McD - we do have wins, although they are not always on the scoreboard. Saw some Bills style football yesterday

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The penalty yards came on two EJ Gaines pass intereference calls. Both bombs and very ticky-tacky.

 

You should probably leave the evaluations to those who actually watched the game.

 

As for the Bears - they will unquestionably be in the playoffs this year. Hence...contender.

I've watched every other game and probably 90% of all games since 1972 (as per my name).  The eyeball test is all that counts.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I've watched every other game and probably 90% of all games since 1972 (as per my name).  The eyeball test is all that counts.

 

Agreed. The Bills were run off the field by halftime. 

 

There are no moral victories in a 41-9 beat down. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by jrober38

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I've watched every other game and probably 90% of all games since 1972 (as per my name).  The eyeball test is all that counts.

 

How does the eyeball test apply to a game you never saw?

[BillsFan1988]

17 hours ago, jrober38 said:

No surprise here.

 

We have a HC who ignores the math, and wants to run the ball and play defense and likes punting on the opponents 40 yard line when it's 4th and short. 

 

Our HC has absolutely nothing in common with any of the top coaches you see around the NFL. 

 

This is Dick Jauron 2.0. 

His dream team is the teams on MNF yesterday the Cowboys and Titans.  We are building to play like them.

[jrober38]

Just now, BillsFan1988 said:

His dream team is the teams on MNF yesterday the Cowboys and Titans.  We are building to play like them.

 

I can see the connection to the Cowboys, but not the Titans. I think Vrabel is actually a forward thinking guy. 

 

One thing I'm sure of is that we're not trying to play like the Cheifs, Rams or Saints. Sean McDermott has not shown he wants to play football the way those coaches do. 

[BillsFan1988]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I can see the connection to the Cowboys, but not the Titans. I think Vrabel is actually a forward thinking guy. 

 

One thing I'm sure of is that we're not trying to play like the Cheifs, Rams or Saints. Sean McDermott has not shown he wants to play football the way those coaches do. 

Its really sad this team makes me feel sick. Iv'e been watching the Bills for over 30yrs never felt like this about them.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Are you serious???  Watkins had 982 yards (6 TDs) as a rookie, 1047 yards (9 TDs) in 2015, and 430 yards (2 TDs) in only 8 games in 2016.   So far in 2018, his 530 yards (3 TDs) in 9 games is almost as many yards as he had in 15 games (593 yards, 8 TDs) in  2017 which suggests he'll be around 1000 yards and 6 TDs once again. 

 

Claiming that the Bills don't miss him is just more of the typical BS you spew in defense of McDermott and Beane.  The Bills passing offense stunk last year without Watkins and with both Wood and Incognito playing all season but Glenn missing most of the season.   Watkins has as many TDs as the entire Bills passing offense has this whole season. 

 

As for the Bills not being able to "afford" Watkins, that's more bull manure.   With the lowest current salary level in the league, they certainly could have despite the self-inflicted dead cap money by creating a cap friendly new contract/extension like other teams do.  They simply didn't want to because McDermott and Beane have repeatedly demonstrated how much they value the passing game.

 

As for the lame claim that "but they used that 2nd rounder to get Josh Allen", that's plain stupid.  Watkins was traded after the first preseason game, which was long before there was any kind of clear picture of how good or bad the Bills would be and long before the collegiate football season.  If McDermott/Beane decided that they were going to draft a QB in 2018 in July without knowing the candidates and made trades to do that, that's simply either being too clueless to believe or it's "money ball" as its most sinister.

 

 

 

 

You seem to struggle with reading as your response isn’t accurate to what I said.  I even said I like Watkins...I didn’t say we didn’t miss him, I said he’s not worth $16m.  

 

I said we dont miss Glenn, we miss the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  Again, read better before you reply

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You seem to struggle with reading as your response isn’t accurate to what I said.  I even said I like Watkins...I didn’t say we didn’t miss him, I said he’s not worth $16m.  

 

I said we dont miss Glenn, we miss the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  Again, read better before you reply

That's the going rate......  Get used to it.  

 

I am convinces that with a healthy Watkins as TT's primary target, with any OC with a modicum of ability he would have easily had 80+ catches and 1,300+ yards last year.

 

Of course you'll argue otherwise and yes it is pure conjecture, but a lot of teams wanted him and he is a talent. 

35 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How does the eyeball test apply to a game you never saw?

