ctk232 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said: Well we’ll see. I’ve seen enough of KB around these parts, but I was never a huge fan of him in the first place. All aboard with drafting Harry. As far as “overpaying,” that’s simply based on perpective and I could care less if Beane subjectively overpays for a free agent WR if it turns into production. Ain’t my money, and they’ve enough of Terry’s to go out and do something. It's probably best to rephrase my concern by saying it's not so much losing KB as it is what else do we have to work with and in a year where we need to continue to build out the OL and have much more than one hole in the WR corps? But who's there to even overpay for in the first place? Beyond Funchess I can't agree with bringing in anyone and saying they'll be a positive contribution for the contract - which will matter when it comes time to pay our young talent.
ctk232 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, KW95 said: KB ball in hands, KB drop ball...KB is being misused! Cheers Not arguing he's actually a WR1 and being misused. Far from it and I'd even argue he's being overpaid. But he would be useful in a role scenario where he can contest jump balls in favorable matchups - hence being misused. He can still be misused in either argument of whether he should be kept or dropped.
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: He's definitely a complementary player who has shown more of late. He has caught 18 of his last 25 targets (72 percent).
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 I don't even think he is as good as Sterling Shepherd right now. Jones still has a lot of work to do. I think Shepherd is your average solid #2 WR.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: He has caught 18 of his last 25 targets (72 percent). Much improved and getting help by being schemed open. You can tell he's smart and works hard to understand the offense. 1
ctk232 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: How can you possibly be back and forth on KB This has nothing to do with him being slated as a number 1 (Barkely actually stopped throwing to him) this is about a player that literally cannot use the few traits he has to make plays to EVEN BE ON THE FIELD KB is a big large bodied high catch radius body who cannot make a contested catch.....like ever....forget the fact that he does not have the speed to get open and is a injury risk because of his knees The bills should say thank you and have a nice rest of your career after the season.....draft receiver early and often guys who CAN get separation on the field and will make contested grabs I get you posted before I responded elsewhere in the thread, but without repeating too much - it's not that I want him to stay over anything else, and I don't think he's earned the right to stay either. All I'm saying is that I'm curious if he'd produce in a more role-specific spot on the roster given that the only WR worth paying for in FA is Funchess, and we can realistically add only one WR talent in the upcoming draft that could actually demand coverage in their rookie year. Objectively speaking it's hard to argue as you would have to resign him after this year and he's already making 9mil/year. He wouldn't be worth resigning at that price, but if no other team wants him for that price either, could his use in a specific role outweigh the amount we'd overpay for another FA WR? Especially in this year's group.
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ctk232 said: I get you posted before I responded elsewhere in the thread, but without repeating too much - it's not that I want him to stay over anything else, and I don't think he's earned the right to stay either. All I'm saying is that I'm curious if he'd produce in a more role-specific spot on the roster given that the only WR worth paying for in FA is Funchess, and we can realistically add only one WR talent in the upcoming draft that could actually demand coverage in their rookie year. Objectively speaking it's hard to argue as you would have to resign him after this year and he's already making 9mil/year. He wouldn't be worth resigning at that price, but if no other team wants him for that price either, could his use in a specific role outweigh the amount we'd overpay for another FA WR? Especially in this year's group. Im just really down on him I guess.....if he acts this disinterested in a contract year how is he going to act when he gets paid? I think (if I understand it correctly) that your worried about not having a number 1 because Zay Jones is not a number 1......my feeling on this is a high rookie WR pick would not do worse then KB and would probably do better. To me a posession receiver that cannot catch contested balls is completely worthless......
