billsfan1959 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis? Apparently, you and the national media have a lot in common.
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis? Just some quick math but somewhere around 55 million give or take a few Edited November 13, 2018 by CaptnCoke11
billsfan1959 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Says the guy who adds nothing. Tell us again how they got rid of Darius because he wasn't their guy (which doesn't explain keeping Hughes and others) - and not because he was a lazy, under-performing head case, who didn't perform to the level of his contract on anywhere near a consistent basis. BTW, the Bills' rushing defense has a better DVOA than Jax. Talk about adding nothing....
Magox Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Your mad I see. The initial repercussions of the Dareus trade resulted in teams running up and down the field on us. Dareus was starting to play very well for the Bills before they traded him and continued that good play with the Jags. It was extremely odd and bad timing. They've since fixed the issue, but Star isn't the player Dareus is at his best. You're still clamoring for the days of overpriced and underperforming former players? Let it go 1 1
billsfan1959 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Your mad I see. The initial repercussions of the Dareus trade resulted in teams running up and down the field on us. Dareus was starting to play very well for the Bills before they traded him and continued that good play with the Jags. It was extremely odd and bad timing. They've since fixed the issue, but Star isn't the player Dareus is at his best. Not mad at all. There were times teams ran up and down the field on us when Darius was here. When Darius wanted to play, he was elite. The problem was that he never played that way on a consistent basis and was nowhere near the dominant player (again, on a consistent basis) to warrant the contract he was awarded. It may have had initial repercussions; however, IMHO, the long-term benefits outweigh those repercussions - and it is not even close. Edited November 13, 2018 by billsfan1959
Magox Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Simply stating that fans saying them being in "cap hell" was the reason these guys are gone is completely untrue. And those days are still here brother. Benjamin, Murphy and Star are on the team.?? Benjamin will be gone, Star is playing better than Dareus last two years with us and Murphy if he can stay healthy which is a big if had been playing at about that contract level. And if all three of those players were gone, I wouldn't be complaining about it. Edited November 13, 2018 by Magox 1
teef Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: You realize just because you don't get market value for every FA you sign and overpay a little doesn't make it a bad signing? You think the Chiefs care that they may have slightly overpaid for Sammy? yet you complain that the bills overpaid for star. and the chiefs didn't slightly over pay for sammy. they way overpaid for him. 16 mill a year to be the 3rd wr is nuts. they'll come to that conclusion too.
Thurman#1 Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis? Your question is subtly spinning. Watkins, Dareus, Glenn and Darby aren't the only moves they made to save cap. They made a ton of them. So, to unspin, I'll ask the correct question: Simple question: How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they hadn't rebuilt, if they'd reloaded instead. Simple answer: A whole shitload less. Instead of being #3 in the league next year in available cap rankings they'd probably be somewhere similar to what they were last year going into the offseason, #26. We'd still probably have Tyrod at QB, and Robert Woods (ah, Tyrod racking up the yards throwing to Watkins and Woods. Yeah, the good old days and all those 300 yard games. I remember it well. From my imagination.) And Gilmore. Marquise Goodwin, maybe. Now to look at your (well-spun) question alone, and give a rough answer based on average salary per year (if you want to be more specific, do your own research, which you could have done in the first place): Watkins: $16 mill Dareus: $16 mill Glenn: $12 mill Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill. Total $60 mill Lotulelei $10 mill Benjamin $0 (his contract ends this year and I don't see them re-signing him, do you?) Murphy $7.5 mill Davis $0 He retired. I'm guessing the Bills go after his bonuses and guarantees. Could they be denied? Maybe, but my guess is they win. Total $17.5 mill Net difference $42.5 mill, just on the guys you mentioned. Throw on Tyrod's salary, Gilmore's, Robert Woods', and Goodwin's and since they're reloading instead of rebuilding they move as much of Incognito's and Wood's dead money from this year to next ... and a few other reload rather than rebuild moves and you're right back in the salary cap crap. And you don't have Josh Allen unless you threw in next year's first or more to go from #22 to #7. Edited November 14, 2018 by Thurman#1 1
