John Wawrow on the QB situation

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

 

Yes it did. This team needed to be torn apart for years, it has been improperly constructed and managed for over a decade. The cap needed to be cleared up, new faces needed to come in etc. If you think simply adding Allen, with the "old" team we had with Sammy, Woods, Goodwin, Dareus etc. was going to do anything I have a bridge to sell you. We had a mismatch of players fitting various schemes on the defense and even the offense. There were too many role players and not enough elite athletes to cover for roster deficiencies and our cap situation was not in the best shape. You build around the elite athletes and fill holes after round 2 and in FA, when rookie contracts are up for the role players, trade them away or let the walk and draft/use FA to find their replacements. The elite blue chip talent will be paid and your cap will stay in decent shape. What you and other are proposing is the same BS we have been doing for years with a roster designed for 7-9 to 9-7 wins. Might as well bite the bullet and hire Jeff Fisher at that point. 

 

They have actually done fairly well in FA and even the drafts. While I did not want to pass on Mahomes (I liked him and Trubisky the best), you cannot say that Tee isn't becoming an elite shutdown corner. Micah Hyde, Poyer, Haush$, Ivory, Star, Murphy are not bad pickups. The FA signings are to plug gaps in our roster and bring in people to help the HC change and establish the culture. We did take some players on some players who didn't work out, but that happens with every team. The top 2 rounds of the drafts should always be geared towards grabbing best talent available and looking for players with elite traits and at elite game changing positions. OL is an area we need to be better in, but if you look around the league it is a league wide problem. Most OL take 2-3 years to develop nowadays due to schemes difference in the college and the NFL.This is what makes Daboll a good hire, he can help guide the young team through a more college based offensive system towards a more prostyle method...

 

When you look at all of the parts 2-3 more wins this year with AJ does nothing for you. Also with Allen, you cannot have a TT or even AJ type person who wants to start. God forbid they are a bit better with a team in a teardown with players who are buying into what the coaches are selling, you will never get him on the field; unless you want to be the Raiders, which is a team who has a coach who lost his team...

 

No it didn't. I know this is the popular belief but it didn't.

 

We had a team that won 9 games last year.  It just needed to be improved.  We're still paying Hotrod and Darreus and others this suck egg year. Hotrod was on the last year of his contract for crying out loud.  I would prefer we had them playing for us letting our "franchise QB" learn and work on fundamentals like Mahomes did last year and start next year.

 

The idea that you want players on your team that DON'T want to start is crazy.  I want every guy to want to start and work hard on his craft to get there. Not guys happy to ride the pine and collect a paycheck.

 

Pro style offenses score points.  Before McDermott came along we were in the top 3rd of the league in scoring.  They ruined it last year and made it even worse this year.

 

This whole notion that if you don't like the rebuild it means you are satisfied with an average team is silly.  Of course I'm not.  I just have a different idea on how to get there than you do.

 

We keep losing like this with decent D and miserable QBing and McDermott is losing the locker room if he has not already.  Shady doesn't sound too happy.  this is career suicide for him.

 

Just  boggles my mind that you not only accept losing, but in fact embrace it.  I was not raised footbally that way.

 

Have fun with the losing.

 

 

[PIZ]

1 hour ago, yungmack said:

I know you're being funny but right now it looks like that would have been the smart thing to do.

 

Yes.  It's my sarcastic personality.  Makes me wonder though, if they should take a shot at trying a guy like Kyle Allen.  How do these teams find these guys like Romo or Mullens while other teams struggle for years to find a competent QB?  Some QBs just have it and it goes unnoticed, until the right team gives him a shot.

 

 

[CountDorkula]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

...Kyle Williams?

Since 2010 but if we are going back to 2006.

 

49 draft picks of Rd 5 +

4 successful hits. Kyle Williams, Karlos Williams, Matt Milano, Stevie Johnson

 

8% success rate.

 

Its not a good plan to have on 5th rd + players finding success. 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is a Fitz or a Tyrod he is in that range of the 25th-35th best Quarterback in (or not in) the NFL. If the Bills were trying really hard to win this season I could see the benefit of gambling on him and taking the attention. When we are clearly not I see no benefit at all.

I agree with this, so there was some hyperbole when I said he is not a starter level NFL qb.

[YoloinOhio]

22 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Asking those questions would have been a waste of time anyways.  McDermott/Beane would get all huffy and provide a non-answer

 

For starters, yes, hanging onto Tyrod is probably a better path than they took

Alex Smith would have been great, although a lot of us would be unhappy to give assets (had a 3rd from Tyrod anyways), as would Fitzpatrick.  McCown, Bradford, trade for Foles, McCarron staying, Keenum, etc.  

