13 Killed; 18 Hurt in So. Cal. Bar Mass Shooting

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

Perfecr. Let’s male sure that guns in the entire world are banned. Put in a giant rocket and shipped off to the sun. That way no criminals can ever get their hands on them and we will be all safe. 

 

Also, we’ll have to outlaw tubes of any sort because criminals can just make zip guns out of things like pen tubes and a .22 round. 

 

So so let’s just just outlaw every single thing in the world. Live in a society like I’m the movie Equilibrium where books, music, free thinking is outlawed. 

No. That's just how gun control works withIN a country.  We have open borders between states.

 

Not saying I agree with it tight control.  Let's be real.  How can You have one place with super tight controls and right next to it, lesser controls... You think people are going to pay attention to laws when in that jurisdiction that has tight controls there exists a "vacuum."  Criminality will flourish, not because of either, but because of both opposing gun laws.  Chicago is a classic example because there is no buffer zone with the wildly diverging laws so close.

 

Put two and two together.  Just like anything else illegal.  Like fireworks.  You have less of anything illegal when it's imbedded far away from where it is illegal or there are closed borders.  Not saying illegal arms don't get to Canada, but there is a mechanism in place to stop the transportation.  Where is that mechanism with tough gun control places via interstate?  Even with some radically diverse intrAstate cultures.  The suburbs are usally that check against urban criminality and rural rights.

 

Just saying, it's all or not when dealing with these issues.  We can blame the gun control just as much as the lack of gun control.

Edited November 9, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[mrags]

9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

No. That's just how gun control works withIN a country.  We have open borders between states.

 

Not saying I agree with it tight control.  Let's be real.  How can You have one place with super tight controls and right next to it, lesser controls... You think people are going to pay attention to laws when in that jurisdiction that has tight controls there exists a "vacuum."  Criminality will flourish, not because of either, but because of both opposing gun laws.  Chicago is a classic example because there is no buffer zone with the wildly diverging laws so close.

 

Put two and two together.  Just like anything else illegal.  Like fireworks.  You have less of anything illegal when it's imbedded far away from where it is illegal or there are closed borders.  Not saying illegal arms don't get to Canada, but there is a mechanism in place to stop the transportation.  Where is that mechanism with tough gun control places via interstate?  Even with some radically diverse intrAstate cultures.  The suburbs are usally that check against urban criminality and rural rights.

 

Just saying, it's all or not when dealing with these issues.  We can blame the gun control just as much as the lack of gun control.

You are correct about the bolder for sure. 

 

Witu the whole thing in general tho you cannot just ban all weapons in the country and expect there won’t be issues. By that rationale cocaine, heroin, and other drugs that are generally made outside the country; wouldn’t be issues. But they are. Because criminals don’t follow laws. Never have and never will. Go back to the days of prohibition, just because alcohol was outlawed; it didn’t mean nobody ever got drunk. There were family legacies built on all the illegal booze making and running that was going on. 

 

Im not saying there shouldn’t be rules and regulations in place. But the only thing that would benefit is if everyone that was able to have a gun, had the ability to carry it everywhere they wanted (not available now because of gun free zones) there wouldn’t be as many of these shootings. Criminals, or people looking to harm others would think twice about these things because they wouldn’t know if some old man, young man, elderly woman, father, mother, etc. has a gun in their pocket, purse, waist. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 minutes ago, mrags said:

You are correct about the bolder for sure. 

 

Witu the whole thing in general tho you cannot just ban all weapons in the country and expect there won’t be issues. By that rationale cocaine, heroin, and other drugs that are generally made outside the country; wouldn’t be issues. But they are. Because criminals don’t follow laws. Never have and never will. Go back to the days of prohibition, just because alcohol was outlawed; it didn’t mean nobody ever got drunk. There were family legacies built on all the illegal booze making and running that was going on. 

 

Im not saying there shouldn’t be rules and regulations in place. But the only thing that would benefit is if everyone that was able to have a gun, had the ability to carry it everywhere they wanted (not available now because of gun free zones) there wouldn’t be as many of these shootings. Criminals, or people looking to harm others would think twice about these things because they wouldn’t know if some old man, young man, elderly woman, father, mother, etc. has a gun in their pocket, purse, waist. 

