Only One Starter Drafted After 2nd Round

[ajzepp]

Yes, you are correct.  Much better than NE.  Now again, PLEASE go away.

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Dude, is there some rule about getting your permission to post? lol Sorry, but your argument about TD holds no water whatsoever......if I can help refute it, I'm gonna

[Buftex]

Why don't you go find some teams who have done better and list them for us......then maybe your point will hold some water.

284839[/snapback]

 

 

Actually, the late John Butler, and the much maligned AJ Smith did a fine job, for many years, of finding good talent, for the Bills, in the later rounds. I am not a TD basher, but I must say, I am not overly impressed with his draft record either.

 

I know this is a much different era than the 90's. TD gets generally high marks for handling the salary cap, and free agency, but I think his results are less than spectacular in the draft. I know, everyone will now mention Erik Flowers, and slam Butler. They forget, he played the AJ Smith role when Polian was here...Butler may not have been able to manage a salary cap, but I would put his draft record right up there with anyone's over the last 25 years. I think it speaks volumes about the teams Butler had, that so many of the guys that we got good play out of, did nothing with other teams.....

 

I am overall pleased with the job TD has done as GM, but I think his draft record in Buffalo has been a pretty mixed bag. We have far too many players in during his tenure that have had zero impact on the team. Part of this may be coaching, part may be the fact that the team has essentially been rebuilding for the last 5 years...ultimately, this is still a work in progress. We can't really judge things, until we start making the playoffs with this core of players, and see how far they can go...they are slightly behind expectations right now.....

[ajzepp]

I agree that you would think that sooner or later TD would find that diamond in the rough in the later rounds of the draft, but I'll give him credit in that he had a lot of success with UDFA last year.  M. Baker, J. Greer, J. Peters, S. Williams & C. Ritzmann were all on the active roster at one point or another last year.

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Yep, and I'm pretty sure Baker won the starting job prior to Troy coming back and taking over at FS.

[Pete]

Sure I can, I'm in idiot!

285044[/snapback]

well stated

[San-O]

Dude, is there some rule about getting your permission to post? lol  Sorry, but your argument about TD holds no water whatsoever......if I can help refute it, I'm gonna 

285061[/snapback]

 

That's fine. Then please grow up at least and stop the name calling. It

makes you look ignorant. Maybe it's not your fault.

 

26-38, last time I looked, TD got worked by NE for Bledsoe and have

won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls.

[ajzepp]

Actually, the late John Butler, and the much maligned AJ Smith did a fine job, for many years, of finding good talent, for the Bills, in the later rounds.  I am not a TD basher, but I must say, I am not overly impressed with his draft record either.

 

I know this is a much different era than the 90's.  TD gets generally high marks for handling the salary cap, and free agency, but I think his results are less than spectacular in the draft.  I know, everyone will now mention Erik Flowers, and slam Butler.  They forget, he played the AJ Smith role when Polian was here...Butler may not have been able to manage a salary cap, but I would put his draft record right up there with anyone's over the last 25 years.  I think it speaks volumes about the teams Butler had, that so many of the guys that we got good play out of, did nothing with other teams.....

 

I am overall pleased with the job TD has done as GM, but I think his draft record in Buffalo has been a pretty mixed bag.  We have far too many players in during his tenure that have had zero impact on the team.  Part of this may be coaching, part may be the fact that the team has essentially been rebuilding for the last 5 years...ultimately, this is still a work in progress.  We can't really judge things, until we start making the playoffs with this core of players, and see how far they can go...they are slightly behind expectations right now.....