 

 

Im not/was not even a big salvage-2018 guy.  I am just troubled that the QB room for the draft's biggest project QB that the consensus said needed to sit awhile and learn contained only Nathan Peterman.  As a result, Allen got to "sit and learn" for a half, after losing reps all training camp to McCarron (and Peterman) anyways.  

The Bills never said they wanted him to sit though. They were the only team that didn’t say that out of the Jets, Browns, Cardinals who drafted QBs high. They just said they were going to let him compete and see what played out. We can disagree that they should have just declared he was going to sit ahead of time and do it, but the other teams did that and then all their rookies ended up playing  too anyway. 

[Saxum]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:35 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Perhaps this is just a call to action by JW for someone to ask the questions Sully did.

 

I do not think JW is ready to be the designated asswipe yet.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not think JW is ready to be the designated asswipe yet.

Tim graham is still there, covering the Bills for The Athletic. That role should be right in his wheelhouse. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not think JW is ready to be the designated asswipe yet.

 

It isn't an either/or situation.  Someone in the media could actually ask tough questions without posing them in the confrontational/abraisive way that had become Sully's style.

 

On 11/2/2018 at 10:12 AM, CountDorkula said:

Since 2010 the Bills have had 33 5th rd picks plus. 

Matt Milano is the only one in that 8 years that showed anything.

I may even give you Karlos Williams for that one year.

Thats what a 5% success rate?

 

I"m very curious where you got that 33 - 5th round picks since 2010.  I pulled it up in pro-football-reference and got 12 picks in that time frame.  Of them, I count 5 guys who showed something as NFL players (not necessarily here, eg Tank Carder, Jonathan Williams) and both Neal and Teller are still around with Neal seeing some playing time.  So not counting the two guys this year, half our 10 5th round picks have shown something.

 

If you're trying to argue for the low success rate of a 5th round pick received in trade, it seems a bit disingenuous to mix in later round picks with it, if that's how you got 33.

[Delete This Account]

Late to this party, but let's clear up some things.

If several members of the media are going to follow this lazy and tired narrative in accusing the Bills if completely mishandling the QB situation, then perhaps they should at least ask a question or two to at least be fair. There was one asked on Tuesday, which is what sparked my thread.

 

And rather than simply following the tired narrative, someone needs to explain to me how else the quarterback situation needed to be handled.

 

One valid point made through the discussion on Twitter was the Bills needed to bring in another quarterback immediately after trading McCarron. Beane has acknowledged that as being a mistake.

Otherwise, I've yet to hear any valid rundown on how the quarterback situation has played out since March.

 

And no, don't respond to me about what about Tyrod?

That ship sailed because Tyrod refused to restructure his contract; the Bills would be handcuffed under the cap with it; and they got a valuable draft pick out of it that allowed them more room to trade up on draft day.

 

WEO, of course, is trying too hard to over-think things and reading far too much into this as usual.

I'm hardly surprised.

 

jw

[BigBuff423]

3 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Late to this party, but let's clear up some things.

If several members of the media are going to follow this lazy and tired narrative in accusing the Bills if completely mishandling the QB situation, then perhaps they should at least ask a question or two to at least be fair. There was one asked on Tuesday, which is what sparked my thread.

 

And rather than simply following the tired narrative, someone needs to explain to me how else the quarterback situation needed to be handled.

 

One valid point made through the discussion on Twitter was the Bills needed to bring in another quarterback immediately after trading McCarron. Beane has acknowledged that as being a mistake.

Otherwise, I've yet to hear any valid rundown on how the quarterback situation has played out since March.

 

And no, don't respond to me about what about Tyrod?

That ship sailed because Tyrod refused to restructure his contract; the Bills would be handcuffed under the cap with it; and they got a valuable draft pick out of it that allowed them more room to trade up on draft day.

 

WEO, of course, is trying too hard to over-think things and reading far too much into this as usual.

I'm hardly surprised.

 

jw

 

I'm of the sect that finds less fault with Beane and McD than others, as I just don't think you can change a culture, revamp the roster, create a healthy Cap continuum, and locate and develop your QB of the future in one and a half years. Most of the people who think McD and Beane should be fired are those with a microwave mentality and refuse to acknowledge where the team was when McD and then Beane took over. 

 

The only trade I truly didn't understand - despite the idea that he didn't fit the scheme - was Darby. All the others I think played to the larger philosophy and vision McD and Beane have for the team. I also appreciate Beane's honesty to say he missed the mark on that one and should have been more proactive in getting a 3rd QB, a true Vet. That said, IMHO, it's much more about what they learn and how they adapt, than it is about pointing out their mistakes. It's easy to play captain armchair lame-ass GM when you don't have the multi-million dollar questions on the line day in and day out. IMO, Beane and McD need to be held to a higher standard with each passing year, and to that end, 2019 should be a year where real, measurable improvement is easily seen in the Offense and the Defense continues to get incrementally better. 

