HappyDays Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said: "The process" shouldn't have relied on two 30+ year old interior linemen, one of whom has well known "issues". I wonder what the grand plan is. Are all these moves going to lead to a consistent top 10 offense that can score 25+ a game? I just don't see it. To make that leap, we're going to be relying on several players that aren't even on the team or in the NFL. Think about that, it's scary! So you're saying the Bills should have had the foresight to predict their top 2 offensive linemen would retire in the same season? That's crazy talk. Honestly I think our line is good enough at pass blocking by modern NFL standards, but below average at rush blocking. We wanted a more run heavy offense this year because we have a rookie QB but it isn't working out. You could have said the same thing about our defense before last season. They made the defense respectable in one offseason, and now in two offseasons it has become a top 5 defense. I'm not expecting an elite offense next year. But I do believe with the amount of resources we have that we can build a respectable offense, and the defense COULD be elite next year. An elite defense with a respectable offense is a contender. Of course maybe they'll fail and they'll misuse all their resources and the offense will still be garbage. But I'm patient enough to see how it goes. A lot of it depends on Allen making a big jump in year 2.
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: "The process" shouldn't have relied on two 30+ year old interior linemen, one of whom has well known "issues". I wonder what the grand plan is. Are all these moves going to lead to a consistent top 10 offense that can score 25+ a game? I just don't see it. To make that leap, we're going to be relying on several players that aren't even on the team or in the NFL. Think about that, it's scary! Firing Beane isn't the solution, but I've never believed that you need to bottom out to improve. You are playing with fire when you shed lots of proven talent and are banking on some home run drafts to save your ass. The offense needs a complete makeover. Besides Dawkins, McCoy if he's not traded, Allen if he progress, and maybe Clay, which of the other 7 starters would you want back? Getting this done in one off season is going to be some heavy lifting..
Dr. K Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, Kevin1778 said: He did his job. He fixed the cap mess. His moves in next year will determine his success or failure. He CREATED the freakin' cap mess. And there's no way, no matter how much money he has next year, that he will be able to fix the gaping holes on this roster.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: So you're saying the Bills should have had the foresight to predict their top 2 offensive linemen would retire in the same season? That's crazy talk. A lot of it depends on Allen making a big jump in year 2. I'm saying that if "the process" relied on a 35 year old psychopath guard, and an oft injured 32 year old center, that's foolish. Yes, as goes Allen, so goes the offense. I've been pretty disappointed in his pure passing ability. Hope that changes. 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The offense needs a complete makeover. Besides Dawkins, McCoy if he's not traded, Allen if he progress, and maybe Clay, which of the other 7 starters would you want back? Getting this done in one off season is going to be some heavy lifting.. There will always be holes, that is unavoidable, but we should be strong in key positions. In 2018, that starts with a QB and top tier playmakers at RB, TE or WR. We're terrible in those areas. Edited October 30, 2018 by TheElectricCompany
Ittakestime Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said: ***** what?! When did they work together? Whaaa? 2017 Offseason Hyde, Poyer, White, Dawkins, Milano
Seasons1992 Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Ittakestime said: He will end up going down as the worst GM this team has ever seen, and that is saying a lot. Russ Brandon is here to see you, sir........
Roundybout Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Ittakestime said: 2017 Offseason Hyde, Poyer, White, Dawkins, Milano for 3 months dude, and Whales was a lame duck at that rate.
oldmanfan Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The offense needs a complete makeover. Besides Dawkins, McCoy if he's not traded, Allen if he progress, and maybe Clay, which of the other 7 starters would you want back? Getting this done in one off season is going to be some heavy lifting.. Give me Jones as a starter, he's getting better. I would let Clay go but I think his contract means he's here one more year.
Ittakestime Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, Seasons1992 said: Russ Brandon is here to see you, sir........ I would take Russ Brandon over Beane. At least Brandon relied on people in the organization (scouts) to do most of the work. Brandon actually brought in some nice players. 1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said: for 3 months dude, and Whales was a lame duck at that rate. Keep trying to bring fantasy, made up excuses in your mind. The facts and results are out there. Whaley was ten times the better talent evaluator than Beane. It's not even a debate.
Roundybout Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: I would take Russ Brandon over Beane. At least Brandon relied on people in the organization (scouts) to do most of the work. Brandon actually brought in some nice players. Keep trying to bring fantasy, made up excuses in your mind. The facts and results are out there. Whaley was ten times the better talent evaluator than Beane. It's not even a debate. Yeah he was so good he got us to 9-7 once and left us in cap hell
Dr. K Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnC said: The regime excruciatingly put themselves in a position that they wanted to be in. They wanted to rework the roster and the cap structure. The issue comes down to could they have accomplished what they set out to do with a more incremental and less dismantling approach? As demonstrated by their actions they clearly devised a full throttle strategy to take their hits up front in order to establish a more clean slate divorced from the past. As you noted what they do this offseason with the position they are in will determine whether that strategy will have worked. Now that they have the wherewithal will they use it wisely to address many of the holes that they themselves have created? There are many who are in a panic how this season has materialized. I'm not. It shouldn't have been a surprise. Because of the plain view of shedding of players and salaries every credible analyst predicted how this season would unfold for this rebuilding franchise. My question to the frantic fans who are in a state of frenzy is when an organization makes a decision to rebuild what did you expect? Smooth sailing and immediate results? Let's get serious and deal with the real world. Fantasy is not the harsh reality of this gruesome process. If you want to seriously judge then wait for the offseason and next draft and see how the roster is being bolstered or not. And wait at least until next year to make a decision as to whether Josh Allen is capable of being a franchise qb. Much as I question the McBeane regime and hate the words "The Process," this sounds rational to me. McBeane get another season. But I am not confident about their personnel decisions given some of the choices they have made so far.
