CuddyDark Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, mbossman2 said: So Beane and/or McDermmot should be fired. If you advocate for that, tell us all: who are you going to get to replace them? Anybody you put forth has be to willing to come here after you have just canned the HC and/or GM after a year and a half. If the Raiders fire McKenzie I'd hire him under Beane with a title like director of football operations.
iinii Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Greybeard said: This IS the process. Watch Gruden follow suit. They weren't meant to make the playoffs last year. That threw everything off. Watch Gruden ride off into the Vegas Sunset with Davis’ money.
BillsVet Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The offense needs a complete makeover. Besides Dawkins, McCoy if he's not traded, Allen if he progress, and maybe Clay, which of the other 7 starters would you want back? Getting this done in one off season is going to be some heavy lifting.. They do not have the resources in one off-season to surround any QB with the skill position players to win games. Not even with ~80M in cap room and their picks. First, McBeane don't strike me as the types who'll spend big in UFA. Second, because building a competent offense is far more difficult than building an excellent defense. Not to mention, the value for doing the former is far greater than the latter, something McCoach insists isn't the case. He still thinks he'll win with tough defense, running the ball, and playing it safe on offense.
CookieG Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said: I highly, HIGHLY doubt it Which part? You know, before they got here, in 2016, the Bills O actually scored more than the Chiefs. And in TD's the Bills 2016 offense scored more TD's than KC by a dozen. (46-34). They had similar cap situations. For the most part, the dismantling of the Bills' O was due to not being "their" guys. The problem is, after 2 years, they've shown no ability to put it back together. Im not one to say "fire Beane". But I am saying that he, or McD or both better bring in someone to build the offense for them. They're about as far off in this area as a tandem can be. At the very least, after 2 years, they should have had the offense stacked with young prospects. 1
iinii Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, HappyDays said: So you're saying the Bills should have had the foresight to predict their top 2 offensive linemen would retire in the same season? That's crazy talk. Honestly I think our line is good enough at pass blocking by modern NFL standards, but below average at rush blocking. We wanted a more run heavy offense this year because we have a rookie QB but it isn't working out. You could have said the same thing about our defense before last season. They made the defense respectable in one offseason, and now in two offseasons it has become a top 5 defense. I'm not expecting an elite offense next year. But I do believe with the amount of resources we have that we can build a respectable offense, and the defense COULD be elite next year. An elite defense with a respectable offense is a contender. Of course maybe they'll fail and they'll misuse all their resources and the offense will still be garbage. But I'm patient enough to see how it goes. A lot of it depends on Allen making a big jump in year 2. That big jump has long odds. As I said multiple times at the beginning of the season Allen should have been redshirted. He will learn very little behind the current line he plays behind and the mediocre talent around him, other than running for his life. Why put your number one asset in harms way when there is only a pretense of winning?
JoeF Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) Matt Milano, Taron Johnson, getting Shaq Lawson to play to his potential, Tre De, Harrison Phillips, the development of Tremaine Edmunds in a short period of time, Poyer, Hyde, Getting Kyle Williams to buy in; Star took a lot of crap at the beginning of the year but he is a fit; Jordan Phillips appears to be a find. This D building took a season and a half. The Offense is a ***** show. No doubt. The line sucks; there is no skill position talent and the best QB on the team (by far) has an elbow injury and hasn't played the last 9 quarters. However, McBeane can find talent and build. They have already proven it on the D side of the ball and that was their first focus. They said it when they were hired-- build the D and fix the cap issues. They are working that plan. Poyer, Star, Murphy and Hyde weren't exactly tier-1 free agents. They fit the D plan and the Bills didn't really overpay in my opinion. All had other offers. Murphy: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/free-agency-looming-redskins-offer-contract-trent-murphy-sources Star: https://www.catscratchreader.com/2018/3/5/17075718/is-nfl-carolina-panthers-defensive-tackle-star-lotulelei-worth-4-years-40-million Give them a chance on building the O this offseason and next. I agree that their track record thus far on O sucks. Specifically, they could have addressed the QB mentor issue and WR and did not. They could have fired the OLine coach, brought in a real QB Coach and done more of a deeper dive on the OC position. However, in my opinion, the biggest weakness, the O-line, was not their doing. Wood and Richie's situations were unique and there was no real way to replace them. Terry and Kim have bought into the plan. We are stuck with them for 2 more seasons whether we want them or not. You can come here to whine and complain...you can call WGR....you can write your congressional member...but changing out plans every two years is insane and a path to nowhere. Calling for their heads right now is just frustrating yourself. It ain't gonna happen. You'd be mentally happier not watching for the rest of this season and next. Edited October 30, 2018 by JoeF 1 1
Roundybout Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, CookieG said: Which part? You know, before they got here, in 2016, the Bills O actually scored more than the Chiefs. And in TD's the Bills 2016 offense scored more TD's than KC by a dozen. (46-34). They had similar cap situations. For the most part, the dismantling of the Bills' O was due to not being "their" guys. The problem is, after 2 years, they've shown no ability to put it back together. Im not one to say "fire Beane". But I am saying that he, or McD or both better bring in someone to build the offense for them. They're about as far off in this area as a tandem can be. At the very least, after 2 years, they should have had the offense stacked with young prospects. Right. The Chiefs offense was awful. They did not have a TD to a wide receiver for half the season as I recall. That's why you don't just change front offices as fast as you change your underwear. They deserve one more year to bring some offensive talent.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, BillsVet said: . He still thinks he'll win with tough defense, running the ball, and playing it safe on offense. It could work, but this assumes that we are dominating the LOS and have explosive RBs that can take over a game. Neither is happening right now. Elite RBs are pretty cheap. You could have two superb backs for under the cost of one elite WR.
iinii Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Kevin1778 said: lol. And then failed to sign all those great offensive lineman that are so easy to find because there are so many available. Apparently o-lineman will be plentiful and ready for a big payday NEXT year, like free beer tomorrow.