So You want the wild west.  When do we check the guns.  In the wild west, it was mandatory to check the gun when one entered the saloon.

 

Guess what, that "saloon" is everything in open society today. Booze makes people go crazy right?  What's "checking" the crazy people.  Are we locking them away like we used to, or are they on the streets... Ie: "The Saloon?"

 

I mean I agree with you, in a rational world everybody could own guns.  But we don't live in a rational world, irrationality exists.  That irrationality spoils it for all the rational.

 

I mean come on!  We see it happening.  You want check points everywhere in society so just a few people don't have to give up their guns because "their way of life" is centered on them.  I guess so, because that "way of life" is a right.

Edited November 9, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So You want the wild west.  When do we check the guns.  In the wild west, it was mandatory to check the gun when one entered the saloon.

 

Guess what, that "saloon" is everything in open society today. Booze makes people go crazy right?  What's "checking" the crazy people.  Are we locking them away like we used to, or are they on the streets... Ie: "The Saloon?"

 

I mean I agree with you, in a rational world everybody could own guns.  But we don't live in a rational world, irrationality exists.  That irrationality spoils it for all the rational.

 

I mean come on!  We see it happening.  You want check points everywhere in society so just a few people don't have to give up their guns because "their way of life" is centered on them.  I guess so, because that "way of life" is a right.

What I see right now is criminals and scumbags that want to commit crimes and do harm to others have their way with anyone they want. Until, a good guy with a gun comes along and stops it. If that’s some guy enjoying his day at the “saloon”, or waiting for a police officer to arrive to end the disturbance. 

 

It still holds true that only criminals and people looking to harm others are the ones causing the problems. The law abiding citizens are still just going about their business and NOT committing crimes or doing harm to others. 

 

The majority of gun violence in this country is carried out by people that do not have permits for these guns. Are not using a registered gun. Are finding ways to purchase “illegal” guns. 

 

Whats not funny about this this whole situation is that it’s barely a story right now. I’m not seeing it anywhere really. Why is that? Because it wasn’t an AR15 rifle that the weilder used. It was a simple pistol. Since it’s not as useful for the liberal dems arguments for banning “assault” weapons, it’s not being talked about as much. If this was a guy going into a bar with an AR15, this would be the biggest story right now. It’s not even arguable. 

And the whole “Wild West” thing is a nice argument. But it’s still a false. Because we go back to the criminals and law abiding citizens argument. Only the criminals are the ones trying to do harm to others. The law abiding citizens are there to protect themselves and others that aren’t looking to do anyone any harm. 

[GoBills808]

42 minutes ago, mrags said:

What I see right now is criminals and scumbags that want to commit crimes and do harm to others have their way with anyone they want. Until, a good guy with a gun comes along and stops it. If that’s some guy enjoying his day at the “saloon”, or waiting for a police officer to arrive to end the disturbance. 

 

It still holds true that only criminals and people looking to harm others are the ones causing the problems. The law abiding citizens are still just going about their business and NOT committing crimes or doing harm to others. 

 

The majority of gun violence in this country is carried out by people that do not have permits for these guns. Are not using a registered gun. Are finding ways to purchase “illegal” guns. 

 

Whats not funny about this this whole situation is that it’s barely a story right now. I’m not seeing it anywhere really. Why is that? Because it wasn’t an AR15 rifle that the weilder used. It was a simple pistol. Since it’s not as useful for the liberal dems arguments for banning “assault” weapons, it’s not being talked about as much. If this was a guy going into a bar with an AR15, this would be the biggest story right now. It’s not even arguable. 

And the whole “Wild West” thing is a nice argument. But it’s still a false. Because we go back to the criminals and law abiding citizens argument. Only the criminals are the ones trying to do harm to others. The law abiding citizens are there to protect themselves and others that aren’t looking to do anyone any harm. 

It’s front page on most every online US news outlet right now.

[Augie]

This may in fact the most “un-winnable” topic ever on this board. Top 5 for sure. 

 

Few people can imagine what those families are going through tonight.   I’m sorry if that derails anyone’s idea of......entertainment?  

