John Wawrow on the QB situation

[blacklabel]

14 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

People keep bringing up Kaepernick, but never stop to think that the dude doesn't really want to play unless he is played franchise starting QB money.  He turned down an offer from Denver and then sued the league for collusion.  The guy is a nut case.

 

It was reported that the Ravens were ready to make him an offer as well but he would've rejected it because he knew he'd be behind Flacco.

 

And honestly, I still don't get the love affair for Kaepernick. It's not like he was lights out over his last couple of seasons. He last played in 2016 where he had a 1-10 record as the starter. And his numbers over the last few seasons were even lower than Tyrod's. Kaep lucked out early in his career when SF had a solid defense. Oh, his career completion percentage is 59.8. I know another guy with a career completion percentage below 60 and he is regularly torn up by fans/media for it. But Kaep? Nobody bothers to mention his accuracy issues. Or the fact that he hasn't played professional football in 1.5 seasons. So I guess I just don't realize why people would think he could step in anywhere and be a solid QB.

[BuffaloHokie13]

34 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

Is this a joke? Why are people liking this post?

- You actually want CASE KEENUM to be the future of our franchise? He signed a 2 year deal with a better franchise to be a starter. We would need to offer at least 3 years.

- You would rather have TYROD TAYLOR than Harrison Phillips? Seriously? You disliked that trade?

- You want COLIN KAEPERNICK .... a player that would completely BLOW UP our locker room and potentially franchise?

 

...do you guys have zero concept of how to build for the future?

We got Harrison Phillips by trading Ron Darby to the Eagles for Jordan Matthews. That has absolutely nothing to do with Tyrod Taylor.

[Dr. Who]

15 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

It was reported that the Ravens were ready to make him an offer as well but he would've rejected it because he knew he'd be behind Flacco.

 

And honestly, I still don't get the love affair for Kaepernick. It's not like he was lights out over his last couple of seasons. He last played in 2016 where he had a 1-10 record as the starter. And his numbers over the last few seasons were even lower than Tyrod's. Kaep lucked out early in his career when SF had a solid defense. Oh, his career completion percentage is 59.8. I know another guy with a career completion percentage below 60 and he is regularly torn up by fans/media for it. But Kaep? Nobody bothers to mention his accuracy issues. Or the fact that he hasn't played professional football in 1.5 seasons. So I guess I just don't realize why people would think he could step in anywhere and be a solid QB.

The love affair is political. It has nothing to do with a rational evaluation of his actual football talent.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

When? What was Coach 's answer?

 

At the press conference.  "Yeah, I know Brandon [Beane] is always looking at the different options available to us. So, we'll leave it at that."

 

Typical BS. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

What is there to defend in the QB situation???  

 

• They got rid of a competent veteran QB in Taylor to save some $$$. 
• They signed a backup QB, McCarron, who plainly was looking for a starting gig to prove himself and saw Buffalo as a good place to do it.  Then they trade McCarron when he objected to being third string behind Nate "Picksix" Peterman on the very specious argument that Peterman looked better playing against scrubs than McCarron did playing against first stringers.
• The dead cap space the Bills incurred by trading Taylor and McCarron was around $10 million, but hey, that's okay because they saved millions in current salary by getting rid of these guys.  That extra cap space could have gotten them 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 better offensive players than the ones currently on the team, but dead cap is only "on the books" it's not actual $$ out of the owner's pockets.
• When Peterman crapped the bed in the season opener, the Bills were fine with going with raw rookie Josh Allen and the incompetent Peterman for a MONTH before they finally got around to adding a competent backup QB, in this case a washed up 35-year-old who hadn't played a snap in 2 years and hadn't started in 7. 
• Now, they're back to Picksix Peterman as the starter backed up by Matt Barkley who's only been on the team for a few days, but hey, the Pegulas are making a fat profit by filling the stadium while fielding the lowest paid roster in the NFL, so all's good.