Thurman#1 Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. Who talks nationally about the Bills? Everyone, that's who. Yeah, they spend far more time on the good teams but they talk about everyone to some degree. And they're often far more on target than Bills fans because they're not emotionally involved. Who was closer on win counts this year, the national pundits or cheery Bills fans? Oh, and is Dareus a better player than Star? Right now? The evidence on that is simply not there. Dareus no longer gets much of a pass rush. He's turned into a far more expensive Lotulelei. Dareus used to be terrific, but he hasn't been the same guy the last three years or so. Dareus has one sack, one tackle for loss and one QB hit this year. If he's better, it's not by all that much. Dareus is only "slightly more expensive"? $16 mill per year vs. $10 mill per year? I think you're straining the word "slightly" there. That's comparing the 4th highest average salary for DTs versus the 15th highest. "Sammy is a #1 WR on most teams", you say? Man, I think you're flat-out dreaming. Five years and 3567 yards and 28 TDs. In what universe are those #1 WR numbers. How many #1 WRs have one out of their five seasons over 1000 yards, and none of them are in the last three years? He isn't even the best receiver on that team or his team last year. Two guys have more catches than him just on the Chiefs, and he's in a two-way tie for third in TDs, just among the Chiefs. Hill has three times more TDs than Sammy and Kelce twice more. Watkins is a #2. Guy's been paid on potential his whole career and nothing is changing now. He's 31st in yards, in a multi-place tie for 43rd in TDs. You don't become a #1 WR based on how many yards and catches and TDs you might get if they threw it to you much. I always liked Sammy and I thought he was going to be a #1. I still hope he becomes one. But right now he isn't even close. And yes, the Bills are overpaying Benjamin. But the fact that the Bills are overpaying (two years for $9 million, $8.5 of which is for this year, but he's off the roster next year w/ no dead cap) for the 24th highest paid WR if you use this year's salary only, is no excuse whatsoever for KC's wildly overpaying the 6th highest paid WR in the league with a contract that will keep him there for years. Edited November 14, 2018 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 16 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Assuming they resign or franchise Watkins. It's probably around 60 or 65. No where near cap hell and still plenty of money to make some solid FA signings. Yeah, if those were the only moves that would have been different if they had reloaded instead of rebuilding. But it shouldn't even be necessary to point this out but those are very much NOT the only moves they made differently based on long-term strategy. And yest the results would have been a continuation of cap hell.
Ol Dirty B Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 17 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Apparently, you and the national media have a lot in common. Ouch, you got him there!!!! 16 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Tell us again how they got rid of Darius because he wasn't their guy (which doesn't explain keeping Hughes and others) - and not because he was a lazy, under-performing head case, who didn't perform to the level of his contract on anywhere near a consistent basis. BTW, the Bills' rushing defense has a better DVOA than Jax. Talk about adding nothing.... It amazes me how the guy who tells someone else they don't follow the Bills closely enough still can't figure out how to spell Dareus.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 Lot of speculation, hand wringing and pining for the ‘talent’ from of a perennial loser, but the OP subject line remains unblemished and true...
ghostwriter Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 22 hours ago, ScottLaw said: You realize just because you don't get market value for every FA you sign and overpay a little doesn't make it a bad signing? You think the Chiefs care that they may have slightly overpaid for Sammy? They didn't just overpay slightly, they overpayed massively. That's their business though. He's still a good receiver though.