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

What I see right now is criminals and scumbags that want to commit crimes and do harm to others have their way with anyone they want. Until, a good guy with a gun comes along and stops it. If that’s some guy enjoying his day at the “saloon”, or waiting for a police officer to arrive to end the disturbance. 

 

It still holds true that only criminals and people looking to harm others are the ones causing the problems. The law abiding citizens are still just going about their business and NOT committing crimes or doing harm to others. 

 

The majority of gun violence in this country is carried out by people that do not have permits for these guns. Are not using a registered gun. Are finding ways to purchase “illegal” guns. 

 

Whats not funny about this this whole situation is that it’s barely a story right now. I’m not seeing it anywhere really. Why is that? Because it wasn’t an AR15 rifle that the weilder used. It was a simple pistol. Since it’s not as useful for the liberal dems arguments for banning “assault” weapons, it’s not being talked about as much. If this was a guy going into a bar with an AR15, this would be the biggest story right now. It’s not even arguable. 

And the whole “Wild West” thing is a nice argument. But it’s still a false. Because we go back to the criminals and law abiding citizens argument. Only the criminals are the ones trying to do harm to others. The law abiding citizens are there to protect themselves and others that aren’t looking to do anyone any harm. 

Yet, isn't Your world view skewed (no offense) being a corrections LEO?

 

Just saying... You are seeing things on "steroids."

 

I simply don't worry about "bad guys" and I live and work in very rough, diverse areas.  Yet, I am isolated.  I am not on constant edge because I have to deal with the scum of the earth in my vocational/occupational life.

 

Again, I mean no offense by saying this. Do You think Your professional life alters the a world view on this?

Edited November 9, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[boyst]

35 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s front page on most every online US news outlet right now.

Because having Sessions story on the front page is not the story the media wants to cover.

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Because having Sessions story on the front page is not the story the media wants to cover.

Whoop whoop... Be very still, I think the black ops media helos are circling... Shhh... Hear that rotor pitch?  Run!

 

MDS: Media Derangement Syndrome

 

Boyst has got it bad!

 

@ its finest... ?

[mrags]

25 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yet, isn't Your world view skewed (no offense) being a corrections LEO?

 

Just saying... You are seeing things on "steroids."

 

I simply don't worry about "bad guys" and I live and work in very rough, diverse areas.  Yet, I am isolated.  I am not on constant edge because I have to deal with the scum of the earth in my vocational/occupational life.

 

Again, I mean no offense by saying this. Do You think Your professional life alters the a world view on this?

All my profession did was open up my mind to the fact that there are some seriously sick and demented people in the world. 

 

I have family that lives in NYC and are very anti gun. They don’t even mention the word gun in their house because they fear for their 6 year old who has an infatuation with them. Oddly, he isn’t allowed to have them as toys, or speak of them, or watch cartoons with them. They are so dilisional to the fact that 70+% of incarcerated prisoners in NYS come from NYC.

 

They feel they are safe everywhere they go. When I even mention how crime filled the city is, they completely shut it out and refuse to listen. They are strongly against me carrying a weapon when I’m there visiting because of their children. Ironically, they are no different from any other anti gunner I’ve ever talked to when a terrible thing like this mass shooting happens. They want to ban all guns and see no reason as to why anyone needs them. But they just finished arguing about how safe things are and there is no reason for a law abiding citizen should carry a weapon. 

 

At the end end of the day, it’s a personal preference. If you or anyone else is not comfortable shooting, or carrying a gun, I am fine with your opinion to not want a gun in your life. But I am qualified to carry one. I practice with it regularly. I will not take a chance with my life, or the life of anyone else that I care about and refrain from carrying one. 

 

We can say all we want about things aren’t that bad where nobody needs to carry a gun. Yet here are all the anti gunners commenting about how bad things are and how often these “mass shootings” happen and how it needs to stop. You want to feel safer about it.  Buy yourself a gun. Become comfortable with it. Practice with it. And be ready to save your life or someone that you care about when something happens. Any one of us could have been in that bar... just sayin

[Augie]

23 minutes ago, mrags said:

All my profession did was open up my mind to the fact that there are some seriously sick and demented people in the world. 

