McD - we do have wins, although they are not always on the scoreboard. Saw some Bills style football yesterday

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here is the thing thought:  People need to stop comparing McD to Fox or Fisher.  They got fired for being bad HC's.  Fisher has the most losses in NFL history for instance.  

 

There is fairy tale going on amongst this board that suddenly feels this false narrative that a HC with defensive backgrounds cant be good NFL HC's...all the while Belicheck has dominated the NFL and this division for almost 20 years as a defensive minded HC.  

If you look at the top teams in the league in 2018, they all have offensive coaches.

 

Saints- Payton

Rams- McVay

Eagles- Pederson

Chiefs- Andy Reid

Patriots- I really cant say Belichick as a defensive head coach is the difference. He’s a brilliant coach of course and brings so many intangibles, but the reason the Pats are good this year is Brady. Their defence is actually one of the worst In football. 

 

I am not saying you can’t win with a defensive head coach. But In an offensive league where you will have to score 30 plus points to win a lot of games, I would prefer the Bills taking their chances by getting an offensive guy to take the reigns. 

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Go read my man Reed83HOF's post from a few minutes ago. BB just happens to be a defensive coach who realized how stupid it was to prioritize defense and the running game over a decade ago. He evolved and dictated where the league was going to go. It helped that he also had the best QB to ever play the game, too. But he didn't have Tommy hand off 30 times a game to "establish the line of scrimmage" -- he unleashed an innovative nuclear passing attack on the league. 

 

Pretty much aligns exactly with what I'm saying. 

 

You are really not very good at this.

 

How many 20+ point blowout losses does McD have so far?

 

You are really, really not very good at this. 

You are not very good at this.  Who the hell cares about the blowouts, this IS NOT THE OFFENSE THEY ARE BUILDING.  I mean even a 4th grader can understand that.  They have NOT begun to fix the offense yet outside drafting Allen.  That is THIS year.  Both Beane and McD have stressed the importance of a passing attack in todays NFL, the DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL YET TO DO IT.  I mean WTF is so hard for people to understand about that?????? Seriously?  They drafted their QB with the tools to lead a big passing game, next offseason its about adding the pieces around him to execute it.  Its not rocket science.  

Edited November 6, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

Obviously you didn't read the bottom part...troll

 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not very good at this.  Who the F cares about the blowouts, this IS NOT THE OFFENSE THEY ARE BUILDING.  I mean even a 4th grader can understand that.  They have NOT begun to fix the offense yet outside drafting Allen.  That is THIS year.  Both Beane and McD have stressed the importance of a passing attack in todays NFL, the DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL YET TO DO IT.  I mean WTF is so hard for people to understand about that?????? Seriously?  They drafted their QB with the tools to lead a big passing game, next offseason its about adding the pieces around him to execute it.  For F**KS sake, its not rocket science.  

 

I get all that, but NO ONE knows what McD can do yet.  This is NOT even close to what he is trying to build.  He took a team led by TT who just about everyone here said could NEVER make the playoffs with TT and did just that.  Now he has a rookie QB, who also got hurt and no real support around him yet.  They are focusing on the offense this next year, we won't know what kind of a HC McD can be until then.  To judge him with the worst offensive peronnel in the league is absurd is my point.

Agree totally as the book on McDermott is far from written yet. I’m just saying comparing Belichick to any other defensive minded coach is a stretch for me. Like all HCs, McD has to fully understand the entire game and nobody has ever done that to the level of Belichick across all phases and aspects of the game, imo.

[Alphadawg7]

 

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I agree with your larger point here, but starting out as coaches in the NFL on the D side of the ball is where the similarities between Belichick and everyone else ends. Hes not just a “defensive minded coach”, he is a total master of the game of football, in all phases, in all game situations. He’s a football savant if there is such a thing. I mean, he was breaking down game films for his dad at the Naval academy when he was 9 years old for crissakes. 

 

I get all that, but NO ONE knows what McD can do yet.  This is NOT even close to what he is trying to build.  He took a team led by TT who just about everyone here said could NEVER make the playoffs with TT and did just that.  Now he has a rookie QB, who also got hurt and no real support around him yet.  They are focusing on the offense this next year, we won't know what kind of a HC McD can be until then.  To judge him with the worst offensive peronnel in the league is absurd is my point.

 

5 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

If you look at the top teams in the league in 2018, they all have offensive coaches.

