I realize that ppl don’t want to hear this but the plan looks like....

[BillsVet]

37 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The cap space and especially the draft picks will help quite a bit, but imo they will need 2 years to contend. This team is as bad as one can imagine on offense, and some of our best defenders are old.

 

I think the team can be turned around, but not in 1 season. Not when a team is THIS bad.

 

The cap space they should have isn't a bad thing, but I think you're correct here in that it won't be the solution to most of the team's problems.  And I'm not enamored with the offensive draft prospects in 2019, so it could very well be 2 years before they're playoff caliber.

 

McCoach is saying the right things, specifically his comments yesterday on WGR about high scoring teams and their success.  Whether he matches personnel decisions and organizational strategy to these comments is another thing.  He's a Jim Johnson guy and has grown up in the defensive world, so expecting him over one off-season to embrace offense would be surprising to me.  He's going to prioritize defense no matter what and that comes at the expense of developing a modern offense.

[jrober38]

15 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

FWIW- I was on the record for 2 wins- that looks like a real possibility. No one should really be surprised where we are at except the abysmal offensively offensive offense.

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

[Beans Dream]

100% agree with the OP.  It’s hard to live through, but it’s pretty obvious this was a rebuild.  After the off-season moves they made you’d be delusional to think this team was a contender.  Heck they pretty much came right out and said what they were doing.  Again it’s hard to watch the team you love get beat up week in and week out, but at least there is a strategy... mortgage the future for a franchise QB and build around him.  

 

They swung for the fences which so many of us have been asking them to do for years, now we have to patiently wait to see if the plan pays off long term.

 

I for one, have an opinion on the picks and moves they have made, but am willing to withhold judgment for at least a year.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

40 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I can't agree with this 100%. If the bpa happens to be in the secondary, I would pass. Allen is young and needs tools and big time protection. I would, for this particular team, even draft a freaking RB before another corner. We both know who they passed on and took a corner 2 years ago.

 

.

Bill, please, no RBs in the first round. Has Saquon Barkley helped the Giants turn the corner ? OTOH, Mack is putting the Bears in a different defensive league. RB are a luxury pick. Unless you are stacked on both sides of the ball, you never ever pick a RB in the first round. MCGahee....

Edited November 6, 2018 by Fan in Chicago

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Sad thing is that, despite the repeated spin put by John , Alpha and others, much of this incompetence is self inflicted. Any one can excuse a single move made by the FO but in entirety, it is a mess. Whaley was let go primarily because he could not build a winning team. Seeing how they paid such low attention to the offense, I have no confidence that this FO is phililosophically any better. The flip side to the 'give them time' plea is that by the time the offense is any good, the D would have slid. 

 

I just don't buy this logic that the cupboard was bare and needed a complete oberhaul. Plenty of examples around the league where new coaches have turned around a franchise in <2 years. The disaster we are seeing as a follow up to a playoff season is an utter inexcusable debacle. 

I believe it could be enough if he has a true #1 and a speedster to complement him. 

I have said since the beginning of the McDermott reign that the stated plan was to dramatically overhaul the roster and restructure the cap. That is exactly what they have been doing and are doing. You can disagree with the strategy but regardless that is the road that has been taken. In two years where is this team situated? While involved in the implementing their strategy in the first year in their tenure this regime made the playoffs with a non-playoff caliber of team. Are you going to complain about the breaking of that embarrassing and ignominious record? 

 

After the first year this regime maneuvered to draft what we hope to be our franchise qb. Will he attain that status? None of us knows for sure but I believe with the right support he will be. Are you going to complain about that considering that the Bills haven't had a legitimate franchise qb in a quarter century. 

 

The McBeane duo decided to restructure the cap in an accelerated fashion instead of stretching it out over years. In that way they would be able to clean the cap slate and have more flexibility to acquire free agents. That is the reason why this roster, especially on the OL and receiving unit, couldn't meaningfully be addressed this year. Because of that strategy there was a unanimity from NFL analysts that this was going to be a tough year for the Bills. The reason why there was unanimity from analysts as to how this season was going to unfold was because they understood the course of action this organization was taking. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but it is not difficult to understand why this team is struggling this year. You may disagree with the declared strategy but that doesn't alter the reality that that is the road that they took. To put it in simple terms: It is a rebuild. Did you expect an instantaneous result? 

 

Entering the offseason the Bills have a copious amount of cap money to add players. In addition, they have a full complement of draft picks. Without a doubt we will be drafting near the top of the board. My preference is to trade down and acquire additional picks to add more players. If this regime smartly handles their resources I'm counting on an infusion of talent to bolster this roster. The big question determining future success  for us as it is for the Jets and Browns is the development of their rookie qbs. On that issue we just have to wait and see. 

 

I understand what this regime is attempting to do, and I agree with it. Most of the doubters are looking at what is going on from a year to year perspective. That's more of a Whaley perspective of incremental change. That's the source of our divergence. I'm much more confident of our prospects in the not too distant future than those who are panicked by what has transpired on the field this year. 

