McDermott shouldn't have messed around with a QB competition over the Summer

[US Egg]

It was the arrogant process of McClapper McBeane, nothing more, nothing less, that created this QB and offensive culture of a mess. 

 

The players and coaches on the offense are a mere subset and offshoot of the terribly poor decisions made by the HC and GM. 

 

They had since the end of January to address the Woods & Incognito void and from the end of March to replace Taylor.

 

The results on the field speak to how well they did in doing so. The have demonstrated one thing, they're novices. 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by I am the egg man

[Luka]

I like how people are referencing how AJ wasn't good in preseason. Well Nate was amazing in preseason. Maybe preseason doesn't mean jack ***** and we should've stuck with the plan and started AJ instead of trading him. Let him play to the bye, if he sucked you could've started Allen after the bye. Peterman should've never been apart of this plan, they saw what he was last year. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

If Peterman wasn't the obvious starter after the preseason than you should just never have position competitions. 

 

That would also mean, though, that you are telling the locker room that no matter how well you plan (or how poorly you play), you will never win the job (or lose the job).  

 

You really disincentivize competition that way. 

[blacklabel]

In that Buffalo News interview with Beane, he stated how difficult it is to run a three-man QB competition. At the end of the day, there just aren't enough reps to go around. And I agree, they shouldn't have tinkered with it for so long. They first should've identified their #3 guy, that way they have their scout team arm and they don't have to worry much about that guy getting first team reps. And then your remaining two battle it out. A two-man competition is easier to work with as you can split reps equally if you want.

 

Peterman is fools gold. He played well in the pre-season. He was accurate, he was quick with where he wanted to go with it and got rid of it fast. But that came against teams playing very basic defense. Once the real games start being played and teams start disguising coverages and throwing a ton of different looks, it doesn't take long for Peterman to make a mistake and then get in his own head. The Hail Mary attempt at the end of the 1st half against the Bears is a perfect example. I mean, are you kidding? You think you're gonna make it to the end zone from that far away? Toss it up. You have two 6'4"-6'5" receivers down there, who cares if it gets picked, the half was over. 

 

They should've done what Beane regrets not doing earlier and that was sign a vet backup/gap starter type QB. Or just toss the keys to Allen and let him get the experience.

 

I understand that one of McDermott's main coaching points is "competition makes everyone better" but what he needs to get better at is deciding when to call it on a competition. The OL this season is an example of him waiting too long to name his starters. I don't think that had anything to do with a "competitive advantage" over any opponents, to keep it under wraps who your starting five OL are. But all pre-season they rotated Groy and Bodine, and then they would switch Ducasse back and forth between LG and RG, Miller competed against Teller and Boettger but I'm sure it was clear from the start that Miller would be the starter given his experience. They seem to love Conor McDermott and he took reps from Mills and from all accounts, got his behind handed to him on a regular basis in camp. Teller shows a lot of strength but his main struggles lie with the X's and O's of an NFL offensive scheme. But, McDermott can't wait until one week before the regular season to name his starting five OL. That should be wrapped up by the third pre-season game at the latest. OLs need time to form chemistry and get on the same page. The reason there were so many breakdowns in protection earlier this season likely had a lot to do with the fact that those guys just didn't have that many reps together. Believe it or not, the OL has actually improved. Their pass blocking was pretty solid against the Bears. Run blocking... eh... I mean, any time teams see Shady in the backfield they're gonna stack the box and they've all been able to shut him down. Chris Ivory's north-south style has actually been a better fit. I know Beane just said they have Shady in their plans for 2019 but if the guy never gets going this season, I wonder if he asks for a trade in the off-season. 

 

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they went into this season knowing that they weren't going to be very good. However, I'm certain they did not expect to suffer so many blowouts. That type of losing is just demoralizing for a team. You can see it happen, too. Early in the game, they keep it close but then mistakes happen and bounces go their opponents way and before you know it, things are out of hand. Then guys go into self-preservation mode, playing not to get injured because who wants to get hurt when you're not really playing for anything but pride? I think in that sense is where McDermott could "lose the team." I think this roster generally buys into what McDermott's message is and veterans on the team like Kyle and Lorax are gonna demand their teammates give 100% but inevitably, we'll see some guys out there half-assin' it *cough* Kelvin Benjamin *cough*

 

On the bright side, you can only sink so low before you start to rise again. So, here's hoping for a big, productive off-season and a fired up team in 2019.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, peterpan said:

People don't want to admit it but Allen, mentally, is terrible.  That's why he couldn't beat out Nate Peterman in practice.  

