McD - we do have wins, although they are not always on the scoreboard. Saw some Bills style football yesterday

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

The new regime has had two drafts to address the OL, and they created their own holes they needed to fill in trading Glenn and putting a high emphasis on MLB, rather than the OL in front of their handpicked QB.  You can rationalize the moves but the results speak for themselves. 

 

Wrong, the new regime is Beane and McD, which was here for one draft.  

[Ayjent]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong, the new regime is Beane and McD, which was here for one draft.  

McDermott was here for both, and I think that merits both Drafts for the new regime.  Please don't give me the technicality of Whaley as a lame duck GM.  

We'll see if everyone is right or wrong soon enough, but this year certainly wasn't what they anticipated, and I think people are kidding themselves if they truly thought they would struggle this bad this year. 

 

You'll come around eventually on how these guys are not the answer for either constructing or coaching this franchise into a perennial power in the AFC.  It's just a matter of time.  Then they'll be the scapegoats for the next regimes failures.

[twoandfourteen]

20 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

I'd agree. He wouldn't be the Mahomes we see, today, though.

 

a 1/2 Mahomes is still better than the "Full Peterman". 

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

3 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

a 1/2 Mahomes is still better than the "Full Peterman". 

 

 

The "Full Peterman" sounds like a wrestling move from the 80's... makes me wonder if Peterman has a future in the ring ?

[Buddo]

8 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

The "Full Peterman" sounds like a wrestling move from the 80's... makes me wonder if Peterman has a future in the ring ?

 

I assume you mean 3 ring circus, by ring.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

21 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

I assume you mean 3 ring circus, by ring.

Let's see how many potential career opportunities we can offer our boy, Nate. Lord knows he needs options!

[fridge]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:11 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

WHO CARES DUDE!  Beane...BEANE...BEANE is our GM NOW.  Not McD, Not Whaley...BEANE.  This rebuild is going to be led by him.  So stop reveling in the past as if its also the present, because its NOT.  

 

And Beane did a hell of a job in his first draft grabbing Allen, Edmunds, Taron, and Phillips.  Our HC is NOT our GM...repeat, our HC is NOT our GM.  Amazing how hard that is for some people to process.  

 

You mainlined the koolaide again, didn't you?

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, Ayjent said:

McDermott was here for both, and I think that merits both Drafts for the new regime.  Please don't give me the technicality of Whaley as a lame duck GM.  

We'll see if everyone is right or wrong soon enough, but this year certainly wasn't what they anticipated, and I think people are kidding themselves if they truly thought they would struggle this bad this year. 

 

You'll come around eventually on how these guys are not the answer for either constructing or coaching this franchise into a perennial power in the AFC.  It's just a matter of time.  Then they'll be the scapegoats for the next regimes failures.

 

Wrong.  McD is the HC, Beane is the GM.  One draft.  And McDs draft was headed by Whaleys team...all scouting, player research, etc over that year was ALL done by Whaleys team.  It is NOT the same.  Beane is the GM, NOT McD.  

[PolishDave]

23 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sorry, when your HC starts talking about "wins not always on the scoreboard", Stick a Fork in him.  He's Done.

 

The basic idea behind "The Process" is that you ultimately have no control over the outcome of games (or your future).   That is honestly their mindset.

Buying into "The Process" means you focus on improving yourself and your play a little bit each and every day/game and then let the future unfold as it chooses to according to fate.

 

That is why he is talking about things like "wins not always on the scoreboard".    He honestly doesn't buy into the idea that you and your team control your own ultimate destiny (neither short term or long term).   This is why he is stoic about wins and losses.   He believes wins are ultimately out of his control.    He just thinks if everybody gets incrementally better every day/game that the wins will automatically take care of themselves - but maybe not a Superbowl victory - because they can't control that.  It is up to fate.

 

I wish his philosophy was more like 100% all in on "The Process" in between games and preparing for them - but when it comes to games - your outcome is 99% under your control - the only thing that matters is winning the game (within the rules of course).

34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong.  McD is the HC, Beane is the GM.  One draft.  And McDs draft was headed by Whaleys team...all scouting, player research, etc over that year was ALL done by Whaleys team.  It is NOT the same.  Beane is the GM, NOT McD.  

 

I like your posts and can see why you have the opinion you do based on your paradigm of who is making the biggest personnel decisions about the Bills.

 

But I think you are wrong about it.