 

 

Trading Taylor saved cap space, netted a 3rd round pick and eliminated the potential locker room divide with a new QB.

 

McCarron was flat out beat by Peterman at camp and “not what McD was expecting.”

 

Do you know how the cap works? The dead cap we got from trading McCarron and Taylor would have been regular cap hits if they were on the the team. If TT has a cap hit of 16M, and a dead cap hit of 10M if we trade him, we are SAVING 6M. You don’t get to spend Taylor’s cap hit on other people.

 

Agree and I would have added a guy earlier as well. Doesn’t make much of a difference if you aren’t trying to win football games.

 

How many teams in the league are good with injuries to two of their QB’s? Honestly.

[CountDorkula]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The love affair is political. It has nothing to do with a rational evaluation of his actual football talent.

Hes better than Peterman, hes better than Anderson

 

IS that rational enough for you?

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Trading Taylor saved cap space, netted a 3rd round pick and eliminated the potential locker room divide with a new QB.

 

McCarron was flat out beat by Peterman at camp and “not what McD was expecting.”

  

Do you know how the cap works? The dead cap we got from trading McCarron and Taylor would have been regular cap hits if they were on the the team. If TT has a cap hit of 16M, and a dead cap hit of 10M if we trade him, we are SAVING 6M. You don’t get to spend Taylor’s cap hit on other people.

  

Agree and I would have added a guy earlier as well. Doesn’t make much of a difference if you aren’t trying to win football games.

 

How many teams in the league are good with injuries to two of their QB’s? Honestly.

 

How many teams pulled their starter week 1 because he was so bad.

How many teams decided that their season long starter was going to be a guy who's only action was a 5 INT first half.

Peterman was never injured, he was benched.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

How's Keenum working out for Denver? As for the other two, it seemed pretty obvious to me that they didn't want either guy because you have to run a different offense to maximize them, as neither can run a passing game out of the pocket. And rebuilding teams don't want to have to change the offense. Even in a horrible season like this one at least the team is learning the system so that next year when they upgrade the offensive personnel

 

I see why people might want to ask those questions, but I think the answers are pretty obvious. Now, if Keenum was kicking butt in Denver, the Broncos would look like geniuses and the Bills like eejits for that Keenum decision. Yeah, Keenum's been better than anyone we have but he hasn't been that good and Denver has a lot better talent around Keenum than we have on offense.

 

IMHO Wawrow has an interesting point. If you think that's the narrative on this major problem, more questions should be asked right now, and also in the past.

 

 

 

How Keenum is doing in Denver doesn't have much to do with the question of why he wouldn't have been a better plan for Buffalo than Nate Peterman and AJM.

 

But since you asked, he's in his first year in that offense and he is 13th in yards, ahead of Dalton, Rivers, Brees, Stafford, Wentz, Trubisky, Newton, Smith, Wilson..

 

He has only 10 TDs, but that's more than Manning, Prescott, Smith, Mayfield....AND they have played Baltimore, KC twice and the Rams.  No other team has that brutal a schedule so far.

 

So I'm going to conclude it's working out for Denver, compared to that crapfest at QB last season.

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

Is this a joke? Why are people liking this post?

- You actually want CASE KEENUM to be the future of our franchise? He signed a 2 year deal with a better franchise to be a starter. We would need to offer at least 3 years.

- You would rather have TYROD TAYLOR than Harrison Phillips? Seriously? You disliked that trade?

- You want COLIN KAEPERNICK .... a player that would completely BLOW UP our locker room and potentially franchise?

 

...do you guys have zero concept of how to build for the future?

 

 

Look up...the entire point of this thread is flying over your head....

4 hours ago, fansince88 said:

Ask the Brown's. They may know the answer to this.

 

Baker Mayfield isn't on the Bills roster...

Edited November 2, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[BringBackOrton]

23 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Hes better than Peterman, hes better than Anderson

 

IS that rational enough for you?

