My Answer to a Question Murph asked P. King “Is Buffalo missing something with approach to Offense?”

[ganesh]

21 minutes ago, Flip Johnson said:

 

We can all agree that McDermott comes from a defensive background.

 

However, people who laugh at McDermott when he talks about 'controlling the line of scrimmage' or 'winning physical battles' don't understand what they are talking about. The Rams, Saints, Patriots, and Chiefs dominate the line of scrimmage (at least on the offensive side). They may do it with 3 or 4 wide or spread personnel, but that doesn't change the reality.

 

It is not like McDermott's vision is to line up in the I-formation with two TEs and just slug the ball down the field. I think that really is what Rex or Marrone wanted to do. 

 

The issues on offense are many but scheme or philosophy is not the problem. It's everything else that made an offense we knew would be weak turn out historically bad - dead money, lack of talent, unexpected injuries on the O-line, poor planning at the backup QB, brutal schedule, etc. 

We simply don't have the players to execute the offensive philosophy.   A second problem is that Coach Daboll has not put a good game plan to put his rookie and sophomore QBs to succeed

 

[Bob in STL]

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

[Man with No Name]

Bill Belichick was pretty conservative the Pats, until Brady proved himself over a number of years. As he got better and better, they were able to open up to a greater extent. It wasn't until 07, six years in,  that they really opened up. 

[Fadingpain]

9 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

So then, considering our offense is literally historically bad, you're saying Sean McDermott is not a good HC.

 

Yes?

 

 

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

Thank you. I’ve read several mentions of Belichick and his being a “defensive” coach as an example for giving those guys some leeway. That misses the point by light years. Belichick knows more about EVERY phase of the game in EVERY situation of the game, including coaches like McVay and Nagy. If and when guys like McD can demonstrate that kind of all around command of the game, then Belichick comparisons will be more appropriate. 

[26CornerBlitz]

19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

Oh it isn't.  You have coaches like Payton,  McVay,  Reid, and Pederson who effectively serve as their own coordinator while turning the responsibility on the other side to a trusted assistant.  

Edited November 6, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Bob in STL]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

So then, considering our offense is literally historically bad, you're saying Sean McDermott is not a good HC.

 

Yes?

 

 

 

No this is bigger than offense or defense or what the HC job was BEFORE he became the HC. 

 

 I think he needs 3 to 4 years to do a fair assessment.  My assessment will not be based on how good any one phase of the game is.  It will be on the teams overall performance measured by wins and losses. 

 

His first year was excellent in that he won 9 games even after roster was stripped down.  He had the team motivated and he overcame a horrible 3 game stretch were the defense was very poor.    

 

His 2nd year is a disaster and not likely to change.  He will be accountable for the play on the field and the rebuild of the roster.

 

So far in the past 1.5 seasons in the job he is not grading out very well. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Chan was the closest thing we've had to a decent OC in the last 20 years. This is a offensive dominated league. Stop hiring DC's for God's sake. Fore every Belichick you get 20 Jaurons.....Look how good Lynn looks with a viable qb....

[Bob in STL]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Oh it isn't.  You have coaches like Payton,  McVay,  Reid, and Pederson who effectively serve as their own coordinator while turning the responsibility on the other side to a trusted assistant.  

You just proved my point,   Head coaches have been calling offensive plays since the 50's, 60's, 70's.  The coaches you named have offensive assistants but they call they shots.

 

Brown, Allen, Lombardi, Stram, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh, the list is endless.  Plays were sent down to Marv Levy too.   Then the specialty coordinator thing started and all this offensive minded/ defensive minded baloney started where some HC's let the two coordinators run the game.   But it does not have to be that way. 

 

My point is the HC is responsible for all of it, if he passes one or both phases of it to someone else that is his business. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Bob in STL said:

You just proved my point,   Head coaches have been calling offensive plays since the 50's, 60's, 70's.  The coaches you named have offensive assistants but they call they shots.

 

Brown, Allen, Lombardi, Stram, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh, the list is endless.  Plays were sent down to Marv Levy too.   Then the specialty coordinator thing started and all this offensive minded/ defensive minded baloney started where some HC's let the two coordinators run the game.   But it does not have to be that way. 

 

My point is the HC is responsible for all of it, if he passes one or both phases of it to someone else that is his business. 

 

I actually just proved my own point with the specific examples I provided although it varies from team to team with some HCs serving in the role of administrator. 

[CodeMonkey]

Quote

Is Buffalo missing something with approach to Offense?

 

Yeah, it's missing an offense.

