This entire, miserable season revolves around 1 player

[Bing Bong]

49 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

This season from the instant he was drafted became about nothing but how well he develops. Winning don't enter into it. Five years from now people will say either, "Yeah, the Bills destroyed him that year. Should've sat him and brought in some good QB coach," or "That was the year where he got the foundation of what he is today. Great year. We only won three games but what a great year."

Sounds like Beane found a way to have the former excuse in his pocket should Allen flame out of the NFL (not that he wouldn't be essentially blaming himself by going that route.. would be the time to play his trump card "it's Whaley's fault!"), but at least either way he has a way to get out of some criticism for the capital he invested.

 

But I don't believe in breaking Quarterbacks regardless, that excuse is for the weak body QBs, and weak mental fortitude. want Allen to be tough SOB in his career (not blaming him for getting injured) but a no injury season at the rate he was going would earn mad respect from me seeing a potential Ironman Quarterback out there. He was pretty darn tough with the hits he was taking.. and he was unreasonably optimistic getting back on the field in a game swiftly turning blowout (which is awesome! Read:mental fortitude)

 

He's already shown me he's not the type to get broken. If he busts, it's not because he started with a horrible offense and lost confidence.. dude has it in spades, or gets Trentative (love seeing him get up like a daisy after getting nailed.. really annoys defenders, like I get about Brady always bouncing up). He's got that mental intangible in him. And tbh one pre-draft facet I liked is he put up with a bad Wyoming team in college. A leader and team player knows it's a team sport, and while pushing his players to play the best shouldn't be pouting when things aren't as easy as they were with a powerhouse USC offense. Stay optimistic and see if you can overacheive.

 

I'm 3 hours early to work.. I'm saying getting broken David Carr style is still a quarterback flaw and not an excuse for busting. JA's got that (won't break) intangible, so early kudos to Beane on that. If we run him out because he was never at least given an EJ Manual situation then that's horse **** but if he gets his offense and doesn't get to the next level and is exposed for not being a franchise, it's not because he played on this offense in 2018, it's because he was a bad draft pick from the get go.

 

And yeah, I maintained unless Shady made his HOF status as a lock carrying the offense like Barry Sanders we were going to have a bad time with this roster if we didn't do anything other than switch a poor man's Russell Wilson (dude who at least could move the chains on a bad day in a similar crappy offense with athleticism) for a rookie we didn't want to start right away.

[YoloinOhio]

7 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

AJ McCarron.

 

Remember him?  Everyone was so happy when he signed with the Bills.  AJ would start with Josh and Nate as back-ups.  Plus, his wife was a well known model. Cool?

 

I was as naive as the Bills coaching staff.  He started 3 games in his 4 year career with the Bengals.  I assumed he was a quality QB backing up Andy Dalton.  Why wouldn't he be?

 

He flopped all through training camp.  He showed nothing in pre-season games.  The Bills Management plan for our QB's died right there.

 

Sad that an NFL franchise has to crumble for one bad choice in the off-season.  Very Sad!

I read right here yesterday that AJ should have just been handed the starting job because he was “established” had a “track record”. The team should have ignored how bad he was in the preseason because he once played a few games for the bengals and didn’t look terrible. Lock that guy in to the starting job! Also did you know that he is a Christian??? The fact they got rid of him is a narrative buster TSW cannot handle. 

[Bing Bong]

Side note: I don't buy the Rosen is too frail because of concussions narrative. The dude goes out when he gets concussed, the real damage comes from repeat concussions in a short span. JA absolutely has gotten concussed on at least 2 plays I recall and he kept playing. That's an injury I don't blame at all in a guy who allows the NFL/NCAA protocol to do it's job and steps out for the game.

 

He could be too frail if he starts getting repeated injuries to other parts of his body all career. But just because he "looks frail" and has had "too many concussions" as I keep hearing doesn't mean he's a proven injury prone guy. I'm absolutely positive he's gotten his bell rung just as much as any other quarterback in college, and 90% recklessly call it "grit" and keep playing.

 

I still see quarterbacks on national television getting lifted up by linemen, wobble their way to the huddle and keep playing when everybody watching knows they just got a severe head injury. What QBs don't let get reported proves the concussion counting on players is crock and having a few more than others in a career is no indication of being injury prone.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Watched AJ a bit last night with raiders and he looked like he did with the bills held the ball too long and took sacks

[Wayne Arnold]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Is it concerning at all that Allen has looked worse than Anderson, who you say McCarron would be an upgrade from? 