 

How many teams pulled their starter week 1 because he was so bad.

How many teams decided that their season long starter was going to be a guy who's only action was a 5 INT first half.

Peterman was never injured, he was benched.

The Texans did it last year with Watson and Savage.

[PIZ]

I think it is obvious that we should have kept all of those trade up picks used on Josh Allen and just signed Nick Mullens in January 2018.  Another terrible blunder.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

How Keenum is doing in Denver doesn't have much to do with the question of why he wouldn't have been a better plan for Buffalo than Nate Peterman and AJM.

 

But since you asked, he's in his first year in that offense and he is 13th in yards, ahead of Dalton, Rivers, Brees, Stafford, Wentz, Trubisky, Newton, Smith, Wilson..

 

He has only 10 TDs, but that's more than Manning, Prescott, Smith, Mayfield....

 

So I'm going to conclude it's working out for Denver, compared to that crapfest at QB last season.

 

 

If you think that's worked out for Denver, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Denver's 3-5. Whereas last year at this point they were 3-5.

 

Last year they were the 13th ranked offense and this year they've moved to 17th.

 

Yeah, "Keenum only has 10 TDs, but that's more than Manning, Prescott, Smith, Mayfield ..." But he also had 10 INTs which is less than  ... nobody. Darnold and Winston have tied him at 10 and everybody else has fewer. Keenum's 10 TDs put him on track to beat Denver's last year's total of 19 by one. He has racked up more yards but he's got a passer rating of 83.0. Last year the Broncos put up an 84.5.

 

 

 

And while it's possible Case Keenum might have signed with Buffalo, is it likely? To a team that was obviously going to draft someone and had a receiver corps like ours?

[Yav]

Might be worth pointing a few things out. 

 

1. The Bills came into the season trying to clear off cap space, outbidding for a player wasn't going to happen.

2. Kaepernick is a horrible QB and yet expects to be paid top dollar - he can sit on the curb. 

3. That 5th round pick might be the first pick in the 5th round (essentially a 4th round pick) and the Bills have some damn good players that came out of the 5th round

 

Of the QBs that were available not many would look good playing behind the Bills horse ***** of an OL. 

 

I think the only argument that can be made is trading AJ away and even that I'm not so sure of simply because they couldn't trade Peterman for that 5th round pick. I do think we can all agree that Peterman is not the answer and shouldn't even be on the roster. Great guy but not an NFL QB. 

 

As for T2, not sure he'd be doing anything for the Bills other than keeping that forever 6-10 wheel going. The Bills making the playoffs was a surprise last year and they backed into that spot. The McBeans have a 3-4 year plan, we as fans can like it or not but I think its important to keep a staff together and give them the time to build a culture. Its obvious changing coaches ever 2-3 years isn't working. 

[CountDorkula]

14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

The Texans did it last year with Watson and Savage.

How is that relevant to the bills situation?

 

It's like when people bring up how bad the Rams were and say look the Rams were bad just like the Bills.

[Thurman#1]

45 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Hes better than Peterman, hes better than Anderson

 

IS that rational enough for you?

 

How many teams pulled their starter week 1 because he was so bad.

How many teams decided that their season long starter was going to be a guy who's only action was a 5 INT first half.

Peterman was never injured, he was benched.

 

 

The two injured QBs he's referring to are Anderson and Allen.

 

And while Tyrod is better than anyone we have, it would not have been rational to keep him, for financial reasons but also because one thing you want in a backup QB on a rebuilding team is a guy who will not require a different scheme. You want the team to use the scheme they hope to use going forward so they have a year's experience in it when they - hopefully - start to improve the next year. Maximizing Tyrod means switching the scheme around. And a rebuilding team also wants a backup who can be a QB whisperer to the young guy. There's no particular reason to think Tyrod is that.

 

A better QB? Yeah. A good fit? No, not at all.