 

I have family that lives in NYC and are very anti gun. They don’t even mention the word gun in their house because they fear for their 6 year old who has an infatuation with them. Oddly, he isn’t allowed to have them as toys, or speak of them, or watch cartoons with them. They are so dilisional to the fact that 70+% of incarcerated prisoners in NYS come from NYC.

 

They feel they are safe everywhere they go. When I even mention how crime filled the city is, they completely shut it out and refuse to listen. They are strongly against me carrying a weapon when I’m there visiting because of their children. Ironically, they are no different from any other anti gunner I’ve ever talked to when a terrible thing like this mass shooting happens. They want to ban all guns and see no reason as to why anyone needs them. But they just finished arguing about how safe things are and there is no reason for a law abiding citizen should carry a weapon. 

 

At the end end of the day, it’s a personal preference. If you or anyone else is not comfortable shooting, or carrying a gun, I am fine with your opinion to not want a gun in your life. But I am qualified to carry one. I practice with it regularly. I will not take a chance with my life, or the life of anyone else that I care about and refrain from carrying one. 

 

We can say all we want about things aren’t that bad where nobody needs to carry a gun. Yet here are all the anti gunners commenting about how bad things are and how often these “mass shootings” happen and how it needs to stop. You want to feel safer about it.  Buy yourself a gun. Become comfortable with it. Practice with it. And be ready to save your life or someone that you care about when something happens. Any one of us could have been in that bar... just sayin

 

I’m not a gun guy, but I like your post. 

 

My wife grew up in SC shooting off the back porch, so we got that!  ?

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I’m not a gun guy, but I like your post. 

 

My wife grew up in SC shooting off the back porch, so we got that!  ?

Same here.

 

Except the part about the wife shooting off the back porch.  She grew up in Lackawanna off of Abbott.  First time visiting Our Son at camp, she met Him @ the range.  I had to calm Her down that it wasn't just a free for all on the shooting range!  LoL... Far Left Libs!

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

Because having Sessions story on the front page is not the story the media wants to cover.

I dunno, I think most people saw that one coming.

 

34 minutes ago, mrags said:

All my profession did was open up my mind to the fact that there are some seriously sick and demented people in the world. 

 

I have family that lives in NYC and are very anti gun. They don’t even mention the word gun in their house because they fear for their 6 year old who has an infatuation with them. Oddly, he isn’t allowed to have them as toys, or speak of them, or watch cartoons with them. They are so dilisional to the fact that 70+% of incarcerated prisoners in NYS come from NYC.

 

They feel they are safe everywhere they go. When I even mention how crime filled the city is, they completely shut it out and refuse to listen. They are strongly against me carrying a weapon when I’m there visiting because of their children. Ironically, they are no different from any other anti gunner I’ve ever talked to when a terrible thing like this mass shooting happens. They want to ban all guns and see no reason as to why anyone needs them. But they just finished arguing about how safe things are and there is no reason for a law abiding citizen should carry a weapon. 

 

At the end end of the day, it’s a personal preference. If you or anyone else is not comfortable shooting, or carrying a gun, I am fine with your opinion to not want a gun in your life. But I am qualified to carry one. I practice with it regularly. I will not take a chance with my life, or the life of anyone else that I care about and refrain from carrying one. 

 

We can say all we want about things aren’t that bad where nobody needs to carry a gun. Yet here are all the anti gunners commenting about how bad things are and how often these “mass shootings” happen and how it needs to stop. You want to feel safer about it.  Buy yourself a gun. Become comfortable with it. Practice with it. And be ready to save your life or someone that you care about when something happens. Any one of us could have been in that bar... just sayin

I can comfortably say I have zero problem with you carrying a gun. People who are knowledgable about firearms, comfortable in handling and operating them, practice shooting them regularly- those are the gun owners I trust. They understand the responsibility that comes with ownership and CCW. 

 

Unfortunately I know you're in the minority when it comes to gun owners. Take myself, for example. I own five rifles and I'm reasonably proficient in handling and operating them safely. However, I don't practice as often as I should and consequently I know my skills and safety practices aren't 100% as sharp as they should be. Recently I made the choice recently to hold off on purchasing a handgun as I don't have the time to properly learn enough about safely using a weapon I'm not as familiar with. I think the majority of gun owners aren't like yourself and are lacking in either the requisite skill and training in firearm operation/safety, or the temperament to handle themselves adequately in a situation involving a gunfight, or both.