285062[/snapback]

 

And I respect your viewpoint on that.......nothing wrong with disagreement, bro. But the comparison So-Cal was making was ludicrous. I thought the Polian/Butler regime did pretty well for the most part, too......I don't have anything negative to say about them, other than their 2000 draft and breaking the bank for someone like Joe Panos. As for TD, sure it would great if the three year plan came to fruition.....but Johnson wasn't the answer, Williams wasn't the right coach, and Bledsoe was.....well....Bledsoe. But I think we have fixed those problems and are on the verge of making some noise. Hopefully this season will prove that to be true, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Alaska Darin]

Actually, the late John Butler, and the much maligned AJ Smith did a fine job, for many years, of finding good talent, for the Bills, in the later rounds.  I am not a TD basher, but I must say, I am not overly impressed with his draft record either.

 

I know this is a much different era than the 90's.  TD gets generally high marks for handling the salary cap, and free agency, but I think his results are less than spectacular in the draft.  I know, everyone will now mention Erik Flowers, and slam Butler.  They forget, he played the AJ Smith role when Polian was here...Butler may not have been able to manage a salary cap, but I would put his draft record right up there with anyone's over the last 25 years.  I think it speaks volumes about the teams Butler had, that so many of the guys that we got good play out of, did nothing with other teams.....

 

I am overall pleased with the job TD has done as GM, but I think his draft record in Buffalo has been a pretty mixed bag.  We have far too many players in during his tenure that have had zero impact on the team.  Part of this may be coaching, part may be the fact that the team has essentially been rebuilding for the last 5 years...ultimately, this is still a work in progress.  We can't really judge things, until we start making the playoffs with this core of players, and see how far they can go...they are slightly behind expectations right now.....

285062[/snapback]

The reality is that the late rounds of the draft in recent years have been pretty grim for this. There are players like TJ Houshmanalphabet and Rudy Johnson for the Bengals who are contrary to the norm, but every team has had difficulty finding quality players in rounds 3-7.

 

Of course, if you believe the conventional wisdom then that's pretty much the rule. Players from the first round should be able to play at a high level regularly NLT than their 2nd season, and 2nd rounders in their 3rd. Everything after that is a crapshoot.

 

We've done about as well as anyone out there.

[San-O]

Actually, the late John Butler, and the much maligned AJ Smith did a fine job, for many years, of finding good talent, for the Bills, in the later rounds.  I am not a TD basher, but I must say, I am not overly impressed with his draft record either.

 

I know this is a much different era than the 90's.  TD gets generally high marks for handling the salary cap, and free agency, but I think his results are less than spectacular in the draft.  I know, everyone will now mention Erik Flowers, and slam Butler.  They forget, he played the AJ Smith role when Polian was here...Butler may not have been able to manage a salary cap, but I would put his draft record right up there with anyone's over the last 25 years.  I think it speaks volumes about the teams Butler had, that so many of the guys that we got good play out of, did nothing with other teams.....

 

I am overall pleased with the job TD has done as GM, but I think his draft record in Buffalo has been a pretty mixed bag.  We have far too many players in during his tenure that have had zero impact on the team.  Part of this may be coaching, part may be the fact that the team has essentially been rebuilding for the last 5 years...ultimately, this is still a work in progress.  We can't really judge things, until we start making the playoffs with this core of players, and see how far they can go...they are slightly behind expectations right now.....

285062[/snapback]

 

Wooaooo, STOP NOW. These guys don't like talking about years prior

to 2001. They get very upset!

[ajzepp]

That's fine.  Then please grow up at least and stop the name calling.  It

makes you look ignorant.  Maybe it's not your fault.

 

26-38, last time I looked, TD got worked by NE for Bledsoe and have

won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls.

285067[/snapback]

 

So-Cal surf......I apologize for calling you an idiot. I was wrong to do that.

 

The rest of it you were wrong about

 

By the way, nobody is making the argument that the Bills have been in the same league as the Pats the last few years.

[Alaska Darin]

Wooaooo, STOP NOW.  These guys don't like talking about years prior

to 2001.  They get very upset!

285070[/snapback]

You're right. We should blame the current administration for the sins committed by those who came before them. You ambidextrous? That'd explain your penchant for shoving both legs down your gullet.