[May Day 10]

i would be on board with that if they werent so stinking old.  

 

In the draft with all the QBs, they shouldnt have held onto McCoy, Taylor, Williams, Lorax, Wood, Incognito, etc.  They would have had the pick of the litter and not be forced to squander draft assets (and probably have even more with the McCoy trade).  This bottoming out is a year late and unnecessary.  

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Sad thing is that, despite the repeated spin put by John , Alpha and others, much of this incompetence is self inflicted. Any one can excuse a single move made by the FO but in entirety, it is a mess. Whaley was let go primarily because he could not build a winning team. Seeing how they paid such low attention to the offense, I have no confidence that this FO is phililosophically any better. The flip side to the 'give them time' plea is that by the time the offense is any good, the D would have slid. 

 

I just don't buy this logic that the cupboard was bare and needed a complete oberhaul. Plenty of examples around the league where new coaches have turned around a franchise in <2 years. The disaster we are seeing as a follow up to a playoff season is an utter inexcusable debacle. 

I believe it could be enough if he has a true #1 and a speedster to complement him. 

  What happens on other teams may not be analogous to what it going on with the Bills.  One thing being we had a bad contract at first with Mario Williams and later Dareus to be purged.  I'll ask did these other teams have 100M contracts on the books after the player who had it was gone?  Don't think so.  I'll add that I recall McDermott saying not to expect a lot this year.

[Ray Finkel]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Who those picks eventually got traded to and what those teams used them for is completely irrelevant.

 

Buffalo owned them and used them to get a QB who might eventually become a franchise QB.

 

You said:

 

 

 

 

And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

We will see about that

[Kaenon]

On 11/4/2018 at 6:51 PM, CaptnCoke11 said:

90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. 

Going to have to agree here.

[blacklabel]

21 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

faster then some would think though

 

Not super bowl good next year.......but much improved especially on offense and fun to watch again

Going 8-8 and recycling another coaching staff is not going to get you there any sooner sir

 

It will just be more of the same

 

I thought they'd be a little more competitive than what they have been this season. I figured they'd lose a bunch but I didn't think they'd get pummeled like they have week in and week out. There's just such a serious lack of talent on offense that they can't get out of their own way. And it can't all get fixed in one off-season. But, for 2019, I would hope that they make some progress and stop with the blowouts.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

Spot on- some sanity on the board is very refreshing.

 

If things continue on the same slope- we certainly stand a chance for worst offense ever. If Daboll survives this I will be shocked. Many may say he has to make due with what he has, however who is to say he hasnt had a say in personnel?

 

I am beginning to sense that McClappy doesnt have what it takes to be a HC- very evidenced by, as you stated, ignoring analytics/stats. 

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

Finally, a dose of reality.

 

I get that Bills fans want to defend their team, their coaches, their GM. I agree with jrober38 in that I expected a bad team (4-12 about right) due to the fact that they didn't adequately replace Woods, Incognito among other things. I don't think anyone expected this 2-7 debacle. 

 

There are some things that some fans just don't understand about what happened for most of the beginning of the season. Yes, the team got behind in points so the game plan went out the window and the OC went pass happy. It happened again in week 8 all game against the NE Patriots when the team was only behind 3 points in the first three quarters and it was only in the fourth that the Patriots jumped out far ahead. 

 

This OC going pass happy with a rookie QB was moronic, especially when you see him calling mid to deep passes that require a 5 to 7 step drop that takes time. Time for the receiver to break open, time for the QB to be able to step up in the pocket. The reality is that the Bills line wouldn't give the QBs more than two seconds most of time. Hence the 33 sacks which is second most sacks in the league. 

 

This offense wasn't set up for a rookie QB and the OC was calling plays like he had a veteran QB behind center that could read a pre-snap defense and call protections. Both Peterman and Allen are so raw that they don't know how to read a defense or set protections. Simply bad coaching. 

 

You know what I find striking in all this mess of a season is that in their two wins this team managed to run the ball very well against some very good defenses in Tennessee and Minnesota. Against Tenn, 43 runs, 20 passes, against Minn, 38 runs, 22 passes. This is the way the offense should have been all season and instead it's been the exact opposite with 30+ passes and 20 or so runs every game other then those two wins.

 

Now, everybody defending this regime is blaming the players and I do agree to a point. Look at the grading for these players and they are not off the charts bad like they look. It's bad coaching that is making them look worse then they actually are. HaplessBillsfan did an in depth study of the run blocking and found that this years line was overly complex in their blocking assignments. Just like the OC asking the line to do things that they aren't capable of doing. 

 

Somebody made a judgement call on the offensive line players. Somebody made a judgment call on the QB situation in starting Peterman, no veteran QB on the roster for the first five games. Somebody hired an OC that didn't have a very good resume and then wanted him to develop a rookie QB and a 2nd year QB with very limited experience. Somebody hired a QB that had never previously been a QB to help develop two young inexperienced QBs. Simple ineptitude!