 

Saints- Payton

Rams- McVay

Eagles- Pederson

Chiefs- Andy Reid

Patriots- I really cant say Belichick as a defensive head coach is the difference. He’s a brilliant coach of course and brings so many intangibles, but the reason the Pats are good this year is Brady. Their defence is actually one of the worst In football. 

 

I am not saying you can’t win with a defensive head coach. But In an offensive league where you will have to score 30 plus points to win a lot of games, I would prefer the Bills taking their chances by getting an offensive guy to take the reigns. 

 

 

 

 

 

There are 100 ways to win, chasing what is new and shiny is a sure fire way to never get there.  

 

Payton - Hadn't made the playoffs in years until they finally started improving the Defense.  5000 season after 5000 yard season by Brees...LOSING record.  

 

Eagles arent the same this year, and their defense is a big reason why even though Wentz is playing great.  Hmmm....

 

Reid has NEVER won a SB and only been once.  And their only loss...to a smarter defensive coach, BB.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not very good at this.  Who the F cares about the blowouts, this IS NOT THE OFFENSE THEY ARE BUILDING.  I mean even a 4th grader can understand that.  They have NOT begun to fix the offense yet outside drafting Allen.  That is THIS year.  Both Beane and McD have stressed the importance of a passing attack in todays NFL, the DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL YET TO DO IT.  I mean WTF is so hard for people to understand about that?????? Seriously?  They drafted their QB with the tools to lead a big passing game, next offseason its about adding the pieces around him to execute it.  For F**KS sake, its not rocket science.  

 

I get all that, but NO ONE knows what McD can do yet.  This is NOT even close to what he is trying to build.  He took a team led by TT who just about everyone here said could NEVER make the playoffs with TT and did just that.  Now he has a rookie QB, who also got hurt and no real support around him yet.  They are focusing on the offense this next year, we won't know what kind of a HC McD can be until then.  To judge him with the worst offensive peronnel in the league is absurd is my point.

 

There are 100 ways to win, chasing what is new and shiny is a sure fire way to never get there.  

 

Payton - Hadn't made the playoffs in years until they finally started improving the Defense.  5000 season after 5000 yard season by Brees...LOSING record.  

 

Eagles arent the same this year, and their defense is a big reason why even though Wentz is playing great.  Hmmm....

 

Reid has NEVER won a SB and only been once.  And their only loss...to a smarter defensive coach, BB.

I’m not saying defence isn’t part of success. It is. But it’s just not as important as having a

modern day 2018 offence and it’s not as important as it was 15 years ago.

 

You can win a super bowl by having an average defence or even mediocre. You just can’t win by having an average offence any more

[twoandfourteen]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not very good at this.  Who the F cares about the blowouts, this IS NOT THE OFFENSE THEY ARE BUILDING.  I mean even a 4th grader can understand that.  They have NOT begun to fix the offense yet outside drafting Allen.  That is THIS year.  Both Beane and McD have stressed the importance of a passing attack in todays NFL, the DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL YET TO DO IT.  I mean WTF is so hard for people to understand about that?????? Seriously?  They drafted their QB with the tools to lead a big passing game, next offseason its about adding the pieces around him to execute it.  For F**KS sake, its not rocket science.  

 

I get all that, but NO ONE knows what McD can do yet.  This is NOT even close to what he is trying to build.  He took a team led by TT who just about everyone here said could NEVER make the playoffs with TT and did just that.  Now he has a rookie QB, who also got hurt and no real support around him yet.  They are focusing on the offense this next year, we won't know what kind of a HC McD can be until then.  To judge him with the worst offensive peronnel in the league is absurd is my point.

 

McDermott personally identified and built just about the entire offense. The only holdovers are LeSean McCoy & Charles Clay. 

The QBs, the OCs (one already failed, one currently failing), 4 of the 5 starting OL, all of the WRs... McD picked all of them. 

 

The offense is HIS offense. This historically bad offense is the product of HIS management. 

 

 

 

Also, Mike Tolbert. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree totally as the book on McDermott is far from written yet. I’m just saying comparing Belichick to any other defensive minded coach is a stretch for me. Like all HCs, McD has to fully understand the entire game and nobody has ever done that to the level of Belichick across all phases and aspects of the game, imo.

 

I totally agree with you on that.  And I am not saying McD will be good at that, I am making the case there is no way to know that today given the talent he has to work with this year and the injury to Allen.  

 

I will say he managed to take a bad offense to the playoffs last year, and during a year most thought we would win 5 games around here.  So he has earned the benefit of the doubt until the personnel gets better next year.  End of next season, if the offense is not vastly improved after investing in it this off season, then his seat will get hot.

