Brian Dabol's Offense

[BillsFan130]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

When you take the Quarterback runs out (which are not currently an option with Josh injured) they have the 3rd worst running game too.  There are no strengths on this offense - that is the problem.

Oh I agree. But I still think you have a much better chance of converting a first down running it on 3rd and 2 or 3. Cause if you’re short by a yard, then run it again. (If the field position applies of course)

[Maine-iac]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The offense has no strengths, especially when you consider that keying on a good RB is about the easiest thing in the world to do if you have no fear of either the QB, the receivers, or the pass blocking ability of the line. 

My problem with this is that Daboll is not only in charge of playcalling but who's on the field and also making sure they know the playbook.  When you know they are keying on the run and you need runs that pick up positive yards Daboll needs to sit Shady and put Ivory in there.  When they are constantly calling time outs because people don't know where to line up some blame has to fall on him.  All of that said I thought he has called a number of decent games.  Execution is my largest problem with the offense and to this point in the season I'm not jumping on the "fire him" wagon but there does need to be visible improvement over the course of the season.  Even with the players he's fielding.   I've come away from the last couple of games thinking that McCoy is really handcuffing him.  If we start games off trying to establish the run and McCoy starts off each series with negative runs we fall flat on our faces.  If we bang out 3 and 4 yard runs a few times and then work Shady in on some screen passes or wheel routes we could have them loosened up by the second half and then McCoy might hit a home run or two.  Used to argue the same thing with Freddie and Spiller.  Jackson should have been starting long before he did.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Maine-iac

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

yeah ok, we run alot, you're just pissed and want a scapgoat, McVay couldn't make these players look good.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.  We do not run a lot.  We ran a lot in our two wins.  We passed too much in our losses.

[Reed83HOF]

There is an article this week regarding this topic:

 

https://theathletic.com/623370/2018/10/31/what-was-up-with-the-wildcat-analyzing-brian-dabolls-eccentric-playcalling-vs-the-patriots-through-film/

 

Daboll was dealt a tough hand in 2018. The organization only has 30 percent of its entire salary cap (fifth least) this season committed to the offensive side of the ball and the lack of talent has shown every Sunday. But the Buffalo area native isn’t making any excuses.

 

“We all have a job to do” stated Daboll, “and my job is to help run the offense, put guys in position, improve them and win games, and right now we are falling short of that.”

 

Though the Bills lack talent, we can still evaluate the job Daboll has done so far. It comes down to what his intentions were with each play and if he put his players in the best positions to succeed.

 

The Bills offense is embarrassing — there’s no sugarcoating it — but fans do need to consider what Daboll is working with, which is very little talent at the skill positions. He’s also had to gameplan for three different quarterbacks, including whittling down the playbook for Anderson, who had six practices under his belt before his second start against the Patriots. 

 

All things considered, it appeared Daboll understood his opponent, what they were going to show on defense and how to attack. But, with the Bills’ execution lacking, the Patriots were able to run away with the game in the fourth quarter.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Reed83HOF

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, fansince88 said:

@Buffalo Barbarian Great post.I have been of the opinion that we need to stay the course like this for another year. 4 weeks ago the brilliant minds of TBD wanted the DC fired too.  We really are not as smart as it seems. I don't want Allen learning a new offence next year.

I don't think there is any problem wiht the offense...It is how Brian has been doing the play calling has been suspect.

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.  We do not run a lot.  We ran a lot in our two wins.  We passed too much in our losses.

Running or not running is HIGHLY dependent on the score of the game. What was the run pass ratio in each of the last two games while the games were still competitive?

 

Until the Colts score was 14-0, the Bills ran it 8 times and passed it 8  times. Of the first 29 plays against the Pats, 14 were running plays and 15 passing plays. Outside of the first run by McCoy, most of the other runs did nothing. That rushing ratio is significantly above the league average.

Edited November 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

The thing I don't understand Is why do people either completely blame it on the lack of talent, or completely blame it on Daboll?

 

In my opinion it is BOTH. The talent sucks, but at the same time Daboll has been awful as well.

 

Not a fan of his predictable play calling, throwing it on 3rd and shorts when they have Derek Anderson as their QB, running it on 2nd and longs into a stacked box, and his game planning as well. (I still don't understand how he thought running east/west against a Bills Belichick defence was a good strategy)

 

It does not have to be one or the other. It is very possible and actually even very probable that the talent and the OC is killing them at the same time.

This is what's so god*amn frustrating about the current state of affairs.

 

Everyone gets more time because there's a valid excuse to be made that it's someone else's fault. The QB sucks, but that's only because the offensive talent sucks. The OC sucks, but that's only because the QB's suck. 

 

At some point, it's OK to say they all suck.

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't think there is any problem wiht the offense...It is how Brian has been doing the play calling has been suspect.

How so, specifically?

