BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Levy was last HC in KC more than 35 years ago. Point is, the Bills are not trending, after 2 offseasons and 24 games toward being playoff caliber. Outside of Tom Coughlin I can't think of one. With NFL HCs, if they flame out in their first job it's not typical they'll figure things out in the second. That is, if they get a second chance because most don't. I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation. I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional.
Boatdrinks Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: They didn't in 1996 when Belichick would have started in Baltimore if he hadn't been fired before the move. Things would have played out completely differently. Dilfer was a TB reject. Right. That’s why I stated you could insert a different name there. It almost certainly wouldn’t have been Brady.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Heitz said: Sooooo, all we need to do is find a coach that’s never been fired and we’re good..? Also, aren’t almost all NFL coaches eventually fired? McD was even fired as DC in Philly. Juan Castillo.........our esteemed OL coach.........replaced him as DC.?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective. We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time" over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore. But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years? Can't think of many. Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001? Otherwise I can't even think of any. Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes. Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job. Interesting thread, BadOl. I tend to believe the Bills let Son of Bum go too soon. I'm not sure who hitched our star to Rob Johnson - I thought I heard at the time he was Ralph Wilson's idea. Maybe you know. It can be argued that Wade never took a team deep into the playoffs in his HC stints, but in Dallas I thought that had something to do with having a QB who wasn't "Mr Postseason". Certainly he can put in a good claim to have been plagued by questionable reffing in both B'lo and Dallas. Belichick*** is certainly the most notorious example and there's an argument to be made for "one Mo Lewis hit away from the unemployment line" Wow, it hadn't sunk in with me before just how long a run Reid got in Philly.
Tcali Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective. We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time" over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore. But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years? Can't think of many. Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001? Otherwise I can't even think of any. Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes. Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job. def scottenheimer…...belichek in Cleveland. Bill walsh passed over for HC in CINCY of all places 14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation. I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional. Tenn looks worse though
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Tcali said: def scottenheimer…...belichek in Cleveland. Bill walsh passed over for HC in CINCY of all places I think the further you go back there were a lot of instances.......once you get to the 2000's it's really hard to find an example. Teams still make bad hires..........but proven bad firings are almost not even a thing anymore. IMO it's because things move in high speed now.........much easier to evaluate the people you hire to run your team. The roster Doug Pederson inherited with the Eagles was considered pretty torn up by Chip Kelly.............certainly worse than the pre-free agency roster that Rex left behind in Buffalo........and a with whole lotta' good GM'ing and exactly zero tankin' they were beating teams down a season later on their way to a SB win.
Tcali Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think the further you go back there were a lot of instances.......once you get to the 2000's it's really hard to find an example. Teams still make bad hires..........but proven bad firings are almost not even a thing anymore. IMO it's because things move in high speed now.........much easier to evaluate the people you hire to run your team. The roster Doug Pederson inherited with the Eagles was considered pretty torn up by Chip Kelly.............certainly worse than the pre-free agency roster that Rex left behind in Buffalo........and a with whole lotta' good GM'ing and exactly zero tankin' they were beating teams down a season later on their way to a SB win. I would agree with that
Tcali Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: Nick Saban bingo
DocLawless Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 I won't speak on Beane as I feel he still has a lot to prove, but my personal opinion is that very few coaches could have brought last years roster to the playoffs. I know we had some help and I know McDermotts clapping annoys people for some reason, but I think we have a good one in him. I hope he gets a couple more years.
Talley56 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) Possibly Tampa, Dungy. I know, they won the SB the next year but they fell hard not too long after that. Edited November 4, 2018 by Talley56
njbillsman Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 Did anyone think this roster was a playoff team. 50 Plus million in dead cap space. The team broke the playoff drought last year I think that should bank some credibility as a good coach. Though technically not fired, letting Doug Marone walk away could be considered a mistake. If basing it on the level of success he has had after his departure. My personal stance is I root for the Bills and coach McD is part of the team and I hope he will be successful in rebuilding a championship caliber team. When and if he gets replaced I will be cheering just as much for the next guy. Go Bills
ganesh Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: You know, that brings up a really interesting thought. What kind of coach would Bill Belichick even be if not for Brady? He had the one season with Matt Cassel where they went 10-6, but that's not enough of a sample size to say definitively one way or the other. It's not an original thought, but I'm sure he'd love to win a ring without Brady. Obviously the whole Jimmy G thing has been discussed to death. Wasn't he 2-5 with Drew Bledsoe before the bizarre hit by Moe! 2 minutes ago, njbillsman said: Did anyone think this roster was a playoff team. 50 Plus million in dead cap space. The team broke the playoff drought last year I think that should bank some credibility as a good coach. Though technically not fired, letting Doug Marone walk away could be considered a mistake. If basing it on the level of success he has had after his departure. My personal stance is I root for the Bills and coach McD is part of the team and I hope he will be successful in rebuilding a championship caliber team. When and if he gets replaced I will be cheering just as much for the next guy. Go Bills Doug Marrone's career has taken an upward swing after the hire of Tom Coughlin....Till then they were a bad team.
BarleyNY Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: The Browns and Belicheat ? Ravens. They fired him right after the move.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 After Belichick, the Browns have cycled through 10 coaches if you count Greggie, but I wouldn’t say any of them are going to be missed outside of Bill. But crazy as it sounds, the last coach in Cleveland to sport a winning regular season record, is also Marty S, and Modell waved goodbye after the 88 season—I’d say based on Cleveland time alone, Marty may be one that franchise also regrets letting slip away too soon. They haven’t recovered since. Washington and San Diego also didn’t learn this lesson where he’s concerned
njbillsman Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, ganesh said: Doug Marrone's career has taken an upward swing after the hire of Tom Coughlin....Till then they were a bad team. Doug Marrone was a success at Syracuse. He left coming off a winning season in Buffalo. Tom Coughlin was hired the same day Marrone was officially given the head coaching job in Jacksonville. I'm not an apologist for Marrone I'm just saying he is a success with and without Tom.
Buffalo86 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 Not that he's done anything since to make them regret it, but I thought Greg Schiano should've been given a 3rd year in Tampa Bay.
K-9 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 I’m more interested in coaches who got off to such inauspicious starts that they had their fan bases up in arms and clamoring for them to be fired but were retained and then went on to succeed.
BillsVet Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation. I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional. I looked at 20 seasons' worth (1999-2018) of HC hires and there were more coaches than I thought who received 2nd HC jobs. It's an incomplete list, but I saw 37 guys hired in those years who at some point had 1 or more HC jobs. Of that group, I'd classify only a few (Andy Reid, Vermeil, Coughlin, Kubiak, and Carroll) having similar or more success in second or later gigs than their first. Roughly put, that's about 85% that didn't improve in their second jobs. Also found it noteworthy that during this time there were 137 HC hires made, so on average 7 teams are changing HCs every year. At this point, I'd expect to see significant improvement in year 3 or it's on to someone else. Turnover is not bad when something shows no sign of improving. Edited November 4, 2018 by BillsVet
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