CookieG Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Come on Scott. I'm talking about Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, and a stellar offensive line. I've said this before when this comes up...but how many of those would survive the McBeane purge if they were running KC? Watkins certainly wouldn't be there. Kelce is making $10 million a year, I could see him being traded. Hunt really isn't better than Shady. Different type of runner, but he's really not as good. And I like Hunt. HIll wouldn't have prospered under them. He was a day three pick with lots of speed but little else. He became a WR under Reid. The stellar Oline, it wouldn't be close. Fisher and his $13 million a year salary would be traded. I'm not sure Schwartz, at $6 or 7 million a year would still be there. Hell, Beane didn't want to pay Ritchie $5 million for a single year, and he just came off a Pro Bowl year. Tardif would never have gotten $8 million a year. More likely than not, the KC offense would have been gutted like the Bills' O was, if Beane was running that team.
billsfan_34 Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished. Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball. Not one. The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it. The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured. There is no excuse for this - none. Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB. Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason. Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches. Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass. Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play... This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be. No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so. Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley. I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him. Why wait? I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that? Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason. Now is the time to make the change. And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right. They are clueless. If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired. But they probably won't. Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward. Yo Coach- A GM/HC is doomed if they haven’t learned that todays NFL requires either (a) having a franchise QB in place or (b) address getting a QB thru FA or the draft. The utter kishandling of the QB position is mind boggling. People said in other posts I was nuts saying its insane to go into the season with 2 unproven QB’s. Look where we are at now! To think, Mahomes was there for us last year. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but another miscalculation! Edited October 30, 2018 by billsfan_34
Nihilarian Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 I don't agree with firing the HC and GM. However someone does need to be held accountable for this craptastic offense that can't score in a season in which scoring record are being broken. Plus that #1 in the league rush offense the Bills had just 2 short years ago went down the proverbial toilet. Even last year they could at least run the ball. The Bills OC and line coach should be the ones to go.
34-78-83 Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 Not gonna happen, nor should it. Not gonna happen next year either. The O was doomed from the offseason. It was pretty obvious. Decisions were made to do away with high priced talent they didn't want on the team long term, affecting cap room and immediate state of replacement. This was going to be a losing season where the Bills focused on solidifying the defense and drafting a QB of the future Whether 7-9 or 4-12, it was going to be a losing season and a lost cause for the offense. Would not trading AJ away (or a vet placeholder) have made us closer to 7-9 and not 4-12? Probably yes. Does it matter? nope. Whether anyone agrees with this approach or not, this IS what is happening. I really don't care one way or the other as long as they have a plan and are proceeding through it (which is obvious) ... 1
Roundybout Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, CookieG said: I've said this before when this comes up...but how many of those would survive the McBeane purge if they were running KC? Watkins certainly wouldn't be there. Kelce is making $10 million a year, I could see him being traded. Hunt really isn't better than Shady. Different type of runner, but he's really not as good. And I like Hunt. HIll wouldn't have prospered under them. He was a day three pick with lots of speed but little else. He became a WR under Reid. The stellar Oline, it wouldn't be close. Fisher and his $13 million a year salary would be traded. I'm not sure Schwartz, at $6 or 7 million a year would still be there. Hell, Beane didn't want to pay Ritchie $5 million for a single year, and he just came off a Pro Bowl year. Tardif would never have gotten $8 million a year. More likely than not, the KC offense would have been gutted like the Bills' O was, if Beane was running that team. I highly, HIGHLY doubt it
mbossman2 Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 So Beane and/or McDermmot should be fired. If you advocate for that, tell us all: who are you going to get to replace them? Anybody you put forth has be to willing to come here after you have just canned the HC and/or GM after a year and a half.
Big Gun Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, Billznut said: Exactly. Pegula signed off on this with the Sabres years ago to do the “competitive good tank” but yet people are shocked and can’t comprehend he could possibly do the SAME thing with his hockey team?? Wake up. It was agreed upon and it’s happening. I think you meant football team but the average NFL career is 3.3 years and there isn't a minor league development system in place like the NHL. That's probably the biggest reason you don't do a complete tear down in the NFL. Not to mention GMTM failed miserably and went off the rails with the Sabres. It was only until JBots took over has the hockey part looked competent. I think I have lost faith in McBeans ability to not get back on the rails as they have gone way way off the rails in a very short amount of time.
CuddyDark Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, HappyDays said: So you're saying the Bills should have had the foresight to predict their top 2 offensive linemen would retire in the same season? That's crazy talk. Honestly I think our line is good enough at pass blocking by modern NFL standards, but below average at rush blocking. We wanted a more run heavy offense this year because we have a rookie QB but it isn't working out. You could have said the same thing about our defense before last season. They made the defense respectable in one offseason, and now in two offseasons it has become a top 5 defense. I'm not expecting an elite offense next year. But I do believe with the amount of resources we have that we can build a respectable offense, and the defense COULD be elite next year. An elite defense with a respectable offense is a contender. Of course maybe they'll fail and they'll misuse all their resources and the offense will still be garbage. But I'm patient enough to see how it goes. A lot of it depends on Allen making a big jump in year 2. Teams are playing 8 and even 9 against the run. They run blitz almost every first down. The line is as good as last year. The missing piece is a running QB. When Allen is a runner the offense looks better. Problem is Allen is not a Cam/Tyrod type runner.
DisplacedBillsFan Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine. This will put him on notice. Totally. I'm sure he saw this and try his very hardest moving forward now that he's "on notice". As a second year coach, he didn't know this was serious and that he had to win games. Now that he knows, I'm sure he'll promise to do better.
Recommended Posts