 

It was obvious right from day 1 of the McDermott hiring that the Pegulas were handing the reins of total control over to McDermott to decide his fate and the team's fate.    The biggest move McDermott made was getting his patsy hired (Beane).      If you honestly believe that Beane is the one telling McDermott which players McDermott is going to get for his team - then I think you are very mistaken.  

 

If Beane had been hired first and there had been as big of a deal made by the Pegulas about bringing him in to replace the Rex/Whaley regime, I might think different.   But it didn't happen that way.    Pegulas flushed the Rex toilet, bleached the bathroom and anointed McDermott king of the realm for his tenure here.  So much so in fact, that if McDermott wanted Beane gone, then Beane would be gone.   But if Beane wanted McDermott gone, Peguals would say - not a chance.       Beane was a McDermott hire and is his underling in terms of power structure.    Beane is merely doing whatever job duties McDermott has delegated to him - which I assume are probably most normal GM duties except the starting personnel hire and fire decisions.   No way McDermott gave up that power.

[iinii]

Moral victories are the best.

[PolishDave]

55 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong.  McD is the HC, Beane is the GM.  One draft.  And McDs draft was headed by Whaleys team...all scouting, player research, etc over that year was ALL done by Whaleys team.  It is NOT the same.  Beane is the GM, NOT McD.  

 

McDermott had to give his stamp of approval on every move Whaley made.

 

Whaley had to allow McDermott to have that control or else (I presume) Pegula would have fired him before the draft and just allowed McDermott to publicly call the shots.

 

Whaley (or any other lame duck GM) wouldn't be dumb enough to defy that power structure because he would immediately be blackballed by all of the owners in the NFL. He would never be allowed to work inside the NFL again.      These GM's and coaches know how the NFL works.    They play along if they hope to find new employment in the future anywhere inside the NFL.

 

Same thing happened when the previous GM left Buffalo.    It is a very political job that requires public manipulation.  I am quite sure the owners have a very nice good ole boy network whose policy keeps GM's and coaches out of the league who won't play along with a highly functional and highly profitable system.

 

Do you honestly believe McDermott didn't have to approve of every player personnel hiring or firing or drafting during Whaley's last 4 months on the job?   I think every one of those player personnel decisions was ultimately McDermott's decision.    Maybe someone else suggested the moves, but McDermott had to agree to it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This can replace Juarons ‘hard to win in the nfl’ by defining winning as ‘outside of the scoreboard’

 

[Perry Turtle]

15 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think it's been established they weren't going to pay him.

 

The point many have made is that they should've paid him. Hell, just pick up his option. I was scratching my head when they didn't even do that, and then when they traded him I knew these guys were just another group of "we are smarter then everyone" type. 

 

Those guys don't last long. 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that two of the top offensive minds in football felt they could use Watkins and one of them had no issues paying him $16 million a year. The guy who traded him away is fielding one of the worst offenses in the history of the game. 

The thing that bugs me most about the Watkins trade is the timing.  They could have made that deal at the deadline instead of preseason.

 

Who knows if they would have changed their minds, but seeing if Watkins could fit into the offense would have been better for the team.  And the market might have been better for Watkins after other teams played a few games (thinking of the first round pick Dallas gave up for Cooper).

[MDH]

McD has the numbers to back up his comments too.

 

He saw 5 guys give consoling pats on the back to teamates who had just failed.

He saw 3 guys go a step further and console their failing teamates with a hug.

And he saw 2 guys who, at the end of the game, were still trying, really, really hard.

 

All "wins" via Bills' standards in 2018.

[Billsfan1972]

54 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

The thing that bugs me most about the Watkins trade is the timing.  They could have made that deal at the deadline instead of preseason.

 

Who knows if they would have changed their minds, but seeing if Watkins could fit into the offense would have been better for the team.  And the market might have been better for Watkins after other teams played a few games (thinking of the first round pick Dallas gave up for Cooper).

Now let's hear how much better Cooper is then Watkins......

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

The basic idea behind "The Process" is that you ultimately have no control over the outcome of games (or your future).   That is honestly their mindset.

Buying into "The Process" means you focus on improving yourself and your play a little bit each and every day/game and then let the future unfold as it chooses to according to fate.

 

That is why he is talking about things like "wins not always on the scoreboard".    He honestly doesn't buy into the idea that you and your team control your own ultimate destiny (neither short term or long term).   This is why he is stoic about wins and losses.   He believes wins are ultimately out of his control.    He just thinks if everybody gets incrementally better every day/game that the wins will automatically take care of themselves - but maybe not a Superbowl victory - because they can't control that.  It is up to fate.