 

On what planet has Allen looked worse than Anderson? Anderson faced two of the worst defenses in the NFL and barfed all over himself both times.

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Sounds like Beane found a way to have the former excuse in his pocket should Allen flame out of the NFL (not that he wouldn't be essentially blaming himself by going that route.. would be the time to play his trump card "it's Whaley's fault!"), but at least either way he has a way to get out of some criticism for the capital he invested.

 

But I don't believe in breaking Quarterbacks regardless, that excuse is for the weak body QBs, and weak mental fortitude. want Allen to be tough SOB in his career (not blaming him for getting injured) but a no injury season at the rate he was going would earn mad respect from me seeing a potential Ironman Quarterback out there. He was pretty darn tough with the hits he was taking.. and he was unreasonably optimistic getting back on the field in a game swiftly turning blowout (which is awesome! Read:mental fortitude)

 

He's already shown me he's not the type to get broken. If he busts, it's not because he started with a horrible offense and lost confidence.. dude has it in spades, or gets Trentative (love seeing him get up like a daisy after getting nailed.. really annoys defenders, like I get about Brady always bouncing up). He's got that mental intangible in him. And tbh one pre-draft facet I liked is he put up with a bad Wyoming team in college. A leader and team player knows it's a team sport, and while pushing his players to play the best shouldn't be pouting when things aren't as easy as they were with a powerhouse USC offense. Stay optimistic and see if you can overacheive.

 

I'm 3 hours early to work.. I'm saying getting broken David Carr style is still a quarterback flaw and not an excuse for busting. JA's got that (won't break) intangible, so early kudos to Beane on that. If we run him out because he was never at least given an EJ Manual situation then that's horse **** but if he gets his offense and doesn't get to the next level and is exposed for not being a franchise, it's not because he played on this offense in 2018, it's because he was a bad draft pick from the get go.

 

And yeah, I maintained unless Shady made his HOF status as a lock carrying the offense like Barry Sanders we were going to have a bad time with this roster if we didn't do anything other than switch a poor man's Russell Wilson (dude who at least could move the chains on a bad day in a similar crappy offense with athleticism) for a rookie we didn't want to start right away.

 

 

That wasn't Beane saying that. It was me. And it's pretty obvious ... Five years from now people will say either, "Yeah, the Bills destroyed him that year. Should've sat him and brought in some good QB coach," or "That was the year where he got the foundation of what he is today. Great year. We only won three games but in retrospect, what a great year." I have no clue which. 

 

It's complete nonsense that only weak QBs get injured. This is the NFL. Plenty of people get injured, strong, weak and in between.

 

And if you don't believe in breaking QBs, then you're avoiding the truth. Pretty much everyone in the league believes it's possible. Hell, Josh Allen said it happens. Blaming David Carr's busting on David Carr shows how deeply caught up in your argument you are. That simply doesn't make sense. This isn't about excuses. It's about how humans brains work.

 

You can have your career destroyed without ever giving in to the yips. Guys who get hammered regularly can learn. But if they're guys with bad habits, bad mechanics, or guys who depended on gimmicks like running that in college worked great but can be countered in the NFL, (developmental guys, generally) they're more likely to go back to what worked in the past, to their first instinct rather than taking the time to develop new muscle memory of the good habit. Got nothing to do with toughness.

 

Last year the three best QBs in the league all had taken their first year on the bench. And not one was a top five pick. This year it's up to the top four in the league with Mahomes. When you look at how few starters sat for their first year, this looks less and less like coincidence.

[Bing Bong]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I read right here yesterday that AJ should have just been handed the starting job because he was “established” had a “track record”. The team should have ignored how bad he was in the preseason because he once played a few games for the bengals and didn’t look terrible. Lock that guy in to the starting job! Also did you know that he is a Christian??? The fact they got rid of him is a narrative buster TSW cannot handle. 

His "highlight reel" was genuinely hilarious in that sure he looked good but it was an AJ Green highlight reel! lol. It was so obvious on 90% of the plays that went to AJ Green I though good god did the guy making this have no other way to showcase the quarterback?? Thought he could be okay but wasn't holding my breath or pissed we lost dumped him. 

 

I"m pissed Peterman was the alternative with him gone.. some of those journeymen Quarterbacks are capable and we picked 2 pretty bad ones on top of keeping Peterman. When you're practicing with a rookie, AJ, and Peterman.. I'd bet it's pretty damn hard to know what a capable week 1 starter looks like.

[JoeF]

I thought it was going to be Colton Schmidt.  Its been corrected-- Bills go 8-0 the rest of the way.

