mannc Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 It’s a good question. It’s equally valid to ask for examples of teams who stuck with coaches who were on the hot seat and ended up turning things around. Coughlin and the Giants? Dick Vermeil in St Louis?
Doc Brown Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:40 AM, BillsSbSoon said: I felt like todd haley got a raw deal in kc. took them to the playoffs with matt cassel. Good offensive mind he just is hard to deal with i guess Expand He was too tough to deal with as their was a lot of friction between him and Pioli.
SinceThe70s Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:46 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Totally relevant based on your question of Cleveland having Lombardi Trophies because of Belichick when they got an expansion franchise having no team until 99. The question about the Ravens and Belichick is the one to ask as it was earler in the thread. Expand OK, so if I had said the following would you have been less pissy: We all know about Belichik, but what we'll never know is whether the Browns Ravens trophy case would be full of Lombardi's if they had retained him.
Boatdrinks Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:38 AM, SinceThe70s said: We all know about Belichik, but what we'll never know is whether the Browns trophy case would be full of Lombardi's if they had retained him. Nice call on Carroll. Not sure if Reid fits the criteria. Expand On Belichick it would be the Ravens not the Browns. My guess is no. I don’t think he’d have an extended run of dominance and championships with a great defense and Trent Dilfer as his QB.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:49 AM, SinceThe70s said: OK, so if I had said the following would you have been less pissy: We all know about Belichik, but what we'll never know is whether the Browns Ravens trophy case would be full of Lombardi's if they had retained him. Expand Pissy? You just forgot about what really happened with the Franchise. Not a big deal to get all huffy about.
SinceThe70s Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:52 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Pissy? You just forgot about what really happened with the Franchise. Not a big deal to get all huffy about. Expand Check out Boatdrinks response correcting my error. He corrected me and addressed the point. You dismissed the point based on my error. To me your response was pissy, and that made me huffy. You reap what you sow.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 2:01 AM, SinceThe70s said: Check out Boatdrinks response correcting my error. He corrected me and addressed the point. You dismissed the point based on my error. To me your response was pissy, and that made me huffy. You reap what you sow. Expand I simply stated a matter of fact. You made yourself huffy, but you'll survive and so will I. 1
Boatdrinks Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 12:36 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Belichick had a good thing going with Cleveland and would have likely enjoyed sustained success in Baltimore. Expand He did, but it’s a leap to say sustained success was likely. It’s certainly debatable. As you stated, it takes the right QB and there is no guarantee B.B. would have found that in Baltimore. They had an all time defense and Trent Dilfer at QB when they won the SB vs the Giants. Roethlisberger ended up in the division shortly thereafter. The QB deprived AFCE has provided an easy path to division titles and home fields in the playoffs. Brady has tormented the Steelers, but what if a Brady-less BB. had been with the Ravens and faced Big Ben twice a year? Many factors to consider and barriers to success existed.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) What I am asking is who proved he was fired too soon by having success elsewhere afterward? Pete Carroll has been mentioned a couple times..........and maybe the Jets regret it.........but firing him and hiring Belichick was one of the greatest moves in NFL history by Kraft and the Pats. I see answers like "Love Smith".........he was awful in Tampa.........so the Bears certainly weren't forced to regret that. Andy Reid..........nope...........the Eagles just won a SB which the accomplished Reid has never done. I think the Niners losing Harbaugh was huge but he wasn't so much fired as he was angling his way out of town. Shanahan and the Raiders.......definitely a mistake by Al......... but that was outside of the 25 year range.........and 25 is probably generous to consider relevant........I'm not even sure Belichick is a reasonable cautionary tale anymore........teams just have so much more info now than they had back then. in any event......there certainly aren't many..........it simply doesn't take long to identify if a HC/GM have what it takes and it takes less time than ever to shape a roster if done right. Edited November 4, 2018 by BADOLBILZ
26CornerBlitz Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 2:09 AM, Boatdrinks said: He did, but it’s a leap to say sustained success was likely. It’s certainly debatable. As you stated, it takes the right QB and there is no guarantee B.B. would have found that in Baltimore. They had an all time defense and Trent Dilfer at QB when they won the SB vs the Giants. Roethlisberger ended up in the division shortly thereafter. The QB deprived AFCE has provided an easy path to division titles and home fields in the playoffs. Brady has tormented the Steelers, but what if a Brady-less BB. had been with the Ravens and faced Big Ben twice a year? Many factors to consider and barriers to success existed. Expand You can't really project Dilfer because things would have been so much different with him at the helm.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 12:11 AM, Rob's House said: It's kind of like the question about what QBs have been ruined by starting to soon. It's kind of hard to tell with any degree of accuracy because we don't know what might have happened otherwise. Expand It's "kind of" like it.........but not the same for sure......they don't get physically and mentally destroyed like mismanaged QB's........and the NFL LOVES to give experienced coaches second chances at HC jobs. Even the mediocre ones get second and sometimes third chances.
