. In other words: the very same reforms that Trump is now being mocked for proposing. The September law followed a Gov. Jerry Brown executive order earlier this year that also called for “controlled fires” to improve forest health."

 

 

 

I doubt California officials disagree with Trump about forest management tactics and strategy.  However, being politicians and bureaucrats themselves, they probably loathe being called out in public about it, even if it's deserved, and that's where emotion takes over the logic.  My guess is since the state has been ridiculously broke for nearly 50 years and has had drought for that long (it seems) it's an easy thing to cut.  Nobody likes fire in an area without rain, right?  

 

We have similar debates in Pennsylvania.  The forest lovers scream at the idea of controlled burns.  They scream at logging to promote growth of the understory.  

 

 

[Chef Jim]

41 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Hate to break it to the the ones with TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome):

 

https://nypost.com/2018/11/20/actually-even-california-says-trump-is-right-about-the-wildfires/amp/

 

"President Trump’s critics are belittling him for not buying the lefty narrative that global warming is to blame for the California wildfires. Instead, Trump points to decades of mistakes by government agencies that caused the woodlands to become overly dense and blanketed with highly flammable dead wood and underbrush.

He’s exactly right.

Just ask California officials. Two months ago, the state legislature enacted a measure that would expedite the removal of dead trees and use “prescribed burns” to thin forests. In other words: the very same reforms that Trump is now being mocked for proposing. The September law followed a Gov. Jerry Brown executive order earlier this year that also called for “controlled fires” to improve forest health."

 

 

 

Again wrong wrong wrong.  Yes, who the ***** am I?  I'm fighting the "experts" on this but again the majority, the VAST majority of homes and property burned in CA wildfires are scrub and brush and not forests.  So thinning the the forests of dead tress (though helpful) will not do much to save homes and property damaged in our annual fires.  We call it "fire season" for a reason. 

[mead107]

Come to my house , it’s *****en cold.  Glaciers covered the area at one time.  Screw global warming