4 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I’m not saying defence isn’t part of success. It is. But it’s just not as important as having a

modern day 2018 offence and it’s not as important as it was 15 years ago.

 

You can win a super bowl by having an average defence or even mediocre. You just can’t win by having an average offence any more

 

You quoted a bunch of stuff not directed at you...lol.  So dont take it personal, I like your posts and you as a poster.

 

But, what about 2015?  Just 3 years ago.  Broncos won the SB with the worst QB's in the NFL that year in Manning and Brock during the regular season, and then won the big game with the worst QB performance in SB history for a winning QB.  

 

Flacco won the SB with mediocre offense a couple years before that.  Seattle won the SB and almost back to back with run first offense.  I mean this was all in the last handful of years.  Most SB's have-at least one team that isnt a prolific offense over the last 10 years, and several winners.  Giants beat Pats TWICE...who had the most prolific offense in NFL history at that point with defense.  

 

I meant there are more examples the last 10 to 15 years that say the opposite.

 

Meanwhile:  The most prolific passers:  Rogers, Brees, Rivers, Luck, Ryan, Stafford, etc have barely sniffed the SB and combine for only 2 SB wins.  

Edited November 6, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

4 hours ago, MRM33064 said:

 

 

Pegula was so upset about Rex's ego that McD looked like a warm fuzzy blanket.  McD is exactly the WRONG guy to build a modern NFL team from scratch.

 

If this is true, I blame Doug Marrone.  Still.

[BillsSbSoon]

4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm having Deja Vu from the Dick Jauron era. 

They run the same defense, and have the same philosophical approach to football and how to build a team. 

 

Both guys valued character over talent. 

Its pretty scary how similar it is really. Right down to the "ill have to look at the tape" spiel every pc

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

 

You quoted a bunch of stuff not directed at you...lol.  So dont take it personal, I like your posts and you as a poster.

 

But, what about 2015?  Just 3 years ago.  Broncos won the SB with the worst QB's in the NFL that year in Manning and Brock during the regular season, and then won the big game with the worst QB performance in SB history for a winning QB.  

 

Flacco won the SB with mediocre offense a couple years before that.  Seattle won the SB and almost back to back with run first offense.  I meant this was all in the last handful of years.  Most SB's have been won on DEFENSE more than offense over the last 10 years.  Giants beat Pats TWICE...who had the most prolific offense in NFL history at that point with defense.  

 

I meant there are more examples the last 10 to 15 years that say the opposite.

Haha ya sorry I just accidentally quoted the whole thing lol. 

 

And true. But I will argue that 2015 and 2018 is a massive difference in terms of the rules for the offence. Even though it is only 3 years, things have changed so much.

 

And thanks Alpha, you as well! Always respect your posts and comments

Edited November 6, 2018 by billsfan11

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

McDermott personally identified and built just about the entire offense. The only holdovers are LeSean McCoy & Charles Clay. 

The QBs, the OCs (one already failed, one currently failing), 4 of the 5 starting OL, all of the WRs... McD picked all of them. 

 

The offense is HIS offense. This historically bad offense is the product of HIS management. 

 

 

 

Also, Mike Tolbert. 

 

 

 

You dont seem to know the difference of building and fielding.  The ONLY piece of the future they went out and got is Allen.  They have NOT begun the offensive rebuild.  But they STILL need to FIELD a team in the mean time.  Offensive rebuild rally starts this offseason.

[Commsvet11]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I totally agree with you on that.  And I am not saying McD will be good at that, I am making the case there is no way to know that today given the talent he has to work with this year and the injury to Allen.  

 

I will say he managed to take a bad offense to the playoffs last year, and during a year most thought we would win 5 games around here.  So he has earned the benefit of the doubt until the personnel gets better next year.  End of next season, if the offense is not vastly improved after investing in it this off season, then his seat will get hot.

 

You quoted a bunch of stuff not directed at you...lol.  So dont take it personal, I like your posts and you as a poster.

 

But, what about 2015?  Just 3 years ago.  Broncos won the SB with the worst QB's in the NFL that year in Manning and Brock during the regular season, and then won the big game with the worst QB performance in SB history for a winning QB.  

 

Flacco won the SB with mediocre offense a couple years before that.  Seattle won the SB and almost back to back with run first offense.  I mean this was all in the last handful of years.  Most SB's have-at least one team that isnt a prolific offense over the last 10 years, and several winners.  Giants beat Pats TWICE...who had the most prolific offense in NFL history at that point with defense.  

 

I meant there are more examples the last 10 to 15 years that say the opposite.