SinceThe70s Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) On 11/4/2018 at 2:27 AM, BADOLBILZ said: What I am asking is who proved he was fired too soon by having success elsewhere afterward? Pete Carroll has been mentioned a couple times..........and maybe the Jets regret it.........but firing him and hiring Belichick was one of the greatest moves in NFL history by Kraft and the Pats. I see answers like "Love Smith".........he was awful in Tampa.........so the Bears certainly weren't forced to regret that. Andy Reid..........nope...........the Eagles just won a SB which the accomplished Reid has never done. I think the Niners losing Harbaugh was huge but he wasn't so much fired as he was angling his way out of town. Shanahan and the Raiders.......definitely a mistake by Al......... but that was outside of the 25 year range.........and 25 is probably generous to consider relevant........I'm not even sure Belichick is a reasonable cautionary tale anymore........teams just have so much more info now than they had back then. in any event......there certainly aren't many..........it simply doesn't take long to identify if a HC/GM have what it takes and it takes less time than ever to shape a roster if done right. Expand What's your over/under on the number of games it takes to evaluate a head coach? And is roster talent something to consider? If so, how is that factored in? Edited November 4, 2018 by SinceThe70s
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:47 AM, noacls said: Ralph when he got rid of Wade Expand Love Wade as a DC but he runs a sloppy ship.......no attention to detail....... as a HC and the team degenerates under his watch............I wouldn't have faulted Donahoe for giving him another season if Wade didn't resign.........but bear in mind the PREVIOUS coaching search that Donahoe conducted......to replace Chuck Noll.........he narrowed it down to three choices......Mike Holmgren, Dennis Green or Bill Cowher.........so suffice to say he felt like he could get a better HC than Wade.
BillsVet Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) On 11/4/2018 at 1:45 AM, ColoradoBills said: Some on this board would of called for Levy's head after losing to the Colts (47-6) in 1987. Then went on next week to lose again with a total Bills record of 3-8 at the time. Keep in mind Levy was HC of the Chiefs for 5 years with a 31-42 record. NO ONE knows what Beane and McDermott's future will be................but they will be here in 2019. Period. Expand Levy was last HC in KC more than 35 years ago. Point is, the Bills are not trending, after 2 offseasons and 24 games toward being playoff caliber. On 11/4/2018 at 2:27 AM, BADOLBILZ said: What I am asking is who proved he was fired too soon by having success elsewhere afterward? Pete Carroll has been mentioned a couple times..........and maybe the Jets regret it.........but firing him and hiring Belichick was one of the greatest moves in NFL history by Kraft and the Pats. I see answers like "Love Smith".........he was awful in Tampa.........so the Bears certainly weren't forced to regret that. Andy Reid..........nope...........the Eagles just won a SB which the accomplished Reid has never done. I think the Niners losing Harbaugh was huge but he wasn't so much fired as he was angling his way out of town. There just aren't many..........it simply doesn't take long to identify if a HC/GM have what it takes and it takes less time than ever to shape a roster. Expand Outside of Tom Coughlin I can't think of one. With NFL HCs, if they flame out in their first job it's not typical they'll figure things out in the second. That is, if they get a second chance because most don't. Edited November 4, 2018 by BillsVet
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 1:47 AM, noacls said: Ralph when he got rid of Wade Expand most definitely. But that wasn't because of on-field performance... we went to the playoffs that year (and then not for 17 years). I understand there was a disagreement about Wade not firing one of his assistants after the loss. Probably also Wade was still upset he had to lie to the media about who decided not to play Flutie (it was Ralph). I think technically he was fired but really, I think he dared Ralph to fire him and was probably happy to walk away. Others on this board probably know more.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 2:39 AM, SinceThe70s said: What's your over/under on the number of games it takes to evaluate a head coach? And is roster talent something to consider? If so, how is that factored in? Expand I think a couple seasons........maybe part of another. Roster talent and the ability to adapt your schemes to the players you inherit is an indication of your intelligence/competence/potential longevity as a HC. 2
Boatdrinks Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 2:27 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: You can't really project Dilfer because things would have been so much different with him at the helm. Expand Perhaps, but the point is the same even if you project someone else. The Ravens had Dilfer. The QB would probably not have been Tom Brady.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 2:51 AM, Boatdrinks said: Perhaps, but the point is the same even if you project someone else. The Ravens had Dilfer. The QB would probably not have been Tom Brady. Expand They didn't in 1996 when Belichick would have started in Baltimore if he hadn't been fired before the move. Things would have played out completely differently. Dilfer was a TB reject.
Heitz Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) Sooooo, all we need to do is find a coach that’s never been fired and we’re good..? Also, aren’t almost all NFL coaches eventually fired? Edited November 4, 2018 by Heitz
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