What's next for you???? 

 

"The Bills forced a three & out in the fourth quarter, which impressed me"

"Peterman led a 6 play drive that stalled at the 50, great improvement"

"The Bills went almost the entire quarter without commiting a penalty, talk about discipline"

[Ayjent]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You seem to struggle with reading as your response isn’t accurate to what I said.  I even said I like Watkins...I didn’t say we didn’t miss him, I said he’s not worth $16m.  

 

I said we dont miss Glenn, we miss the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  Again, read better before you reply

I guess they don't miss Wood either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  I guess they don't miss Incognito either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  I'm just messing with you, and understand what you are trying to say, but they do miss Glenn - having another quality OL player would help, probably a lot.   They needed to upgrade the right side before McD and Beane got here and have a contingency plan to replace the strength of the line which was clearly getting long in the tooth other than Glenn.  That is one of the major issues I've had with the Offensive rebuild - one high pick to address all of that, and then basically nullifying that with trading away the only remaining good OL you have.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

I never said he'd be an MVP here.

 

But I'm 100% certain we'd have more than 3 TD passes all year and would be scoring a lot more than 10 points per game. 

I'd agree. He wouldn't be the Mahomes we see, today, though.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

12 hours ago, DRA3196 said:

It's merely speculation at this point and until McDermott has the tools he feels he needs to put his team on the field, we won't know until after the 2019 season anyways.

 

The same could have been said about Fisher and Fox with Goff and Trubisky, that they only had 1 year with them. But those organizations could see that those guys had outdated offenses and were not the right guys to develop the young QB's. We're in the same exact boat with McDermott. 

14 hours ago, Commsvet11 said:

 

And that’s another problem in itself. He is stuck with his OC. He can’t fire him and get a quality OC because he will be on the hot seat next year, any OC won’t take the risk of being dismissed after one year. 

 

Yup, it's really a mess with McDermott here. The best thing to do would be to can him and hire a head coach that we can be confident can develop, or at least give Allen the best shot to develop, in a modern offense. 

14 hours ago, MJS said:

 

That's a good principle, but that's not really what happens. Guys have an expertise in a certain background and then try to find experts to run the other side.

 

A head coach will provide overall direction and leadership for the team, but if a coach does not have a background on one side, he will not be intricately involved in the play calling and logistics of that side of the ball. How and why would he?

 

But yes, ultimately he is responsible for either side failing. But the answer isn't for McDermott to start learning how to call plays on offense and develop logistics, it is to find someone who already is an expert (an innovative offensive coordinator).

 

If McDermott does not find an offensive coordinator, he'll be fired eventually. But the failings on offense fall directly on the current players first, the offensive coordinator second, and only indirectly on the shoulders of McDermott (in my opinion).

 

There's a difference between being involved and being "intricately" involved in specific play calling. The head coach should have a vision on the style of play that both sides of the ball are going to have. That should be the qualification for a head coach, and the ones who are successful long-term do have that. Successful head coaches are going to go through coaching changes because coordinators are going to get poached from them, but they remain successful because the coordinators are an extension of them. 

 

What you're describing is honestly ridiculous, especially the last part. As if the Pegulas should go to McDermott after this year and say, "Hey, don't worry about the offense this year, that's not your primary concern, just keep swinging away at finding an offensive coordinator, maybe 3rd time's the charm. You just do what you do on defense, the offense is on them". 

 

The offense does fall directly and primarily on McDermott first. He's the head coach. He needs to know what he wants from the offense and hire the right coach to develop and run it. The fact that he's failed at this twice already and we've lost 2 whole seasons of potential development already is incredibly alarming. 

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

I'd agree. He wouldn't be the Mahomes we see, today, though.

 

Sure, but he'd probably have at least 10-12 TD passes. 

 

Imagine how much better we'd be if we could score around 20 points a week instead of 10 with multiple turnovers. 

[Soda Popinski]

wow so we're down to moral victories in a 41-9 loss.    that's not good. 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Hue Jackson talked a lot about "What it means to play Cleveland Browns Football." I actually like McD, but always cringe whenever I hear a coach talking about playing "[Team Name] Football." It's almost always teams in the basement that say these things.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Yeah...I think I might be over this guy....