 

But yeah, looking back, they sure should have brought in somebody, perhaps Anderson or Barkley as soon as they let McCarron go, or bringing in one of those two instead of McCarron. Though I thought going into the season that McCarron was better than Anderson or Barkley.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Thurman#1

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, Yav said:

Might be worth pointing a few things out. 

 

1. The Bills came into the season trying to clear off cap space, outbidding for a player wasn't going to happen.

2. Kaepernick is a horrible QB and yet expects to be paid top dollar - he can sit on the curb. 

3. That 5th round pick might be the first pick in the 5th round (essentially a 4th round pick) and the Bills have some damn good players that came out of the 5th round

 

Of the QBs that were available not many would look good playing behind the Bills horse ***** of an OL. 

 

I think the only argument that can be made is trading AJ away and even that I'm not so sure of simply because they couldn't trade Peterman for that 5th round pick. I do think we can all agree that Peterman is not the answer and shouldn't even be on the roster. Great guy but not an NFL QB. 

 

As for T2, not sure he'd be doing anything for the Bills other than keeping that forever 6-10 wheel going. The Bills making the playoffs was a surprise last year and they backed into that spot. The McBeans have a 3-4 year plan, we as fans can like it or not but I think its important to keep a staff together and give them the time to build a culture. Its obvious changing coaches ever 2-3 years isn't working. 

 

Since 2010 the Bills have had 33 5th rd picks plus. 

Matt Milano is the only one in that 8 years that showed anything.

 

I may even give you Karlos Williams for that one year.

 

 

Thats what a 5% success rate? 

 

[Yav]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

You keep saying would it change the season at all?  IMO yes it would. As bad as Anderson is, he atleast put up some yards and the offense looked a little respectable. Any other QB other then Allen or Picksix would be better. Allen is not ready to play and it shows by how he can't read defenses. 

Not so fast, take a look at the scores from all the games played:

 

Bills 3 @ Ravens 47 (QB Peterman)

Bills 20 vs Chargers 31 (QB Allen)

Bills 27 @ Vikings 6 (QB Allen)

Bills 0 @ Packers 22 (QB Allen)

Bills 13 vs Titans 12 (QB Allen)

Bills 12 @ Texans 20 (QB Allen/Peterman)

Bills 5 @ Colts 37 (QB Anderson)

Bills 6 vs Pats 25 (QB Anderson)

 

Out side of the Packers Allen had played good enough to get 2 wins and put some sort of points not the board and had he not gotten hurt in the Texans game, it was a very winnable game until Petermans pic 6 (I know Peterman scored the last TD), now Anderson is a vet and under him the bills average 5.5 points per game.

[SoTier]

56 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Trading Taylor saved cap space, netted a 3rd round pick and eliminated the potential locker room divide with a new QB.

 

McCarron was flat out beat by Peterman at camp and “not what McD was expecting.”

 

Do you know how the cap works? The dead cap we got from trading McCarron and Taylor would have been regular cap hits if they were on the the team. If TT has a cap hit of 16M, and a dead cap hit of 10M if we trade him, we are SAVING 6M. You don’t get to spend Taylor’s cap hit on other people.

 

Agree and I would have added a guy earlier as well. Doesn’t make much of a difference if you aren’t trying to win football games.

 

How many teams in the league are good with injuries to two of their QB’s? Honestly.

 

   Doh!  I didn't know all that.     Actually I did and I do.   Stop making excuses for incompetence.

 

That "cap space" that you're so worried about saving was attached to a competent NFL QB, a veteran who was an experienced and reliable starter and a proven good teammate.    Allen is a raw rookie who needed to sit for at least part of this season and could use some advise from a guy who's "been there, done that".   Taylor hasn't caused any kind of "locker room divide" in Cleveland in the very same situation that he would have had with the Bills (although apparently former Browns HC Hue Jackson did cause issues).  Where the hell would this "locker room divide" come from exactly?  