[Chris66]

1 hour ago, 2003Contenders said:

I know the emergence of the Rams with McVey and the Bears with Naggy has everyone talking about offensive-minded head coaches. However, I don't think it has much to do with whether the coach is offense-minded or defense-minded. Bill B may go down in history as the greatest head coach in NFL history, and he is a defensive guy. Beginning with Mularkey, three of the four head coaches (Mularkey, Chan, Marrone) that the Bills hired came from the offensive side of the ball.

 

 

BB knows offense just as much as defense. They have been running variations of his offense for 18 years now. These type of coaches no longer exist. Now hc run their side of the ball and pretty much give the opposite coordinator full control

[fansince88]

2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Done!

 

 

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

You should consider changing the title.

I wish I knew what the original title was....I dont care much for this one.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

Yeah, it's missing an offense.

 

Not so fast! I find it to be offensive. Does that count? 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   

That old school mentality permeated OBD.    But we whiffed time and again on quarterbacks.   The team has no identity.   McDermott is trying to establish one, similar to what they have in Carolina.  Solid defense, and trying to by dynamic on offense.  It works in Carolina because they have the QB.   Whether we have the QB or not is another thread.  But the common denominator in every regime since Wade Phillips left is the lack of a QB.   We lose, coaches get fired, another guy comes in and cleans house, whiffs on a QB, rinse repeat.

 

...nicely done "Pops".......except for the "trying to be dynamic on offense".....it is unconscionable that this gang could have whiffed so badly on offense......almost like it is an after thought......rehash of Jauron ball and REMOTELY trying to mimic the Yr 2000 Ravens SB champs.......sure the Woods retirement and Incognito meltdown had effects, and now Shady is Shadyless......but some of their personnel moves offensively sure as hell defy logic........no need to repeat......feel bad for Josh coming into this mess, working his tail off, keeping a positive team attitude and getting beat up when he should be sitting/learning......they have the 2019 draft and FA to show something substantially........if we're wallowing in the SAME manure at this time next year, I'd sure as hell lose patience if I was Pegula.........stay tuned........

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   

 

It has not been cleared out.  Jim Overdorf has been there forever (that is an exaggeration but I cannot find when he was hired but he was working for Bills as far back as 1999) and is definitely an old holdover.

[JaCrispy]

4 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I agree, but it’s also the choices different Head coaches would make based on their own expertise and preference.

 

lets say Pegulas hired a Sean McDermott in 2017...with ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE, that guy was a Offensive Coordiantor from Carolina.

 

2017 - Does a Offensive Minded Head Coach trade away from P. Mahomes and/or D. Watson in favor of a CB?

 

Say we had a 1st Year Offensive Minded Head Coach for 2018 then...

 

2018 - If we still Draft Josh Allen does a Offensive Minded Head Coach keep the 2nd 1st Round pick and draft a Linebacker?  Or does he draft WR Calvin Ridley to give his Rookie QB a viable target to grow with over the next 4-5 seasons?

 

these decisions were all bred from McDermott’s defensive preference.

Excellent post! ?

[BBills88]

We should get a special teams coach. The last one Buffalo had went to 4 straight Superbowls.

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Going to read some names

 

Wade Phillips

Greg Williams

Dick Jauron

Rex Ryan

Sean McDermott

 

Defense, Defense, Defense.  ALL Defensive Minded/Philosophical coaches whose approach permeates from the top bottom.

 

now the other two Head Coaches? 

 

Doug Marrone, a Offensive Sided Coach, but who is almost just as conservative and Defensive Minded as any Defensive Coordiantor in the league.  I mean...Coach Marrone was quoted as saying he NEVER WANTED TO THROW.

 

That only leaves Chan Gailey as being the only true Offensive Minded Head Coach to have control in Buffalo.  And while Chan did have some things he was far from progressive or innovative and really was Used Goods.

 

and Mike Mularkey who frankly i just recalled because another poster pointed it out.  If I try all I recall was McGahee running the bills to the 9-7 record.

 

1 of 2 things will happen.

1.) Allen will be good and his abilities will mask all of McDermott’s conversativeness.

 

2.) Allen wont be good and he and McDermott will be removed.

 

IF that happens, we need to hope/plead that the Pegulas will finally identify a YOUNG, PROGRESSIVE, INOVATING OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH.

We had the best screen game in the NFL under Gailey...Spiller was lethal on screens under him

[reddogblitz]

Two of the great offensive minds in NFL history were known as defensive guys when hired.

 

Tom Landry,  player/DC for the Champion Giants.

Bill Bellyache, DC of the Champion Giants.

 

Marv Levy was HC of a really good offensive team who was a Special Teams Coordinator.