dtgolder Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. 2 2
Perry Turtle Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 It's telling that the majority of teams who passed on Mahomes have defensive-minded coaches or have a 'settled' QB situation (Chargers, Titans, Bengals). Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, was able to see the potential in Mahomes and traded up to make him the 10th pick. The Bears took Trubisky under Johnn Fox, a defensive-minded coach , but it's apparent that Mahomes is the better QB. Maybe the key to drafting a great QB is to have a more offensive-minded guy make the selection. 4 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said: It's telling that the majority of teams who passed on Mahomes have defensive-minded coaches or have a 'settled' QB situation (Chargers, Titans, Bengals). Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, was able to see the potential in Mahomes and traded up to make him the 10th pick. The Bears took Trubisky under Johnn Fox, a defensive-minded coach , but it's apparent that Mahomes is the better QB. Maybe the key to drafting a great QB is to have a more offensive-minded guy make the selection. Right now, still too early to tell. Wentz looked way better than Goff initially. Different story this year 1 1
yungmack Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Four of the nine teams you cite were set at QB (Tenn, SD, Cin, Car.), three are historically inept at evaluating QBs (Chi, Jets, Cleve) and one is like the Bills, 20 years behind the reality of today's NFL so foolishly overvalued the RB position (Jax). As for SF, who knows? 1
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Perry Turtle said: It's telling that the majority of teams who passed on Mahomes have defensive-minded coaches or have a 'settled' QB situation (Chargers, Titans, Bengals). Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, was able to see the potential in Mahomes and traded up to make him the 10th pick. The Bears took Trubisky under Johnn Fox, a defensive-minded coach , but it's apparent that Mahomes is the better QB. Maybe the key to drafting a great QB is to have a more offensive-minded guy make the selection. If Andy Reid is so smart, how come in all his years in Philly he passed on guys like Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, and Brees just to name a few off the top of my head? This goes back to the OP's point, not nearly as easy to predict as some want to think in hind sight. And lets give Mahomes more than half a season before we start sculpting his HOF bust here too. 1 1
HappyDays Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 I didn't want Mahomes anymore than I wanted Allen. Historically, strong armed QBs with poor footwork, suspect decision making, and inconsistent accuracy don't make it. Especially coming from an air raid offense. Mahomes might be the guy that breaks the trend. I am hoping Allen is as well. 16 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: If Andy Reid is so smart, how come in all his years in Philly he passed on guys like Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, and Brees just to name a few off the top of my head? Not to mention if Andy Reid knew Mahomes would be THIS good in his offense he wouldn't have waited until #10 to trade up. He would have given up a whole draft to move up to #2 if that's what was needed. Trying to predict how QBs will turn out might be impossible. 2
mannc Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, yungmack said: Four of the nine teams you cite were set at QB (Tenn, SD, Cin, Car.), three are historically inept at evaluating QBs (Chi, Jets, Cleve) and one is like the Bills, 20 years behind the reality of today's NFL so foolishly overvalued the RB position (Jax). As for SF, who knows? Jax also belongs in the “historically inept at evaluating QBs” category, having passed on Big Ben for a WR bust and taking a punter (!) with the pick immediately before Russell Wilson was selected by Seattle. Oh, and they used the third overall pick in a great draft to select Blake Bortles.
CuddyDark Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Apparently KC was scouting Mahomes for years.That's the story coming out of KC anyway. They believe he would be good for years before he was drafted.
billybob71 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 and with all the research and predicting these teams do alot of it comes down to luck and good fortune Thats why u should take a qb every year until you find one. The bills should take one next year and the next year etc etc.Until one of these guys pans out.