 

 

The Bills should not have signed McCarron at all.  If they didn't know that he wanted -- and expected -- to be the starter at least in the beginning of the season, then they had to be just about the only ones who didn't.  McCarron left a cushy backup gig in Cinci to look for an opportunity to be a starter.  McDermott claiming that McCarron wasn't what he "expected" is either an admission of his incompetence in handling players or an attempt to shift the blame to McCarron.

 

Moreover, I don't give a rat's scrawny behind how good Peterman looked in practice.  He doesn't have an NFL caliber arm and cannot make the throws that every QB, even an occasional backup, needs to be able to make.   The rest of the team knew that, which why the team played so crappy against Baltimore. The whole QB competition BS was just a reflection of the incompetence of the coaching staff ... and it was slanted so that it favored Peterman by scheduling him playing mostly against 2nd and 3rd stringers while McCarron faced first string players (which how he got hurt).

 

If the Bills aren't trying to win football games, then they should refund ticket holders' their money.    The NFL is a professional league, not a little kids' T-ball league where participation is more important than winning.

 

Maybe if the Bills hadn't traded away Cordy Glenn just because Dion Dawkins looked serviceable at LT and signed a better replacement for Eric Wood than Russell Bodine, they wouldn't have two injured quarterbacks.  They could have done that if they'd kept Glenn (they would then have had several more million in cap space), and moved Dawkins either to LG or RT, both positions that probably suit him better.  Of course, the idea of providing QBs with protection -- much less sure-handed targets -- has apparently become a foreign concept for the brainiacs at OBD since the ascent of McDermott and his henchman Beane. 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by SoTier

[87168]

15 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

People keep bringing up Kaepernick, but never stop to think that the dude doesn't really want to play unless he is played franchise starting QB money.  He turned down an offer from Denver and then sued the league for collusion.  The guy is a nut case.

he turned down an offer from Denver after they offered a significant pay cut. essentially 2/3 of what he could have made.

 

for those who actually care to listen to the man himself, and not some tone deaf GM or owner, he's stated multiple times that signing is not contingent on starting. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

The love affair is political. It has nothing to do with a rational evaluation of his actual football talent.

 

Cal!ing BS on this one.  I want Colin on the team and Don t give flying rats you know what about the political aspect.  I wanted us to draft him.  I just wanna win. 

[87168]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

The love affair is political. It has nothing to do with a rational evaluation of his actual football talent.

please. speak for yourself. his stats and resume speak volumes.

 

the disdain for this man, however, "is  political. It has nothing to do with a rational evaluation of his actual football talent."

 

the Bills have signed Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, and now Matt Barkley. do we really want o discuss talent evaluation?

Edited November 2, 2018 by 87168

[May Day 10]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is easy:

 

How about "yeah, outbid Elway for Keenum".

 

or:

 

"was it wise to get rid of TT when your plan was to sit Allen behind a starting QB?"

 

Or:

 

"Kaepernick too much for Mr. Pegula to handle?"

 

 

What's the issue here?  That the press can't ask a question unless they have a followup?  I mean who hasn't asked about Bridgewater, TT, AJM already in this context?

Asking those questions would have been a waste of time anyways.  McDermott/Beane would get all huffy and provide a non-answer

 

For starters, yes, hanging onto Tyrod is probably a better path than they took

Alex Smith would have been great, although a lot of us would be unhappy to give assets (had a 3rd from Tyrod anyways), as would Fitzpatrick.  McCown, Bradford, trade for Foles, McCarron staying, Keenum, etc.  

 

 

Im not/was not even a big salvage-2018 guy.  I am just troubled that the QB room for the draft's biggest project QB that the consensus said needed to sit awhile and learn contained only Nathan Peterman.  As a result, Allen got to "sit and learn" for a half, after losing reps all training camp to McCarron (and Peterman) anyways.  

Edited November 2, 2018 by May Day 10