bigduke6 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 im gonna assume that Pegula is an intelligent man. ill also assume he will try and build the Bills the same way he has the sabres, through high draft picks. mainly because we cant get free agents to come here unless we grossly overpay for them, and that in the end hurts the team. so u cant get top free agents, free agents u do get most likely are close to garbage or else they wouldnt be here in the first place, u have a new front office that only has one full draft in the books. now, building through the draft takes time, clearly, 1 year isnt enough. You could fire everybody, sure, but then u start all over again with another guy who wants "his" guys, players who fit "his" system. which takes more time. what to do? i firmly believe that the FO had no plans to finish with the record they did last year. It was an unofficial/official tank year. This was the year we got our QB. Maybe they got the QB they really wanted, also possible they didnt and put on a good face in light of the situation. again, what to do? IMO, u give everybody some more rope. near constant turnover of players, coaches, and FO staff has made this team a mess. 1 step forward, 2 steps back when u clean house over and over again. stick with people, let them work it out. some things cant be fixed overnight. plenty of coaches and players who have been terrible in one place then made good eventually given time. if you try and fix a problem with a bandaid, the problem doesnt get fixed, eventually the bandaid falls off and youre right back where u started. patience. one more thing, build the friggen offensive line first. dont worry about "skill" players. most important players on the field are both lines and the QB. do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, wnyguy said: I don't understand anyone defending the front office for putting an offense this bad on the field. Agreed. This goes way beyond "process' in terms of ineptitude. Every single decision on WR trades/signings, FA acquisitions and offensive coaching hires has been ineffective to downright bad. That's a remarkable string in a league where "hidden talent" is uncovered all the time. I was down for a sub-500 season, but this level of inept offensive production is breathtaking. They have until week 8 of next season to turn it around or the whole 'process' will begin again. Rinse and repeat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Like A Mofo said: Fair enough, we will see if the changes they made with the Beane and McDermott hiring prove that the Pegulas have learned from past mistakes. My general point is without ownership being strong at the top, sustained success will never be achieved, which is what we all want, regardless of GM, coach and even QB. I am not one ready to fire Beane and McD today like some. Beane thinks outside the box and I like that. Give him at least till 2020 and we will reassess at that time. I guess my question would be how one defines strong ownership. Some like Kraft get more involved in day to day things and are successful and others like Snyder or Jerry aren't successful. Some stay hands off and it works, some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: The plan is a bad one. That's the point. They didnt need to make this a 5 year rebuild. They wont see it through unless they have an outstanding offseason. Based on their complete lack of foresight I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: And hopefully Pegula learned a lesson if this is what happens. I won't hold my breath for Pegs learning anything. He strikes me more and more as a Chauncey Gardner-type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I agree. We should fire everyone each time we lose. Then people will know not to lose and we will win all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Ittakestime said: Brandon actually brought in some nice players. Aaron Maybin is here to see you, sir...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: McDermott and Beane are joined at the hip. They deserve a chance to fix the offense by adding talent to support Allen with the hope that he's the franchise QB. They have through 2019 at a minimum. I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC. I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, Reed83HOF said: I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC. I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change... There's definitely a case to be made for this. I think he's very much stuck in a time warp with regard to his philosophy/approach to offensive football in the modern day NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished. Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball. Not one. The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it. The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured. There is no excuse for this - none. Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB. Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason. Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches. Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass. Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play... This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be. No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so. Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley. I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him. Why wait? I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that? Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason. Now is the time to make the change. And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right. They are clueless. If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired. But they probably won't. Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward. People can say “fire Beane. Fire McDermott. Fire Daboll.” None if this happen tomorrow and probably won’t happen in January. The one guy I can see getting the axe is Denny Crossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished. Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball. Not one. The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it. The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured. There is no excuse for this - none. Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB. Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason. Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches. Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass. Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play... This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be. No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so. Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley. I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him. Why wait? I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that? Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason. Now is the time to make the change. And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right. They are clueless. If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired. But they probably won't. Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward. to be fair to the 2017 wr group they really had no one to throw it to them-----which folds back to the responsibility of the GM 6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC. I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change... gotta give McB credit for getting guys to give him 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 This place is solid gold. I think I just got hit with a piece of the falling sky. McBeane will get a fair shot to finish executing their plan. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not but I am fairly certain that if we just continually turnover the staff, we'll continue going nowhere. 1 hour ago, mbossman2 said: So Beane and/or McDermmot should be fired. If you advocate for that, tell us all: who are you going to get to replace them? Anybody you put forth has be to willing to come here after you have just canned the HC and/or GM after a year and a half. This is one of the points I tried to make in the fire McD thread. What coach or GM worth a damn will want to come here if we keep pulling the plug so quickly? 23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: And hopefully Pegula learned a lesson if this is what happens. Build off the talent you have in place already. Don't trade it just because of "culture" and "process". But what if those players, as physically talented as they are, only add laziness and selfishness to that culture? All while taking up very large chunks of cap space. I hate to use them as an example because I don't want to put McD in the same category as Belicheat but look at the "Patriot* way". It doesn't matter how talented a guy is, if he doesn't get with the plan and do his job to the best of his ability every singe play, he's gone. Belicheat was that way from day #1 in Cleveland before he was the hooded one. All 53 need to buy in and move forward in the same direction for a team to be successful. Those who don't end up being cancers in the locker room. Plenty of other teams have gotten rid of talented players for that very reason as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: There's definitely a case to be made for this. I think he's very much stuck in a time warp with regard to his philosophy/approach to offensive football in the modern day NFL. I can't kill him for it yet, because that area of the team has been torn down and not rebuilt - I have no clue what his "vision" is at this point. I can kill someone or many people for addressing the defense instead of the offense this past offseason. Mostly due to this being a strong defensive draft coming up, lack of good offensive weapons available in this upcoming wave of FA and the fact that we took a QB at 7 which was always part of our plans. I get there were some financial constraints, but we screwed the pooch a bit there IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, Reed83HOF said: I can't kill him for it yet, because that area of the team has been torn down and not rebuilt - I have no clue what his "vision" is at this point. I can kill someone or many people for addressing the defense instead of the offense this past offseason. Mostly due to this being a strong defensive draft coming up, lack of good offensive weapons available in this upcoming wave of FA and the fact that we took a QB at 7 which was always part of our plans. I get there were some financial constraints, but we screwed the pooch a bit there IMO... He has repeatedly said that you have to run the ball and be tough in Buffalo with weather as a consideration. I find this troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 If this is still happening after this upcoming draft and free agency....I am totally on board with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Who are we talking about? Is Watkins a lockeroom cancer to the Chiefs right now? Watkins ruined the Rams last year and this season he is single handedly sabotaging the Chiefs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Who are we talking about? Is Watkins a lockeroom cancer to the Chiefs right now? The only one of those guys that you can honestly say was a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour on a consistent basis was Dareus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Watkins ruined the Rams last year and this season he is single handedly sabotaging the Chiefs. no, no he didn't. did you miss Sunday's game? if two TDs is sabotage, then please, sign the Bills up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: He has repeatedly said that you have to run the ball and be tough in Buffalo with weather as a consideration. I find this troubling. There is an element of truth about it - you can't build dome team here and the running game is still important (Gurley & the Rams, Saints, Chiefs) and the players left on our offense are still vestiges of those systems from Marrone and Rex. As a bills fan and seeing what we have done in the past with this, I entirely understand the concern. He also cut his coaching chops under Andy Reid, so I do have some hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigduke6 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 some of u act like Watkins wanted to resign here.....from all appearances he most likely wouldnt have. He wanted too much and he was injury prone while here. Not a real hard decision to get what u could for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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