 

Dan Fetes‏ @danfetes 3m3 minutes ago

More

"We do have wins, although they're not always on the scoreboard... in the midst of a game, I saw some things yesterday that is the Buffalo Bills style of football we want to play." -Sean McDermott

 

I'm sorry, when your HC starts talking about "wins not always on the scoreboard", Stick a Fork in him.  He's Done.

[KGun12TD]

UGH! He's done...the process is Broken. Looking forward to the next coach.

[Bill from NYC]

22 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

True—Rexy built us a real “bully” until we took the field. We also had Santa Clause, aka Rob Ryan, as a defensive wizard which was great. What rotten coaching luck we’ve had through the years!

True. Rex was going to play "smash-mouth" defense and we would be "bullies."  Then, he sent Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus into pass coverage. On other plays he had Dareus dance at the LOS while waving his hands. He looked like a 350 pound man at a Grateful Dead Concert.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

That's the going rate......  Get used to it.  

 

I am convinces that with a healthy Watkins as TT's primary target, with any OC with a modicum of ability he would have easily had 80+ catches and 1,300+ yards last year.

 

Of course you'll argue otherwise and yes it is pure conjecture, but a lot of teams wanted him and he is a talent. 

What's next for you???? 

 

You're mistaken...I am a Sammy Watkins fan.  I felt last year he could have had a big year with TT if he stayed healthy too.  I predicted similar numbers even.  

 

What I have said here is that there was NO WAY we were paying him anything close to what he got, nor has he really put up any numbers that warrant $16M a year.  Even IF I believe he could have had an 80 catch, 1300+ yard season...he still has never done it and still has just 1 season with 1000 yards and put up less than 500 yards on an explosive offense last year.  If I am paying a guy $16M a year to play WR he better be in the top 3 statistically, thats crazy Elite numbers.  

 

On a personal level, I still feel Sammy has the talent to get there.  On a football business level, he has openly stated he wasnt the best teammate here.  So Bills had a guy who wasnt a great teammate with a new regime that didn't draft him and only seen him be mostly hurt for previous 2 years.  Not a chance there were going to be willing to pay him what he would command on open market, and I now agree with them given he got $16M which is nuts, even though I am a Sammy Fan.  

 

Getting rid of Sammy was a GREAT move for ONE REASON only.  They were 100% going to lose him for nothing.  Not to mention, Beane even stated it was clear they likely won't be able to retain him and that Sammy and his agent had their eyes on a big deal somewhere else.  So Beane got us a key draft pick and a good player that helped us make the playoffs last year.  And that extra pick contributed to us landing not one, but TWO of our targeted first round players this year in both Allen and Edmunds.  

 

This notion they just got rid of him to get rid of him is completely false.  They didn't have a choice.  The one thing they could have done different was pick up his option, but at that point he wasnt even healthy yet, so hard to fault them there even though I personally would have picked the 5th year option up.  

5 hours ago, Ayjent said:

I guess they don't miss Wood either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  I guess they don't miss Incognito either, just the collective of losing 3 former Pro Bowl OL at one time.  I'm just messing with you, and understand what you are trying to say, but they do miss Glenn - having another quality OL player would help, probably a lot.   They needed to upgrade the right side before McD and Beane got here and have a contingency plan to replace the strength of the line which was clearly getting long in the tooth other than Glenn.  That is one of the major issues I've had with the Offensive rebuild - one high pick to address all of that, and then basically nullifying that with trading away the only remaining good OL you have.

 

I cant stress this enough...you cant rebuild everything in ONE offseason.  Beane was here ONE draft.  In that draft he traded up in the first round for TWO players in Allen and Edmunds.  He also still landed Taron and Phillips, two promising young players themselves.  People act like they could have just got the QB of the future, the defensive anchor for the next decade and also 5 new OL starters in the same draft.  

 

The unexpected retirement of both Wood and Incognito created two big holes for sure, but they weren't bigger than QB and Edmunds was a special talent at another major hole too.  Had they gone OL and the D and QB still sucked, everyone would be B*tching they didn't draft a QB or they didn't draft a LB.  

 

There is literally no winning here...they had a finite number of picks, almost no cap room and they fielded the best team they could while also going after potential franchise changing players in Allen and Edmunds.  This board would be calling EVERYDAY (like it is now) for Beane and McD to be fired if they didnt draft a QB this year.  And if our D sucked because we had no LBs, this board would be calling for them to be fired too saying "He cant even get the D right" if we passed on Edmunds.  