teef Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 16 hours ago, ScottLaw said: I didn't complain about it. I said Dareus is a better player and cap he is only slightly more than Stars's. Again I disagree on that. Sammy's a number 1 WR on just about every team. Chiefs are just loaded and Sammy does his part to contribute. When he's a FA in another few years he'll get paid again. If you think the Chiefs way overpaid for Sammy, what did the Bills do for Benjamin? Sammy is a big contributor to their offense. Benjamins borderline useless making 9 mil this year. no is isn't. he's had 3 tds all year. he's being paid 16 million a year for 3 tds. that's shockingly overpaid. i have no idea why you kelvin. he's useless too, but it has nothing to do with sammy being overpaid. let me guess...sammy is a super high end decoy again? everyone let us know that the ram's offense would just fall apart when sammy left. guess what? id didn't. at all. sammy just isn't the contributor that some want to make him out to be. he's a good wr, but not worth what he's getting paid. 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Your question is subtly spinning. Watkins, Dareus, Glenn and Darby aren't the only moves they made to save cap. They made a ton of them. So, to unspin, I'll ask the correct question: Simple question: How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they hadn't rebuilt, if they'd reloaded instead. Simple answer: A whole shitload less. Instead of being #3 in the league next year in available cap rankings they'd probably be somewhere similar to what they were last year going into the offseason, #26. We'd still probably have Tyrod at QB, and Robert Woods (ah, Tyrod racking up the yards throwing to Watkins and Woods. Yeah, the good old days and all those 300 yard games. I remember it well. From my imagination.) And Gilmore. Marquise Goodwin, maybe. Now to look at your (well-spun) question alone, and give a rough answer based on average salary per year (if you want to be more specific, do your own research, which you could have done in the first place): Watkins: $16 mill Dareus: $16 mill Glenn: $12 mill Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill. Total $60 mill Lotulelei $10 mill Benjamin $0 (his contract ends this year and I don't see them re-signing him, do you?) Murphy $7.5 mill Davis $0 He retired. I'm guessing the Bills go after his bonuses and guarantees. Could they be denied? Maybe, but my guess is they win. Total $17.5 mill Net difference $42.5 mill, just on the guys you mentioned. Throw on Tyrod's salary, Gilmore's, Robert Woods', and Goodwin's and since they're reloading instead of rebuilding they move as much of Incognito's and Wood's dead money from this year to next ... and a few other reload rather than rebuild moves and you're right back in the salary cap crap. And you don't have Josh Allen unless you threw in next year's first or more to go from #22 to #7. oh snap. i should have just reposted this for scott. i know you won't absorb a word of this scott, but whether anyone want to believe it, this is/was the reality of this team. i jsut hope it works out in the end.
billsfan1959 Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: It amazes me how the guy who tells someone else they don't follow the Bills closely enough still can't figure out how to spell Dareus. Ahhh… you really put me in my place. Shaming me over a spelling error. How will I ever recover and show my avatar face on this board again?
ghostwriter Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 4 hours ago, teef said: no is isn't. he's had 3 tds all year. he's being paid 16 million a year for 3 tds. that's shockingly overpaid. i have no idea why you kelvin. he's useless too, but it has nothing to do with sammy being overpaid. let me guess...sammy is a super high end decoy again? everyone let us know that the ram's offense would just fall apart when sammy left. guess what? id didn't. at all. sammy just isn't the contributor that some want to make him out to be. he's a good wr, but not worth what he's getting paid. In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal.
GoBills808 Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal. Isn't WR franchise tag $16M?
LSHMEAB Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Watkins: $16 mill Dareus: $16 mill Glenn: $12 mill Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill. Total $60 mill That is really grasping at straws to assume they'd franchise Ronald Darby and pay him 16 mil a year. Unless of course, you're also assuming they drafted Pat Mahomes and Tre White wasn't on the roster. In that case, the entire world would be flipped on it's head and we'd have very little to complain about. When you feel the need to make things up, you probably don't have a great case. 1
ghostwriter Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Isn't WR franchise tag $16M? For one year. His 5th year option would be substantially lower. 1
teef Posted November 14, 2018 Posted November 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal. well...that was kind of my point. the bills could have taken the 5th year option, but then what? consistently franchise him, get ready for a hold out, and still overpay for his production? the same people complaining the bills let sammy go are the same ones who would be screaming that we paid too much. when watkins was here, i really just assumed that the lack of production was due to bad qb play. when his time came, why in the world wouldn't he have tested FA,(unless the bills held him hostage)? obviously someone was willing to over pay, and no way would the bills have matched it. nor should they have apparently. at very least the bills got a 2nd out of him, but i'm not happy sammy isn't on the team either. there is something up with him though. he's since played for two top end qbs, and just hasn't shown the production. no way sammy is worth what he's getting paid now. maybe that changes, but i doubt it. at least he was paid. 3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: For one year. His 5th year option would be substantially lower. but what after the 5th year?
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