 

I wish his philosophy was more like 100% all in on "The Process" in between games and preparing for them - but when it comes to games - your outcome is 99% under your control - the only thing that matters is winning the game (within the rules of course).

 

I like your posts and can see why you have the opinion you do based on your paradigm of who is making the biggest personnel decisions about the Bills.

 

But I think you are wrong about it.

 

It was obvious right from day 1 of the McDermott hiring that the Pegulas were handing the reins of total control over to McDermott to decide his fate and the team's fate.    The biggest move McDermott made was getting his patsy hired (Beane).      If you honestly believe that Beane is the one telling McDermott which players McDermott is going to get for his team - then I think you are very mistaken.  

 

If Beane had been hired first and there had been as big of a deal made by the Pegulas about bringing him in to replace the Rex/Whaley regime, I might think different.   But it didn't happen that way.    Pegulas flushed the Rex toilet, bleached the bathroom and anointed McDermott king of the realm for his tenure here.  So much so in fact, that if McDermott wanted Beane gone, then Beane would be gone.   But if Beane wanted McDermott gone, Peguals would say - not a chance.       Beane was a McDermott hire and is his underling in terms of power structure.    Beane is merely doing whatever job duties McDermott has delegated to him - which I assume are probably most normal GM duties except the starting personnel hire and fire decisions.   No way McDermott gave up that power.

 

I hear what you are saying...HOWEVER

 

Im not saying it’s only Beane.  I’m saying it’s a team of Beane, his staff, and McD.  Others are falsely proclaiming that McD is in total control, which he most definitely is not.  People keep over exaggerating the first draft while ignoring the facts.

 

1 - Whaley was clearly on his way out given he was officially fired the day after.  Of course McD had more say, maybe even final say, in that draft as he just got here and Whaley was leaving.  Under no circumstance does that translate into McD having total control for the future.  

 

2 - McD in that first draft operated on information that was fully provided and collected by Whaley and his staff.  All future drafts now have information built off this regimes team and this regimes procedures and philosophies.  It’s astonishing how few people can’t seem to understand how significant that is.

 

So I totally respect you and your opinion, but I stand strongly by the fact that THIS regime has been here ONE draft.  It’s not even close to the same and Beane has way more input and influence over it than this board wants to believe.  Neither has total control, they are working together.  It’s the HC’s job to identify what he needs and it’s the GM’s job to find the players to fit those spots and manage the cap to acquire, sign, and retain the right players too.  It’s Beane and HIS team right now scouting for the draft, not McD.

 

In closing:  One Draft. ?

[thunderingsquid]

Good night, he is turning in to Jauron 2.0.  

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

McDermott had to give his stamp of approval on every move Whaley made.

 

Whaley had to allow McDermott to have that control or else (I presume) Pegula would have fired him before the draft and just allowed McDermott to publicly call the shots.

 

Whaley (or any other lame duck GM) wouldn't be dumb enough to defy that power structure because he would immediately be blackballed by all of the owners in the NFL. He would never be allowed to work inside the NFL again.      These GM's and coaches know how the NFL works.    They play along if they hope to find new employment in the future anywhere inside the NFL.

 

Same thing happened when the previous GM left Buffalo.    It is a very political job that requires public manipulation.  I am quite sure the owners have a very nice good ole boy network whose policy keeps GM's and coaches out of the league who won't play along with a highly functional and highly profitable system.

 

Do you honestly believe McDermott didn't have to approve of every player personnel hiring or firing or drafting during Whaley's last 4 months on the job?   I think every one of those player personnel decisions was ultimately McDermott's decision.    Maybe someone else suggested the moves, but McDermott had to agree to it.

 

You missed a very key point in my post.  McD, assuming he made all final decision, was still operating off of the scouting and intel of Whaley and his team.  

 

Big difference.  2nd, him having a lot of input, even final say, in that first draft does not mean he does moving forward.  Whaley was let go day after draft, so wouldn’t be shocking the one guy staying would have more input.  But that does not in any way shape or form mean he has final say moving forward.  

 

How anyone can think Beane isn’t clearly involved significantly is puzzling to me given how active he has been, and how active he’s been while McD was busy coaching.  

 

And...that first draft was pretty good, so why its even an issue is even more puzzling.  We got the next great corner in White, extra first round pick that turned into Edmunds, Milano, etc.