 

This season was always a lose lose for them with the fans...why...becasue they didn't have enough cap space or draft picks to fix all the big issues and this fan base is too impatient and blind to realize we have only just begun this rebuild and that the offense will be heavily addressed this offseason.

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sorry, when your HC starts talking about "wins not always on the scoreboard", Stick a Fork in him.  He's Done.

 

My thought process with McD has been:

 

1.) Was not happy trading down in 2017. I wanted Mahomes or Trubisky, not happy with that trade at all.

2.) He overachieved last year with a roster that had a lot of holes and was low on overall talent

3.) The team played hard for him

4.) Tre White is great, but boy drafting the QB in 17 could have opened up other positions in 18's draft for us

5.) Question Daboll hiring and Dave Culley

6.) Understand Daboll will be good for presumably developing a young QB since he has college and NFL experience

7.) Still not sure why a WR coach is coaching a to be drafted rookie QB

8.) Did we really build the defense up at the expense of the offense when we planned on taking a rookie QB in round 1

9.) Oh no the wrong Josh

10.) Peterman is not only on the roster, he's the starter

11.) Oh no, oh no , oh no

12.) It's hard to win in the NFL

13.) Wins not on scoreboard

14.) Bills football

15.) Ship is sailing away from the port and do not see a reason to turn back

[Ayjent]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You're mistaken...I am a Sammy Watkins fan.  I felt last year he could have had a big year with TT if he stayed healthy too.  I predicted similar numbers even.  

 

What I have said here is that there was NO WAY we were paying him anything close to what he got, nor has he really put up any numbers that warrant $16M a year.  Even IF I believe he could have had an 80 catch, 1300+ yard season...he still has never done it and still has just 1 season with 1000 yards and put up less than 500 yards on an explosive offense last year.  If I am paying a guy $16M a year to play WR he better be in the top 3 statistically, thats crazy Elite numbers.  

 

On a personal level, I still feel Sammy has the talent to get there.  On a football business level, he has openly stated he wasnt the best teammate here.  So Bills had a guy who wasnt a great teammate with a new regime that didn't draft him and only seen him be mostly hurt for previous 2 years.  Not a chance there were going to be willing to pay him what he would command on open market, and I now agree with them given he got $16M which is nuts, even though I am a Sammy Fan.  

 

Getting rid of Sammy was a GREAT move for ONE REASON only.  They were 100% going to lose him for nothing.  Not to mention, Beane even stated it was clear they likely won't be able to retain him and that Sammy and his agent had their eyes on a big deal somewhere else.  So Beane got us a key draft pick and a good player that helped us make the playoffs last year.  And that extra pick contributed to us landing not one, but TWO of our targeted first round players this year in both Allen and Edmunds.  

 

This notion they just got rid of him to get rid of him is completely false.  They didn't have a choice.  The one thing they could have done different was pick up his option, but at that point he wasnt even healthy yet, so hard to fault them there even though I personally would have picked the 5th year option up.  

 

I cant stress this enough...you cant rebuild everything in ONE offseason.  Beane was here ONE draft.  In that draft he traded up in the first round for TWO players in Allen and Edmunds.  He also still landed Taron and Phillips, two promising young players themselves.  People act like they could have just got the QB of the future, the defensive anchor for the next decade and also 5 new OL starters in the same draft.  

 

The unexpected retirement of both Wood and Incognito created two big holes for sure, but they weren't bigger than QB and Edmunds was a special talent at another major hole too.  Had they gone OL and the D and QB still sucked, everyone would be B*tching they didn't draft a QB or they didn't draft a LB.  

 

There is literally no winning here...they had a finite number of picks, almost no cap room and they fielded the best team they could while also going after potential franchise changing players in Allen and Edmunds.  This board would be calling EVERYDAY (like it is now) for Beane and McD to be fired if they didnt draft a QB this year.  And if our D sucked because we had no LBs, this board would be calling for them to be fired too saying "He cant even get the D right" if we passed on Edmunds.  

 

This season was always a lose lose for them with the fans...why...becasue they didn't have enough cap space or draft picks to fix all the big issues and this fan base is too impatient and blind to realize we have only just begun this rebuild and that the offense will be heavily addressed this offseason.

The new regime has had two drafts to address the OL, and they created their own holes they needed to fill in trading Glenn and putting a high emphasis on MLB, rather than the OL in front of their handpicked QB.  You can rationalize the moves but the results speak for themselves.