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnC said: The regime excruciatingly put themselves in a position that they wanted to be in. They wanted to rework the roster and the cap structure. The issue comes down to could they have accomplished what they set out to do with a more incremental and less dismantling approach? As demonstrated by their actions they clearly devised a full throttle strategy to take their hits up front in order to establish a more clean slate divorced from the past. As you noted what they do this offseason with the position they are in will determine whether that strategy will have worked. Now that they have the wherewithal will they use it wisely to address many of the holes that they themselves have created? There are many who are in a panic how this season has materialized. I'm not. It shouldn't have been a surprise. Because of the plain view of shedding of players and salaries every credible analyst predicted how this season would unfold for this rebuilding franchise. My question to the frantic fans who are in a state of frenzy is when an organization makes a decision to rebuild what did you expect? Smooth sailing and immediate results? Let's get serious and deal with the real world. Fantasy is not the harsh reality of this gruesome process. If you want to seriously judge then wait for the offseason and next draft and see how the roster is being bolstered or not. And wait at least until next year to make a decision as to whether Josh Allen is capable of being a franchise qb. I expected it to be pretty bad too. I am not panicking but some of the games have been borderline unwatchable. You can't put that product on the field two years in a row. That is why I say they don't just need to be better next year. They need to look like they are on the cusp of something.
BillsFan130 Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) You make very valid points OP. I wouldn't say fire them yet though. I think you have to give them next year to see how Allen progresses. If they have anything remotely close to the same offence next year though, then you have to fire them. Because it really is unacceptable Edited October 30, 2018 by billsfan11
Ittakestime Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Yeah he was so good he got us to 9-7 once and left us in cap hell Only bad GMs blame the cap. Good GMs will constantly restructure. There is no such thing as cap hell to creative GMs.
MAJBobby Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished. Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball. Not one. The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it. The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured. There is no excuse for this - none. Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB. Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason. Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches. Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass. Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play... This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be. No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so. Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley. I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him. Why wait? I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that? Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason. Now is the time to make the change. And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right. They are clueless. If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired. But they probably won't. Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward. Why he just does what McD tells him to as his yes man.
Rob's House Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, VADC Bills said: Zay was a Whaley pick based on Whaley scouting. I don't hold Beane accountable until after last years draft. Beane has showed that he can get rid of talent but he hasn't demonstrated that he can research and make good picks bring in quality FA's and build anything. Making the playoffs last year was based on talent acquired during Whaley's tenure. McD is a better coach than Rex and could utilize the talent better. Zay Jones has become the best receiver on the field. The Bills have become an offensive embarrassment. It was a joke. Beane wasn't even employed by the Bills when Zay Jones was picked.
Roundybout Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: Only bad GMs blame the cap. Good GMs will constantly restructure. There is no such thing as cap hell to creative GMs. Players have to agree to restructuring
iinii Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: That’s what everyone is saying but it doesn’t work that way in ANY business. You cannot completely ignore any part of your team or company. Think about it. The 2018 Bills don’t have a single rookie playing on offense right now! That’s hard to fathom. Not one? Agreed. If you are great at marketing but production and shipping are inept you usually don’t last long in business.
Jauronimo Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, CLTbills said: Yes. Exactly. The people they traded away are part of the process. What don't people get about that? That literally IS the process. Get rid of huge contracts to underperforming players, and start fresh instead of continuing to overpay for mediocre talent and just constantly staying in mediocrity 6-10 through 8-8. Blow it up, sacrifice a year to get rid of the contracts, and start fresh with 90 million dollars to spend next year, and some high draft picks. This is literally the definition of a rebuilding football team. This is literally the only part of every such process that has succeeded 100% of the time. It takes no particular skill or ability to dismantle a team. This is the easy part. I love hearing about shedding big underperforming contracts and our $90 million in cap space in the same sentence. 1
wppete Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 Just get some decent OL players via trade if possible. Trade Benjamin, McCoy, Clay and get some draft picks for the rebuild. That was embarrassing yesterday.
Lurker Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, jahnyc said: I don't see how you can have a cohesive team under these circumstances. That's the bottom line. The defensive players have to be questioning McBeane's ability to move the team forward. It's a testament to their professionalism that they continue to battle, although these next eight games will be interesting to watch as a sign of their continued buy in...
dubs Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished. Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball. Not one. The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it. The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured. There is no excuse for this - none. Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB. Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason. Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches. Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass. Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play... This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be. No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so. Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley. I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him. Why wait? I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that? Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason. Now is the time to make the change. And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right. They are clueless. If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired. But they probably won't. Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward. Purposely avoid TBD now because of stuff like this, but that first line is liquid gold. The Bills has a good running attack and an inept QB, lest we forget. Acting like the 2016 Bills offense was something to build upon is hilarious. The GM has made some mistakes and done some good things. The plan was to get a QB and build the defense with some young, elite talent. I’ve said it a thousand times on here, you may not like it, it might not work, and it’s certainly painful to watch, but it’s the plan. I’m willing to see if it works and hopeful it will.
Recommended Posts