 

The real problem this team had was not making a Vet QB a priority in what is now two off seasons, but specifically last off-season.  If you recall there were like 8 QB needy teams.  Each and every one pursued the good vet QBs.  Minny, Denver, Ariz, NYJets(signed two guys), Washington.... They all went out and we're active in pursuing guys.  The Bills sat back and took the crap leftovers!!!! Seriously we were the LAST team to sign a guy!!!  

 

This deliberate mistake was compounded when we drafted the BIGGEST QB project since Tebow. 

 

Now our gm says his mistake was not bringing in Anderson sooner.....

 

Ummm...

 

What????

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Bolt/Wonderlic-scores-revealed-for-top-quarterback-prospects-in-2018-NFL-Draft-116830596/Amp/

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

We were in the game because our defense played out of their minds.

 

Josh Allen was the worst player we had on the field. 

 

Yet he did what he needed to to get us in range to win the game. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I’m not sure what cap implications were, but I was very opposed to trading of Tyrod at the time. 

 

He was a serviceable bridge that resulted in occasional watchability and light years ahead of the other dolt they inexplicably kept on the roster.

 

i mean how hard must it be to achieve the worst QB in NFL history? 

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Yet he did what he needed to to get us in range to win the game. 

 

I don't take that as a positive. Not blowing the game shouldn't be the only barometer for success. 

 

Any competent QB should have had us up at least two scores given how many sacks and turnovers the defense generated. 

 

He was the biggest reason we weren't winning when he got hurt. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

I don't take that as a positive. Not blowing the game shouldn't be the only barometer for success. 

 

Any competent QB should have had us up at least two scores given how many sacks and turnovers the defense generated. 

 

He was the biggest reason we weren't winning when he got hurt. 

 

You're really grasping at straws now. 

[John from Riverside]

I think trading AJM was a mistake

 

but

 

I also think behind this offensive line he would have gotten hurt anyway

 

I am rewatching the game on my nflgamepass.....and watching Shady actually get bounced off his OWN LINEMEN trying to run up inside and back into the backfield is comical....its really bad....the problem with this team starts right there....it does not end there but it starts there

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I think trading AJM was a mistake

 

but

 

I also think behind this offensive line he would have gotten hurt anyway

 

I am rewatching the game on my nflgamepass.....and watching Shady actually get bounced off his OWN LINEMEN trying to run up inside and back into the backfield is comical....its really bad....the problem with this team starts right there....it does not end there but it starts there

We have the least amount salary invested in offensive line by any team in the NFL and it's not really close. Lots of upgrades needed, but oline has to be much better if significant improvement is going to be possible.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Luka said:

I like how people are referencing how AJ wasn't good in preseason. Well Nate was amazing in preseason. Maybe preseason doesn't mean jack ***** and we should've stuck with the plan and started AJ instead of trading him. Let him play to the bye, if he sucked you could've started Allen after the bye. Peterman should've never been apart of this plan, they saw what he was last year. 

 

No, we never should have brought AJ in as our vet/mentor QB.

 

Trading Taylor before FA started without a viable replacement was mistake #1.

 

Then mistake #2 was sitting on our hands as vet QBs with significant starting experience like Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, Keenum, and Cousins were all snatched up KNOWING (as we can pretty much see noe that they did) that the plan was going to be to sit our rookie and let him learn from our vet was McBeane's dumbest mistake, and it now looks possible it could get one or both fired.

 

And then they compounded the issue by trading McCarron without immediately bringing Anderson in. Mistake #3.

 

Naming Peterman the starting QB.  Mistake #4.

 

And that's just offseason mistakes. 

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

If Peterman wasn't the obvious starter after the preseason than you should just never have position competitions. 

 

That would also mean, though, that you are telling the locker room that no matter how well you plan (or how poorly you play), you will never win the job (or lose the job).  

 

You really disincentivize competition that way. 

 

Except that while Peterman's stats looked great in the preseason AND he looked fine doing what he was asked to do, he wasn't really making the challenging NFL throws he'd have to make during the regular season.

 

Allen was. 

 

Players understand they aren't evaluated by stats, otherwise guys like Rod Streater and Brandon Reilly would be on the team.

 

One of the biggest differences in the preseason was that Allen's stats suffered because his WRs couldn't catch while Peterman's stats were buoyed by defenders who couldn't catch...