 

We all need to remember that these owners fired a man they loved when they hired him during a 7-8 season because he regressed by one win!  The 2018 Buffalo Bills currently 2-7 with a bye week coming up after the NY Jets game @ the Jets.  2-8 at the bye? I want to hear what Terry Pegula thinks about all this. 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

 

22 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

... And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

We will see about that

 

 

Um, no, it's a fact. Getting a QB who might be a franchise QB is building a foundation. That's already a fact. Not all foundations work out well. But this is indeed a foundation stone for them, along with the defense.

 

What we'll see about is whether the offense they're building the foundation for is successful or not. That is indeed up in the air. We should see the answer over the next two to three years.

 

13 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

 

We all need to remember that these owners fired a man they loved when they hired him during a 7-8 season because he regressed by one win!  The 2018 Buffalo Bills currently 2-7 with a bye week coming up after the NY Jets game @ the Jets.  2-8 at the bye? I want to hear what Terry Pegula thinks about all this. 

 

 

 

 

Nah. They didn't fire Rex because he regressed by a win. They fired him because he was coming across as a clown and because he hadn't delivered on his promises. Unlike McDermott, Rex promised a no-pain reload that was going to turn under his brilliant leadership into an excellent team very quickly. He couldn't deliver on any of that.

 

Whereas McDermott and Beane have been realistic about what's coming ... namely the pain of a rebuild followed by hope. They made their goal being a consistent competitor for championships. But they made it pretty clear it wouldn't come in the short term.

 

When / if it becomes obvious they can't deliver, they absolutely should be called to account. We'll have to wait to see how that turns out down the road.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Ol Dirty B]

20 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

A couple things here.  One you say they had plenty of time to find a replacement for Wood.  They had one on the roster:  Groy.  He didn't meet expectations after filling in admirably a couple seasons ago.  and they did sign Bodine.  And you also talk about having plenty of time to get a replacement for Richie.  Now, given the dearth of O linemen in the league as it is

 

Now, when you make this point. Which I think they were dealt a bad hand this off season, but I do think they could have done more. Do you not think the Cordy trade was a bad idea because Dawkins played good?

 

The RT has been a problem on this team for a few years now. So you have two good tackles, one on a rookie contract and your instinct is to trade one? I have serious doubts on their judgment.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Now, when you make this point. Which I think they were dealt a bad hand this off season, but I do think they could have done more. Do you not think the Cordy trade was a bad idea because Dawkins played good?

 

The RT has been a problem on this team for a few years now. So you have two good tackles, one on a rookie contract and your instinct is to trade one? I have serious doubts on their judgment.

Glenn was hurt pretty much all of last year.  They traded up to get their QB and that was the capital cinci wanted.  Tough to lose him but at the time it made sense.

[Nihilarian]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Glenn was hurt pretty much all of last year.  They traded up to get their QB and that was the capital cinci wanted.  Tough to lose him but at the time it made sense.

Buffalo was trading him so they had more ammo to move up to grab a QB as they got the 12th overall pick for him. The thinking must have been that Glenn was overpaid for what he brought @ 12 Mill per. While grading out well over the years he also regressed a bit until Incognito started next to him. Did the guy ever make the pro bowl? 

[Nihilarian]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Whereas McDermott and Beane have been realistic about what's coming ... namely the pain of a rebuild followed by hope. They made their goal being a consistent competitor for championships. But they made it pretty clear it wouldn't come in the short term.

You keep saying this and yet all I hear from this FO is that they want to win and are doing everything they can to do just that. This is what I hear! They have never, ever said anything about rebuilding.

 

"That's not it at all. It's about winning football games," McDermott said in June. "Our goals are to win now, because winning now helps you sustain success down the road."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/83848/buffalo-bills-coach-sean-mcdermott-avoiding-rebuilding-label-in-2017

 

 

They are failing this year... not due to a plan to rebuild ...but due to ineptitude in talent evaluation in the starting QB, the starting offensive linemen, the starting receiver corps.  

 

Perhaps he needs to look at the tape some more? 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

You keep saying this and yet all I hear from this FO is that they want to win and are doing everything they can to do just that. This is what I hear! They have never, ever said anything about rebuilding.

 

"That's not it at all. It's about winning football games," McDermott said in June. "Our goals are to win now, because winning now helps you sustain success down the road."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/83848/buffalo-bills-coach-sean-mcdermott-avoiding-rebuilding-label-in-2017

 

 

They are failing this year... not due to a plan to rebuild ...but due to ineptitude in talent evaluation in the starting QB, the starting offensive linemen, the starting receiver corps.  

 

Perhaps he needs to look at the tape some more? 

do you really expect a coach to say his team is rebiulding?   Come on sir

[Fan in Chicago]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

do you really expect a coach to say his team is rebiulding?   Come on sir

Then why should we believe him when he says he is trying to win games?