[billsredneck1]

8 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Not for nothing but what in the heck happened to AJ?  I thought he was going to be able to do more than get traded off.  BEFORE the season started.  I still can not figger that one out.  What the HECK happened?????

well, let me tell you...they brought in aj and told him what they were looking for...someone to run the team while they evaluate and prepare josh.

aj gets a chance to prove himself and get a good contract.   then aj kinda sucks/gets dinged through camp and they decide to roll with nate.

 

aj says to hell with that, i'm not gonna stand around being listed as a backup to either of those guys or worse yet be labeled no. 3.....just trade me.

 

they decided most very stupidly to agree to trade him...cause they didn't want the locker room to be at odds....allegedly. 

so instead of saying , look aj, we will explore trade options near or at the deadline.   you're going to honor your contract at least for now.  they left themselves with their pants around their ankles.....but wait...

 

aj  also screwed himself with such a knee jerk reaction because he would have seen action in game 1. he could very possibly had taken the starting job and maybe we wouldn't be where we are today.  bottom line:  huge brainfart on both sides of the table. so there ya have it.

Edited November 2, 2018 by billsredneck1

[BeginnersMind]

The guy who couldn’t beat out Nate Peterman for QB is the root of the problem?

 

OK. 

[Patrick Duffy]

I blame Tom Brady.

[Kirby Jackson]

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, westside said:

You bastard!?

 

That picture never gets old.  As far as QB’s, I’m not down on Allen, but taking Maholmes last year, or keeping TT would have been better options.  We lose Tre White, but then if you want to really go back why they could have kept Darby as less expensive than Gilmore.  OMG, as Austin Powers said my head is going to explode.

 

woulda, coulda, shoulda, and all we can do is hope the front office will completely focus on the offense, including possible trades later before the deadline and double down on next year.

[Bing Bong]

39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That wasn't Beane saying that. It was me. And it's pretty obvious ... Five years from now people will say either, "Yeah, the Bills destroyed him that year. Should've sat him and brought in some good QB coach," or "That was the year where he got the foundation of what he is today. Great year. We only won three games but in retrospect, what a great year." I have no clue which. 

  

It's complete nonsense that only weak QBs get injured. This is the NFL. Plenty of people get injured, strong, weak and in between.

  

And if you don't believe in breaking QBs, then you're avoiding the truth. Pretty much everyone in the league believes it's possible. Hell, Josh Allen said it happens. Blaming David Carr's busting on David Carr shows how deeply caught up in your argument you are. That simply doesn't make sense. This isn't about excuses. It's about how humans brains work.

 

 You can have your career destroyed without ever giving in to the yips. Guys who get hammered regularly can learn. But if they're guys with bad habits, bad mechanics, or guys who depended on gimmicks like running that in college worked great but can be countered in the NFL, (developmental guys, generally) they're more likely to go back to what worked in the past, to their first instinct rather than taking the time to develop new muscle memory of the good habit. Got nothing to do with toughness.

 

 Last year the three best QBs in the league all had taken their first year on the bench. And not one was a top five pick. This year it's up to the top four in the league with Mahomes. When you look at how few starters sat for their first year, this looks less and less like coincidence.

I know, doesn't matter who said it, matters who buys it.. If JA ever busting is based on nothing but the 2018 offense then you're giving Beane a pass should he just suck.

 

I know anybody could get injured on any play. I just defended Rosen's injury prone narrative as a case of reporting a statistic most QB's don't when a concussion is patently obvious (I know JA certainly has had his bell rung at least twice, and I'd be all for him going out given the real damage comes from repeated head injuries in a short time span.)

 

I get quarterbacks go back to bad habits.. that's a bad intangible (if the habit is ineffective). They need to be able to get back to their job of putting blinders on and focusing on improving. David Carr's just the classic example because there's not many of them! Most acknowledge the QB is bad to begin with.. who's defending Brandon Wheeden for starting out in a poor situation? And I don't even recall if David Carr EVER had a good team in his starting seasons with the Texans. He may never have been "broken" so much as never given the weapons and protection. In that case, sure.. go back to your bad habits if you're trying to win a ball game and the ole pro I-form 7 step drop, stand tall and sling every blitz ain't working, do your thing! Some would say Russell Wilson's penchant for running out of the pocket and creating a broken play in a horrible offense is his "bad habits" coming on, but he's an elite quarterback who's habits in college made him a good pro player. I'm hard pressed to find quarterbacks dramatically change their mechanics out of college on good rosters.. Tim Tebow didn't get anything fixed, nor did Vince Young's throwing style that looked like he was flinging turds out of his hand. it's simply a bad habit from college..