Edited November 6, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, blacklabel said:

In that Buffalo News interview with Beane, he stated how difficult it is to run a three-man QB competition. At the end of the day, there just aren't enough reps to go around. And I agree, they shouldn't have tinkered with it for so long. They first should've identified their #3 guy, that way they have their scout team arm and they don't have to worry much about that guy getting first team reps. And then your remaining two battle it out. A two-man competition is easier to work with as you can split reps equally if you want.

 

Peterman is fools gold. He played well in the pre-season. He was accurate, he was quick with where he wanted to go with it and got rid of it fast. But that came against teams playing very basic defense. Once the real games start being played and teams start disguising coverages and throwing a ton of different looks, it doesn't take long for Peterman to make a mistake and then get in his own head. The Hail Mary attempt at the end of the 1st half against the Bears is a perfect example. I mean, are you kidding? You think you're gonna make it to the end zone from that far away? Toss it up. You have two 6'4"-6'5" receivers down there, who cares if it gets picked, the half was over. 

 

They should've done what Beane regrets not doing earlier and that was sign a vet backup/gap starter type QB. Or just toss the keys to Allen and let him get the experience.

 

I understand that one of McDermott's main coaching points is "competition makes everyone better" but what he needs to get better at is deciding when to call it on a competition. The OL this season is an example of him waiting too long to name his starters. I don't think that had anything to do with a "competitive advantage" over any opponents, to keep it under wraps who your starting five OL are. But all pre-season they rotated Groy and Bodine, and then they would switch Ducasse back and forth between LG and RG, Miller competed against Teller and Boettger but I'm sure it was clear from the start that Miller would be the starter given his experience. They seem to love Conor McDermott and he took reps from Mills and from all accounts, got his behind handed to him on a regular basis in camp. Teller shows a lot of strength but his main struggles lie with the X's and O's of an NFL offensive scheme. But, McDermott can't wait until one week before the regular season to name his starting five OL. That should be wrapped up by the third pre-season game at the latest. OLs need time to form chemistry and get on the same page. The reason there were so many breakdowns in protection earlier this season likely had a lot to do with the fact that those guys just didn't have that many reps together. Believe it or not, the OL has actually improved. Their pass blocking was pretty solid against the Bears. Run blocking... eh... I mean, any time teams see Shady in the backfield they're gonna stack the box and they've all been able to shut him down. Chris Ivory's north-south style has actually been a better fit. I know Beane just said they have Shady in their plans for 2019 but if the guy never gets going this season, I wonder if he asks for a trade in the off-season. 

 

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they went into this season knowing that they weren't going to be very good. However, I'm certain they did not expect to suffer so many blowouts. That type of losing is just demoralizing for a team. You can see it happen, too. Early in the game, they keep it close but then mistakes happen and bounces go their opponents way and before you know it, things are out of hand. Then guys go into self-preservation mode, playing not to get injured because who wants to get hurt when you're not really playing for anything but pride? I think in that sense is where McDermott could "lose the team." I think this roster generally buys into what McDermott's message is and veterans on the team like Kyle and Lorax are gonna demand their teammates give 100% but inevitably, we'll see some guys out there half-assin' it *cough* Kelvin Benjamin *cough*

 

On the bright side, you can only sink so low before you start to rise again. So, here's hoping for a big, productive off-season and a fired up team in 2019.

 

This is an excellent post

[Scott7975]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:44 AM, jrober38 said:

 

We were in the game because our defense played out of their minds.

 

Josh Allen was the worst player we had on the field. 

He might not have been a good QB, but he was far from the worst player we had on the field.  Come on man.

[Wayne Arnold]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:18 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

We had Nate Peterman, who is awful, was awful and always will be awful (but is apparently related to McDermott), AJ McCarron, who was our supposed "vet QB" with a mere handful of NFL starts in his career, and the 6'5, 240 lb, athletic, smart, rocket armed rookie you just traded up to draft at #7.

 

How the friggin hell do you not just make the OBVIOUS choice... and Allen WAS the OBVIOUS choice of that brilliant trio.

 

What pisses me off the most about this offseason is the stupid Summer QB competition that took valuable reps away from Allen when he was inevitably going to start very quickly based on what we had at QB.

 

You allow him to get a bit more comfortable with his OL and his WRs. Maybe we win another game and see him progressing. Maybe he doesn't get injured. 

 

Who knows?