[Coach Tuesday]

I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll leaves to take a college OC (or lower-tier HC) job at the end of the year.  Not only has he been given zero support from the FO in terms of personnel, he hasn't even been allowed to hire his own staff - he's saddled with McD's horrible hires coaching the line and quarterback.  He's being set up to fail and if he's smart, he'll try to save his resume somewhere else.

[BuffaloHokie13]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When you take the Quarterback runs out (which are not currently an option with Josh injured) they have the 3rd worst running game too.  There are no strengths on this offense - that is the problem.

DVOA has us as the 29th rush offense (-19.5% with 32 being -26.8%) and the 32nd pass offense by an absurd margin (-71.0% with 31 being -37.8%).

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

DVOA has us as the 29th rush offense (-19.5% with 32 being -26.8%) and the 32nd pass offense by an absurd margin (-71.0% with 31 being -37.8%).

 

Feels about right. 

[John from Riverside]

37 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll leaves to take a college OC (or lower-tier HC) job at the end of the year.  Not only has he been given zero support from the FO in terms of personnel, he hasn't even been allowed to hire his own staff - he's saddled with McD's horrible hires coaching the line and quarterback.  He's being set up to fail and if he's smart, he'll try to save his resume somewhere else.

Lets see what happens here......

 

The fact that Deboll is still here despite the horrid offensive output actually leads me to beleive he may ore pull in the offseason on asst coach hires on the offensive side of the ball

 

 

[bills11]

Dabolls offence obviously is rooted in the pats system..but it's definitely his own spin on their variant of the e.p . We don't seem to run most of their usual plays which personnel has alot to do with. I think in year 2 well see the playbook open up more because there's alot of plays daboll hasn't had a chance to run due to lack of talent 

[Fadingpain]

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

[FistingBot]

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting. No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo. Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

37 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

 

This is wrong. 

 

It is not that Allen isn't good, it is that he is a rookie, and an extremely raw one at that.  The rest of the QBs obviously suck, but to lump in Allen with them creates a fallacy. 

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you're wrong I don't think he is even in the top 5 problems on offense.

 

The talent stinks. Not just a bit. A lot. It is historically bad.

I did mention that the lack of talent was a problem and coaches are supposed to make do with what they have on the roster. I just think Bills fans are using this as the ONLY excuse and the talent isn't as bad as they make it sound. 

 

Look at the first five games to see the discrepancy between the run vs pass:

Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Vikings 38 rushes vs 22 passes. WIN

Green Bay 16 rushes vs 38 passes.

Titans 43 rushes vs 20 passes.  WIN

Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes.

Colts 22 rushes vs 31 passes.

Patriots 19 rushes vs 41 passes. 

 

Now, some of the passes Daboll was asking the rookie QB in to make are middle to deep passes with a bad line and knowing he has difficulty reading defense and setting protections. What's wrong with that picture? The Run game gets stuffed so he stops calling run plays and calls for more passes KNOWING he is making a rookie QB carry the offense. 

 

Now look at the Vikings game and the Bills rushed 38 times for 128 yards, 2 TDs. The thing is QB Josh Allen 10 rushes for 39 yards had both of those rushing TDs. Passing Josh Allen was 15 for 22, for 196 yards, 1 TD.  Bills 38 rushes vs 22 passes which is a reverse of what happened in the first two games. 

 

The Bills got the lead early and the run game worked, the passing game worked and the Bills literally dominated the Vikings 27-6.  So why didn't this happen in other games? 

 

It did against the Titans, the Bills rushed for 43 times vs 20 passes, controlled the clock more and won the game.

 

Against the Patriots Anderson threw for 290 yards! Alas, 19 rushes vs 41 passes. Anderson can make some of those throws that Allen and Peterman don't see and it doesn't always help with no run game. What QB would work in this offense without the run game to support him? 

 

LeSean McCoy is by far the best talent on this offense and this OC needs to find a way to get him the ball in space in both the run game and pass game. Gailey could do it... why cant Daboll? 

[Coach Tuesday]

51 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

 

100% wrong, impressively so.  Literally you can't be much more wrong than this.

 

The reasons you can't yet evaluate Allen are the same reasons you can't yet evaluate Daboll - the surrounding cast is too poor.

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting.

 

No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo.

 

Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

Very well said!

 

It almost makes me wonder if Daboll is still on Robert Kraft's payroll to throw games. Then I look at his history and say nah, he just sucks and always has. Now that Patriots game was week 8 and I'm kind of surprised a change wasn't made this week. Although you might be right in that he won't make it past the bye week. 

 

The team has an experienced NFL HC and OC in WR coach Terry Robiskie.

[BuffaloHokie13]

25 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting. No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo. Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

If anything I think Daboll stays and requests his own staff. Out with Castillo, Culley, and Robiskie; in with coaches of his choosing instead of the ones he was saddled with.