 

Thank you for responding jw, it's easy to duck and hide or ignore. 

[Delete This Account]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I'm of the sect that finds less fault with Beane and McD than others, as I just don't think you can change a culture, revamp the roster, create a healthy Cap continuum, and locate and develop your QB of the future in one and a half years. Most of the people who think McD and Beane should be fired are those with a microwave mentality and refuse to acknowledge where the team was when McD and then Beane took over. 

 

The only trade I truly didn't understand - despite the idea that he didn't fit the scheme - was Darby. All the others I think played to the larger philosophy and vision McD and Beane have for the team. I also appreciate Beane's honesty to say he missed the mark on that one and should have been more proactive in getting a 3rd QB, a true Vet. That said, IMHO, it's much more about what they learn and how they adapt, than it is about pointing out their mistakes. It's easy to play captain armchair lame-ass GM when you don't have the multi-million dollar questions on the line day in and day out. IMO, Beane and McD need to be held to a higher standard with each passing year, and to that end, 2019 should be a year where real, measurable improvement is easily seen in the Offense and the Defense continues to get incrementally better. 

 

Thank you for responding jw, it's easy to duck and hide or ignore. 

 

McDermott's philosophy is CBs, for the most part, are interchangeable. That was proven out last year when two guys, including Gaines, filled in for Darby's loss.

There was also a belief, from what I remember, that Darby didn't exactly fit the defense.

 

jw

 

 

[Peter]

Just now, john wawrow said:

 

McDermott's philosophy is CBs, for the most part, are interchangeable. That was proven out last year when two guys, including Gaines, filled in for Darby's loss.

There was also a belief, from what I remember, that Darby didn't exactly fit the defense.

 

jw

 

 

 

Question regarding Darby fitting the defense:

 

Isn't it fairly easy for a man to man cover corner to transition to a zone than the other way around?

[GG]

15 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Late to this party, but let's clear up some things.

If several members of the media are going to follow this lazy and tired narrative in accusing the Bills if completely mishandling the QB situation, then perhaps they should at least ask a question or two to at least be fair. There was one asked on Tuesday, which is what sparked my thread.

 

And rather than simply following the tired narrative, someone needs to explain to me how else the quarterback situation needed to be handled.

 

One valid point made through the discussion on Twitter was the Bills needed to bring in another quarterback immediately after trading McCarron. Beane has acknowledged that as being a mistake.

Otherwise, I've yet to hear any valid rundown on how the quarterback situation has played out since March.

 

And no, don't respond to me about what about Tyrod?

That ship sailed because Tyrod refused to restructure his contract; the Bills would be handcuffed under the cap with it; and they got a valuable draft pick out of it that allowed them more room to trade up on draft day.

 

WEO, of course, is trying too hard to over-think things and reading far too much into this as usual.

I'm hardly surprised.

 

jw

 

I thought the tweetstorm was rather self-explanatory

[BigBuff423]

4 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

McDermott's philosophy is CBs, for the most part, are interchangeable. That was proven out last year when two guys, including Gaines, filled in for Darby's loss.

There was also a belief, from what I remember, that Darby didn't exactly fit the defense.

 

jw

 

 

 

And that's fair, meaning McD has that conviction regarding how DBs are used. It's just one I disagreed with at the time and now considering how they've struggled to consistently find a CB2, it would seem imprudent to have dealt him when he was still on his Rookie contract. That said, it's not a major deal to me. I believe McD has the right approach to the game and his players and Beane has the football acumen to lead the team as a GM by acquiring the right pieces of talent and personality to be championship caliber. That said, all the potential in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless they activate that potential into real world wins. 

 

2019 holds the key for both these gentlemen and I believe it should be a razor's edge year: succeed, and you've demonstrated competence to secure at least two more years, fail to the extent this team looks similar next year as it does now and I don't think McD survives beyond the last game of 2019. But I do think Beane gets a chance to pick his HC if that were to happen, based on Pegula's history with Sabres and Bills and that Beane was hired after the fact of McD, leads me to think if anyone goes, it would be McD first....although I'm sincerely hoping the situation doesn't demand that type of action and winning has resolved all concerns. 

[Delete This Account]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I thought the tweetstorm was rather self-explanatory

 

me, too, but it appears some were confused by it.

perhaps, i should have typed slower.

 

?

 

jw

[Fan in San Diego]

I see why some people want to fire McDermott and Beane. But that would be short sighted. The only mistake they made was not signing another seasoned QB after trading away McCarron. It is what is at this point and we are stuck on the boat we have. Next year hopefully, the WR's OL and QB situation will be addressed. If they don't, well then they deserve to be fired.