 

(And yeah, sure, you could argue it could go the other way, but friggin Peterman and McCarron were the alternatives)

 

Everyone likes to point to the Mahomes model in KC as the logic behind their thought process over the Summer, but if the Chiefs didn't have Alex Smith, Mahomes would have started year 1 and probably would have been just fine.

 

Plus, our Alex Smith to start the season (for at least the 1st half of the 1st game ) was Nate Peterman because the guy it was supposed to be wound up sucking so much we traded him to the Raiders for a 5th.

 

I hope this works out for McBeane because I like them, but everything, absolutely everything about how they handled the QB situation over the Summer was all wrong.

 

And ya know what, it seems like it's all stemming from the same ridiculous conservatism that we see in McDermott's in-game coaching.

 

All we can do is hope they got Allen right and save their butts that way.

 

But for God's sake, can we just get Allen back so games are relatively interesting again and I'm not entertaining myself watching Peterman to the tune of Yakety Sax in my head?

 

Once Allen is healthy and the UCL in his elbow is no longer at risk of getting worse if he plays, he needs to play.

 

 

[Fadingpain]

Mike Schopp has been harping on the OP's point for months.

 

Allen should have been the Day 1 starter, that should have been known months ago, and there should not have been a QB competition.

 

I was fully on board with that as well and have consistently written as much for months around here too.

 

I don't think it would have advanced Allen's play much beyond where it is, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been the right choice.

 

 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Mike Schopp has been harping on the OP's point for months.

 

Allen should have been the Day 1 starter, that should have been known months ago, and there should not have been a QB competition.

 

I was fully on board with that as well and have consistently written as much for months around here too.

 

I don't think it would have advanced Allen's play much beyond where it is, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been the right choice.

 

 

 

I disagree with this.

What the Bills should have done was sign a real QB and give Allen a redshirt year. 

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Except that I was saying Allen would (and should) have been our starter since the end of May.  May 21st, actually.

 

That day, before the QB competition was even really underway, I said:

 

Allen is obviously the choice of this regime long term. Beane has questioned publicly the media perception of Allen as "raw." Dabol said he has a plan for him and was said to be on him like white on rice all rookie minicamp.

 

It just feels inevitable that the most talented QB who's already the Apple of McBeane's Eyes will win the starting job against one scrub with a noodle arm and one QB with some potential, 4 years on the bench and a handful of quality NFL starts, but also a guy who made it through the 1st wave of Free Agency before Beane finally settling on him.

 

The physical ability is there. The smarts are there. The experience under center is there. The work ethic is there.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I vastly overestimated McDermott's ability to evaluate QBs and learn from his previous mistakes... AKA: THE 2017 CHARGERS GAME!!!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I disagree with this.

What the Bills should have done was sign a real QB and give Allen a redshirt year. 

I think that’s an idea that sounds better than the reality. 

 

The Browns traded for Tyrod Taylor to play in front of Mayfield. That lasted 2 games.

 

The Cardinals went out and spent $20MM on Bradford, and that lasted 2 games.

 

Beane was recently quoted as saying he made a mistake not getting Anderson in Buffalo sooner. We’ve seen 6 TO’s and 0 TDs out of Anderson before he was hurt, so no reason to think that would have gone any better.

 

So that leaves Teddy Bridgewater, paying a mint for Kirk Cousins, or outbidding the Broncos for Case Keenum.

 

We could pick up Landry Jones.

 

A poster smartly pointed out Nick Foles last season, and I can’t argue that. But unless you have a Josh McCown , I think a “veteran presence” most of the time is a waste of time. It’s an idea that sounds better than it is. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Straight Hucklebuck

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I disagree with this.

What the Bills should have done was sign a real QB and give Allen a redshirt year. 

 

That's fine.

 

I can see, and even agree with that point.

 

But what "real QB" are you talking about who wouldn't have been relatively quickly unseated by Allen?

 

Cousins seems about the only QB who might have come in and held the reins for the entire year.

 

Bradford got benched in Arizona.

 

McCown & Bridgewater couldn't beat out Darnold, who hasn't looked very good.

 

Keenum in Denver looks pretty awful.

 

And obviously Taylor got benched in Cleveland, though I think he might have lasted a little longer as the starter.

 

So, other than forking out $100 million for Cousins as your "real QB" option and drafting Allen--a situation that will never happen for any NFL team--who is your "real QB?"

 

Are you now thus conceding that even bothering with a QB competition between Allen, McCarron, and Peterman was an absolute joke?