 

or a good one perceived as bad: Aaron rodgers never fixed his side arm released, I'm convinced quarterback academies should be teaching how to generate throwing power with a side armed sling shot wrist mechanic. Again, Russ Wilson. Phillip Rivers has a side armed release, Brett Favre did, a lot of great quarterbacks are using what worked in college rather than trying to be EJ Manual's impression of Mr. Fundemental.

 

RE David Carr: I said in the same post you replied to that I understand we're not seeing the best of JA, by our own device. And if we don't fix that to properly evaluate him, there's a possible Carr situation where he never started with a good team to begin with (again, if I'm recalling Carr's career correctly). But JA's not shook, he won't be, he has a great intangible for that very reason, and his career shouldn't be about his 2018 season, just what he does when he's given a supporting cast. Steve Young's career wasn't broken for playing for the Bucs, again I used Carr just because he's the poster child for this theory. Name me guys that would have really crushed it if they hadn't had 1 traumatic rookie year because of everyone one else on offense other than them.

Edited November 2, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

AJ McCarron.

 

Remember him?  Everyone was so happy when he signed with the Bills.  AJ would start with Josh and Nate as back-ups.  Plus, his wife was a well known model. Cool?

 

I was as naive as the Bills coaching staff.  He started 3 games in his 4 year career with the Bengals.  I assumed he was a quality QB backing up Andy Dalton.  Why wouldn't he be?

 

He flopped all through training camp.  He showed nothing in pre-season games.  The Bills Management plan for our QB's died right there.

 

Sad that an NFL franchise has to crumble for one bad choice in the off-season.  Very Sad!

Please change your thread title to more accurately reflect the truth. McDermott is the person responsible for thinking that going into a season with AJ McC, Pman and Allen was a good idea. When he saw the folly of that he decided to go into the season with Pman and Allen.  

 

We can also give him responsibility for Richie Incognito's departure. A renegotiated salary at a lower rate sent the guy off the rails for good.

[Bing Bong]

12 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

That picture never gets old.  As far as QB’s, I’m not down on Allen, but taking Maholmes last year, or keeping TT would have been better options.  We lose Tre White, but then if you want to really go back why they could have kept Darby as less expensive than Gilmore.  OMG, as Austin Powers said my head is going to explode.

 

woulda, coulda, shoulda, and all we can do is hope the front office will completely focus on the offense, including possible trades later before the deadline and double down on next year.

I totally feel you, I hate "that guy" regretting on who we never took.. hmm Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady.. every team can list 1000 all-pros they picked a bust over.

 

But damn it's hard to get past missing Mahomes, he is just playing so unbelievably well. Could break quarterback season records right now. And when I went back and reviewed all the pick exchanges.. (which is super convoluted, boring, and a waste of time. Don't do it).. Darby was really simply exchanged for Ryan Mathews and Kelvin Benjamin. Gross. And to all the people that say he doesn't fit McDermott's zone scheme. HE"S A FRIGGIN CB.. please! It's a shocker McDermott made Josh Norman work in man coverage so well in his scheme that is apparently so horrible for man to man recievers. CBs do both.. all the time. And depending on the skill set, some play zone or man more often when the defense calls for one or the other or a hybrid, we don't do zone all the time at all. Tre's in man coverage a TON out there depending on the offense.

[JMF2006]

9 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

AJ McCarron.

 

Remember him?  Everyone was so happy when he signed with the Bills.  AJ would start with Josh and Nate as back-ups.  Plus, his wife was a well known model. Cool?

 

I was as naive as the Bills coaching staff.  He started 3 games in his 4 year career with the Bengals.  I assumed he was a quality QB backing up Andy Dalton.  Why wouldn't he be?

 

He flopped all through training camp.  He showed nothing in pre-season games.  The Bills Management plan for our QB's died right there.

 

Sad that an NFL franchise has to crumble for one bad choice in the off-season.  Very Sad!

 

I guess you didn't see him play in the pre season games.

 

The man looked lost when things were at 3/4 speed he would be IR'd right now and the Bills would be 0-8 

[SoCal Deek]

32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That was a CLASSIC moment! 

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, JoeF said:

I thought it was going to be Colton Schmidt.  Its been corrected-- Bills go 8-0 the rest of the way.

 

He knows how to hold Haushes balls  

[BuffaloBillies]

AJ came into camp chubby and uninterested. Is in "dad mode"... just cashing back-up checks.