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Late to this party, but let's clear up some things.

If several members of the media are going to follow this lazy and tired narrative in accusing the Bills if completely mishandling the QB situation, then perhaps they should at least ask a question or two to at least be fair. There was one asked on Tuesday, which is what sparked my thread.

 

And rather than simply following the tired narrative, someone needs to explain to me how else the quarterback situation needed to be handled.

 

One valid point made through the discussion on Twitter was the Bills needed to bring in another quarterback immediately after trading McCarron. Beane has acknowledged that as being a mistake.

Otherwise, I've yet to hear any valid rundown on how the quarterback situation has played out since March.

 

And no, don't respond to me about what about Tyrod?

That ship sailed because Tyrod refused to restructure his contract; the Bills would be handcuffed under the cap with it; and they got a valuable draft pick out of it that allowed them more room to trade up on draft day.

 

WEO, of course, is trying too hard to over-think things and reading far too much into this as usual.

I'm hardly surprised.

 

jw

Thanks for chiming in John

[Delete This Account]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

And that's fair, meaning McD has that conviction regarding how DBs are used. It's just one I disagreed with at the time and now considering how they've struggled to consistently find a CB2, it would seem imprudent to have dealt him when he was still on his Rookie contract. That said, it's not a major deal to me. I believe McD has the right approach to the game and his players and Beane has the football acumen to lead the team as a GM by acquiring the right pieces of talent and personality to be championship caliber. That said, all the potential in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless they activate that potential into real world wins. 

 

2019 holds the key for both these gentlemen and I believe it should be a razor's edge year: succeed, and you've demonstrated competence to secure at least two more years, fail to the extent this team looks similar next year as it does now and I don't think McD survives beyond the last game of 2019. But I do think Beane gets a chance to pick his HC if that were to happen, based on Pegula's history with Sabres and Bills and that Beane was hired after the fact of McD, leads me to think if anyone goes, it would be McD first....although I'm sincerely hoping the situation doesn't demand that type of action and winning has resolved all concerns. 

 

 

keep in mind, the Pegulas have now gone through that with the Sabres, staying the course after watching a team thoroughly under-achieve last year and seeing encouraging returns this year.

now, this Bills team this year isn't exactly under-achieving entirely, because this was always going to be a transitional year, and we're seeing the lumps result from it. that said, a case can be made that the offense is not playing up to even modest expectations.

 

this leads to the upcoming offseason and seeing what happens now that the BIlls are fully in a position to start adding talent.

can't judge Beane and/or McDermott entirely until that happens.

 

jw

[BuffaloBillyG]

24 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Late to this party, but let's clear up some things.

If several members of the media are going to follow this lazy and tired narrative in accusing the Bills if completely mishandling the QB situation, then perhaps they should at least ask a question or two to at least be fair. There was one asked on Tuesday, which is what sparked my thread.

 

And rather than simply following the tired narrative, someone needs to explain to me how else the quarterback situation needed to be handled.

 

One valid point made through the discussion on Twitter was the Bills needed to bring in another quarterback immediately after trading McCarron. Beane has acknowledged that as being a mistake.

Otherwise, I've yet to hear any valid rundown on how the quarterback situation has played out since March.

 

And no, don't respond to me about what about Tyrod?

That ship sailed because Tyrod refused to restructure his contract; the Bills would be handcuffed under the cap with it; and they got a valuable draft pick out of it that allowed them more room to trade up on draft day.

 

WEO, of course, is trying too hard to over-think things and reading far too much into this as usual.

I'm hardly surprised.

 

jw

There really weren't a ton of options in Buffalo's price range. They weren't going to overpay Bradford or Keenum. They only move I "might" have made is made the move for Seimian (believe the Vikes pulled him for a 7th), and even that's not a huge upgrade on Anderson. At the very least he had more starting experience that McCarron and shared a QB room with Manning for a bit. Again, not that hes going to solve any problems, just more an alternate name who would have come in earlier for a very low pick. 

[BigBuff423]

Just now, john wawrow said:

 

 

keep in mind, the Pegulas have now gone through that with the Sabres, staying the course after watching a team thoroughly under-achieve last year and seeing encouraging returns this year.

now, this Bills team this year isn't exactly under-achieving entirely, because this was always going to be a transitional year, and we're seeing the lumps result from it. that said, a case can be made that the offense is not playing up to even modest expectations.

 

this leads to the upcoming offseason and seeing what happens now that the BIlls are fully in a position to start adding talent.

can't judge Beane and/or McDermott entirely until that happens.

 

jw

 

To the bold statement, I completely agree. IMO, their fortunes with the Bills rise and fall based on 2019.