 

Meanwhile:  The most prolific passers:  Rogers, Brees, Rivers, Luck, Ryan, Stafford, etc have barely sniffed the SB and combine for only 2 SB wins.  

 I noticed you left out Brady. 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Haha ya sorry I just accidentally quoted the whole thing lol. 

 

And true. But I will argue that 2015 and 2018 is a massive difference in terms of the rules for the offence. Even though it is only 3 years, things have changed so much.

 

And thanks Alpha, you as well! Always respect your posts and comments

 

All good man, and I get where you are coming from, but I just dont think its as different as people think.  

Just now, Commsvet11 said:

 I noticed you left out Brady. 

 

 

What are you talking about, I have mentioned Brady a lot lol...read more than one post.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

20 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

I think people want to see McD like this at a press conference...

 

 

this would be refreshing and confidence-building for the fans, if not the team.  

[twoandfourteen]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You dont seem to know the difference of building and fielding.  The ONLY piece of the future they went out and got is Allen.  They have NOT begun the offensive rebuild.  But they STILL need to FIELD a team in the mean time.  Offensive rebuild rally starts this offseason.

 

So... trading a 3rd round pick for Kelvin Benjamin and trading UP for Zay Jones don't count? If you're correct (You're not) that these are just temporary players holding down roster spots, then McDermott should be fired for wasting picks and not recognizing the value of draft capital. 

 

You are literally making an even better case for McD & BB to be removed. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, twoandfourteen said:

 

So... trading a 3rd round pick for Kelvin Benjamin and trading UP for Zay Jones don't count? If you're correct (You're not) that these are just temporary players holding down roster spots, then McDermott should be fired for wasting picks and not recognizing the value of draft capital. 

 

You are literally making an even better case for McD & BB to be removed. 

 

 

 

Beane did not trade draft Zay Jones.  Beane is our GM spear heading our rebuild, so irrelevant.  Plus Zay is on an inept offense with an inept QB, hard to still judge his second year right now.

 

The ONLY reason they traded for KB...ONLY reason was because Bills shocked everyone and made a playoff push and they made a move to try and help that playoff push because Jordan couldn't get healthy.  Unfortunately, KB got hurt when he got here, but the move was about the playoff run and trying to bring some help midseason at WR, and starting WR's aren't often available mid season.  

 

So sorry, but you're off base here 

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Beane did not trade draft Zay Jones.  Beane is our GM spear heading our rebuild, so irrelevant.  Plus Zay is on an inept offense with an inept QB, hard to still judge his second year right now.

 

The ONLY reason they traded for KB...ONLY reason was because Bills shocked everyone and made a playoff push and they made a move to try and help that playoff push because Jordan couldn't get healthy.  Unfortunately, KB got hurt when he got here, but the move was about the playoff run and trying to bring some help midseason at WR, and starting WR's aren't often available mid season.  

 

So sorry, but you're off base here 

So they were tanking all along, but once they won a few games, they stopped tanking. Now that they suck, they're back to tanking. It's hard to keep up with these geniuses because they're so ahead of the curve.

 

Thank you for breaking it down.

[Commsvet11]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All good man, and I get where you are coming from, but I just dont think its as different as people think.  

 

What are you talking about, I have mentioned Brady a lot lol...read more than one post.

 

Prolific Passers

Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Luck, Ryan and Stafford. 

 

You didnt include Brady. 

 

Your thinking of building a defense first is just wrong, there have been many times that the bills fielded an excellent defense but it didn’t do any good and there is a decent defense right now it means nothing because we can’t score. 

 

Same problem last year only it’s much worse. 

 

This FO has just one year to fix the offense and it’s not going to happen with the resources and time they have. 

 

 

[twoandfourteen]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Beane did not trade draft Zay Jones.  Beane is our GM spear heading our rebuild, so irrelevant.  Plus Zay is on an inept offense with an inept QB, hard to still judge his second year right now.

 

The ONLY reason they traded for KB...ONLY reason was because Bills shocked everyone and made a playoff push and they made a move to try and help that playoff push because Jordan couldn't get healthy.  Unfortunately, KB got hurt when he got here, but the move was about the playoff run and trying to bring some help midseason at WR, and starting WR's aren't often available mid season.  

 

So sorry, but you're off base here 

 

See below.

 

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

So they were tanking all along, but once they won a few games, they stopped tanking. Now that they suck, they're back to tanking. It's hard to keep up with these geniuses because they're so ahead of the curve.

 

Thank you for breaking it down.

 

What he said.