zow2 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Mahomes himself has said that Andy Reid is a genius. Reid's coaching and their weapons around Mahomes have probably tapped into his highest potential. I just don't recall anyone in the local or national media pounding the table for the Bills to draft Mahomes and/or saying after the draft how it was a horrible miss by Buffalo. It's all 20/20 hindsight stuff. In addition, the Bills got a pretty darn good CB with the KC pick at a huge value, based on where Tre was picked and how good he turned out to be. I recall in that draft if we were going QB, I wanted Deshaun Watson. 1
thenorthremembers Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Predicting Mahomes to be this good this fast was almost impossible. While he threw for a ton of yards in college and completed a high number of passes, neither of those things was unusual for a quarterback from Texas Tech. When it came to intangibles, he wasn't a winner, he didn't start a ton of games, and he tended to throw a lot of interceptions. Additionally, his mechanics looked kind of bad on tape. He stood out because he had a massive arm and was a uniquely gifted athlete. Sound familiar? When compared to Watson, he was nowhere near as special coming out when it came to the intangibles. And when you watched Trubisky, his tape kind of screamed, pro style QB who appeared ready despite a low number of starts. I am going to be honest, I disliked Mahomes about as much as I did Allen. Never saw it coming. Thought for sure Watson would be the best of the three. But I give a ton of respect to Reid. I think he is an amazingly underrated coach. And as for not taking those other great quarterbacks, he already had McNabb who is another underrated NFLer. 3
DC Tom Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 You know...I'm going to give up on the Bills and become a Chiefs fan, just so I CAN HEAR LESS ABOUT FRICKIN' MAHOMES!!! 2 3
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, dtgolder said: Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. Posed this question to someone else - do you think Buffalo makes the playoffs in 2017 with Pat Mahomes at pick 10? I'd argue no... Tyrod probably still would've started, Mahomes probably doesn't take the job from him as he's raw and Dennison was a terrible OC. I think the talent deficiencies on the offense would have also made him struggle considerably more. Also - Tre white literally won us 2 games last year and without him we probably had the worst CBs in the NFL. Edited October 31, 2018 by dneveu
BringBackOrton Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, dtgolder said: Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. In a league where only the top 12 teams make the playoffs every season, saying it's not so bad because the Bills aren't the only dumb ones in the bottom ten is quite a take. Edited October 31, 2018 by BringBackOrton
The_Dude Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, dtgolder said: Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. Yeah, it’s amazing how bad prople are at their jobs in the NFL. It was obvious the kid was a Hall if Famer coming out of college. I notice people have quit mocking me recently for saying that. Two years ago everybody told me how dumb I was.
LSHMEAB Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I didn't want Mahomes anymore than I wanted Allen. Historically, strong armed QBs with poor footwork, suspect decision making, and inconsistent accuracy don't make it. Especially coming from an air raid offense. Mahomes might be the guy that breaks the trend. I am hoping Allen is as well. Not to mention if Andy Reid knew Mahomes would be THIS good in his offense he wouldn't have waited until #10 to trade up. He would have given up a whole draft to move up to #2 if that's what was needed. Trying to predict how QBs will turn out might be impossible. My only counterpoint would be that Mahomes was ultra productive in college and Allen was not. I admit that I was a bit skeptical of what that production actually represented considering the offensive system. What irks me is when people deny what they're witnessing. It's clear as day Mahomes is a star and I think if people were intellectually honest, they would acknowledge that. 1
technobot Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Long time lurker, first time poster: my 2 cents: Mahomes would have been wasted on this iteration of the Bills, especially considering the roster teardown that just occurred. We don't have the pieces nor the coaches to cultivate/develop him (yet). I believe he's got enough talent that we would have seen obvious flashes but my guess is he would not be tearing the league up like he is now. TBH, he would probably be running for his life. Edited October 31, 2018 by technobot 3
Fadingpain Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Two wrongs don't make a right. It is hard to foresee who will be good or great. That's why a team like Buffalo should have a system in place where they are taking a stab at QBs constantly, almost expecting them not to pan out. When one does, you're all set for a decade and more and have a chance to win a championship.
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Passing on Mahomes set this franchise back enormously. Try to spin it if you want, but passing on both him and Watson was an epic mistake.
mannc Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Passing on Mahomes set this franchise back enormously. Try to spin it if you want, but passing on both him and Watson was an epic mistake. There’s really no serious argument to the contrary.
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