Edited November 9, 2018 by GoBills808
bad grammar

[Augie]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Same here.

 

Except the part about the wife shooting off the back porch.  She grew up in Lackawanna off of Abbott.  First time visiting Our Son at camp, she met Him @ the range.  I had to calm Her down that it wasn't just a free for all on the shooting range!  LoL... Far Left Libs!

 

My wife was like 11 when her grandfather had her shooting squirrels with a .22 off the back porch. I did not raise my kids that way, to say the least. She would take them to gun ranges! (Don’t mess with her, FYI) 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I dunno, I think most people saw that one coming.

 

I can comfortably say I have zero problem with you carrying a gun. People who are knowledgable about firearms, comfortable in handling and operating them, practice shooting them regularly- those are the gun owners I trust. They understand the responsibility that comes with ownership and CCW. 

 

Unfortunately I know you're in the minority when it comes to gun owners. Take myself, for example. I own five rifles and I'm reasonably proficient in handling and operating them safely. However, I don't practice as often as I should and consequently I know my skills and safety practices aren't 100% as sharp as they should be. Consequently I made the choice recently to hold off on purchasing a handgun as I don't have the time to properly learn enough about safely using a weapon I'm not as familiar with. I think the majority of gun owners aren't like yourself and are lacking in either the requisite skill and training in firearm operation/safety, or the temperament to handle themselves adequately in a situation involving a gunfight, or both.

I mean I agree, but how can safety practices not be as sharp as they can be?

 

Your either safe or not?

[GoBills808]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

I mean I agree, but how can safety practices not be as sharp as they can be?

 

Your either safe or not?

Just little things- field of vision (long and short), knowing where your barrel's pointing all the time, remembering how many rounds are left in the magazine, a bunch of small steps that if you're shooting a lot become second nature but if you aren't you really have to be locked in to remember all the steps. At least that's how I do it. And I acknowledge that I should be shooting a couple times a week to maintain where I want to be at as far as gun safety goes and I don't. I got a hunt in about 2 months ago, I hadn't been out with the rifle for weeks before and I felt a little unprepared. Just not sharp...I don't exactly know how to explain it. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Just little things- field of vision (long and short), knowing where your barrel's pointing all the time, remembering how many rounds are left in the magazine, a bunch of small steps that if you're shooting a lot become second nature but if you aren't you really have to be locked in to remember all the steps. At least that's how I do it. And I acknowledge that I should be shooting a couple times a week to maintain where I want to be at as far as gun safety goes and I don't. I got a hunt in about 2 months ago, I hadn't been out with the rifle for weeks before and I felt a little unprepared. Just not sharp...I don't exactly know how to explain it. 

So basically you feel like Vontae Davis out there.  Kudos, at least you acknowledge it the proper way! ?

 

 

[Cripple Creek]

14 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Ah, in this thread:

Racism

Projection

Political unrest

Silliness.

And lies.

 

 

Well done.

 

 

Don’t forget dickishness.

[ExiledInIllinois]

19 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Don’t forget dickishness*.

Always gotta have dickishness*.  The Internet was massively built around that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Is that a word?

[mrags]

35 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Just little things- field of vision (long and short), knowing where your barrel's pointing all the time, remembering how many rounds are left in the magazine, a bunch of small steps that if you're shooting a lot become second nature but if you aren't you really have to be locked in to remember all the steps. At least that's how I do it. And I acknowledge that I should be shooting a couple times a week to maintain where I want to be at as far as gun safety goes and I don't. I got a hunt in about 2 months ago, I hadn't been out with the rifle for weeks before and I felt a little unprepared. Just not sharp...I don't exactly know how to explain it. 

Knowing what you have told me. I would feel comfortable with you being by my side while out with a gun. At the very least I don’t believe you to be an idiot that can’t handle it. You know the general functioning of a gun. You know your limitations. You know not to point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot. That means a lot. At the very least you aren’t out there like....

 

 

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/KtpodxW