[ajzepp]

Wooaooo, STOP NOW.  These guys don't like talking about years prior

to 2001.  They get very upset!

285070[/snapback]

 

Yeah, that's what it was.......we were upset about those "unspeakable' years before 2001.

[plenzmd1]

After round two (2).

 

After.

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Someone plaese help me and tell why this is any kind of reflection on a GM, even if you take so-cals argument at face value. Where your starters come from, to me, just does not matter. What matters is how do those starters perform on the field. Again, I am sure I will hear how draftees cost less on the cap, but for guys drafted after rd 2, thats only for four years.

 

Remeber, the Belicheck-Pioli team was widely praised for taking a bunch of mid level free agents and getting them to form the nucleus of the Pats

 

I know I am slow, but I just do not get this argument.

[San-O]

So-Cal surf......I apologize for calling you an idiot. I was wrong to do that.

 

The rest of it you were wrong about 

 

By the way, nobody is making the argument that the Bills have been in the same league as the Pats the last few years.

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Thanks ajzepp, no problem.

[San-O]

Yeah, that's what it was.......we were upset about those "unspeakable' years before 2001. 

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[Fan in Chicago]

I got an idea - how about we trade all picks from round 3 through seven and get one 1st round pick and one additional second round pick ? Heck, just get one 1st rounder in return so we have two starters from two rounds. Sound good ?

[San-O]

Way to man up. 

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Some other posters asked for numbers from other teams that had

more drafted starters than we do and more starters drafted after round

two. I looked at New England, being the best team in the league and posted

my results. I never said anything about only going back to 2001, someone

else added that criteria. TD gutted this team, not me. So after four years

of rebuilding, we're back to 9-7.

 

And by the way, there are backups that New England has that could start

for us, and starters for us that probably wouldn't make that team.

[Alaska Darin]

Some other posters asked for numbers from other teams that had

more drafted starters than we do and more starters drafted after round

two.  I looked at New England, being the best team in the league and posted

my results.  I never said anything about only going back to 2001, someone

else added that criteria.  TD gutted this team, not me.  So after four years

of rebuilding, we're back to 9-7.

 

And by the way, there are backups that New England has that could start

for us, and starters for us that probably wouldn't make that team.

285094[/snapback]

Put down the shovel. The hole's deep enough.

[San-O]

I got an idea - how about we trade all picks from round 3 through seven and get one 1st round pick and one additional second round pick ? Heck, just get one 1st rounder in return so we have two starters from two rounds. Sound good ?

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If you virtually never get a starter after round 2, why not?

[Alaska Darin]

Because no NFL GM not named Mike Ditka would make that trade.

 

If you believe in the draft pick rating system, the value of adding every pick from the 3rd round thru the 7th at the 14th position in each is 343.4. That's the equivalent of about the 56th overall pick (#24 of round 2). To get into round one you need to be at almost 600.

[San-O]

Someone plaese help me and tell why this is any kind of reflection on a GM, even if you take so-cals argument at face value. Where your starters come from, to me, just does not matter. What matters is how do those starters perform on the field. Again, I am sure I will hear how draftees cost less on the cap, but for guys drafted after rd 2, thats only for four years.

 

Remeber, the Belicheck-Pioli team was widely praised for taking a bunch of mid level free agents and getting them to form the nucleus of the Pats

 

I know I am slow, but I just do not get this argument.

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The Pats have 15 of 22 starters that were drafted by them, 68 %.

 

The Bills have 8 of 22 starters that were drafted by them, 36 %.

 

My point was that I felt only having eight drafted starters seemed low,

and one starter drafted after round two was shocking for a very average team. US.

 

Some posters challenged me to look at another teams drafted starters and I

chose N.E.

 

Then people wanted to skew the numbers by adding special team players and

then said only go back to 2001 and other stuff.

 

Guess I'm the only one surprised, OR maybe there are more Ole' Whitey

apologists here than I thought.