Ittakestime Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 People need to stop with this complementary nonsense. I thought people would stop using that word once Woods left and has been a big piece on Rams, but I guess it hasn't. All the top offensive teams have multiple threats with different skill sets. Jones will be a good WR with his skill set. He will not be a complementary piece, he will be a part of the weapons group. This 1,2,3, outside, slot naming crap is out of date. 2
ctk232 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Im just really down on him I guess.....if he acts this disinterested in a contract year how is he going to act when he gets paid? I think (if I understand it correctly) that your worried about not having a number 1 because Zay Jones is not a number 1......my feeling on this is a high rookie WR pick would not do worse then KB and would probably do better. To me a posession receiver that cannot catch contested balls is completely worthless...... I don't disagree, I see the lack of effort and performance and I too don't think he's worth 9mil or a roster spot on any team. But given the current state of our offense I'm wondering if there's an effective way to use him at all that would be worth resigning over other options out there. This is just one scenario where he could be utilized, but is entirely dependent on that roster having a set WR1 to demand coverage (something we desperately need and don't have), as well as other talent filling out the roster (like Zay, and Foster from yesterday - Pryor I think we were just too desperate but hope he gets his game back). Beyond other measures, we are severely hurt by not having that WR1 and I would like to see this filled by N'Keal Harry in my ideal world. But given our OL demands as well, not sure the likelihood this happens. KB's issue isn't so much the catching as it is completing the catch - I know semantics. But should he have those more favorable matchups, maybe he comes down with those contested jump balls on key third downs and in the red zone. That only gives a raw, underdeveloped Allen all the more options to use without too much added risk. One could argue that especially with Allen, the only receivers you should be drafting are those with catch radii of over 5 feet until his accuracy improves... It's all just curiosity but the most likely scenario is we don't resign him at the end of the year.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: People need to stop with this complementary nonsense. I thought people would stop using that word once Woods left and has been a big piece on Rams, but I guess it hasn't. All the top offensive teams have multiple threats with different skill sets. Jones will be a good WR with his skill set. He will not be a complementary piece, he will be a part of the weapons group. This 1,2,3, outside, slot naming crap is out of date. It's only nonsense to those who don't understand what it means. 1
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, ctk232 said: I don't disagree, I see the lack of effort and performance and I too don't think he's worth 9mil or a roster spot on any team. But given the current state of our offense I'm wondering if there's an effective way to use him at all that would be worth resigning over other options out there. This is just one scenario where he could be utilized, but is entirely dependent on that roster having a set WR1 to demand coverage (something we desperately need and don't have), as well as other talent filling out the roster (like Zay, and Foster from yesterday - Pryor I think we were just too desperate but hope he gets his game back). Beyond other measures, we are severely hurt by not having that WR1 and I would like to see this filled by N'Keal Harry in my ideal world. But given our OL demands as well, not sure the likelihood this happens. KB's issue isn't so much the catching as it is completing the catch - I know semantics. But should he have those more favorable matchups, maybe he comes down with those contested jump balls on key third downs and in the red zone. That only gives a raw, underdeveloped Allen all the more options to use without too much added risk. One could argue that especially with Allen, the only receivers you should be drafting are those with catch radii of over 5 feet until his accuracy improves... It's all just curiosity but the most likely scenario is we don't resign him at the end of the year. We are going to have to see how our draft position plays out.......I am also interested to see how the Dawkins/Teller side looks going forward I initially thought (before yesterday) that the bills might not give Teller a chance and maybe Dawkins had to be moved to LG.....if Teller works out at LG and you keep Dawkins at LG.....now the problem areas are C and RG......we can get both of those in free agency If we are still in the top 5 pick range......we can trade down in the first.....still take one of the better WR's......and address RG and C in the draft in later rounds....
Ittakestime Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 52 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: It's only nonsense to those who don't understand what it means. Sure thing buddy.
ctk232 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: We are going to have to see how our draft position plays out.......I am also interested to see how the Dawkins/Teller side looks going forward I initially thought (before yesterday) that the bills might not give Teller a chance and maybe Dawkins had to be moved to LG.....if Teller works out at LG and you keep Dawkins at LG.....now the problem areas are C and RG......we can get both of those in free agency If we are still in the top 5 pick range......we can trade down in the first.....still take one of the better WR's......and address RG and C in the draft in later rounds.... Funny you say that as that's how my ideal draft would go as well - however, I don't know if N'Keal will creep up draft boards in round 1 which would take him out of consideration of the trade back option. The other piece also being with a top 5 pick, and if they are there, can you for sure pass up on Oliver or Bosa? Even the hypothetical where they are off the board before we pick, do you still trade down if Little is there? Imagine drafting Little to be the franchise LT - swing Dawkins to guard with Teller, address C in FA, and RT in FA. Plan B is get a LG/RG in FA and swing Dawkins to RT but feel like he may be more wasted there. Lot of ways this gets patched up in an ideal world - just wonder where this goes in actuality.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 FLEX OFFENSE Zay Jones, Buffalo Bills – 90.9 overall grade Can you say Zay Jones breakout game? Jones caught eight passes for 93 yards and two scores in the win over the Jets, and the crazy thing is his performance would have been even better if not for a fumble on the edge of the end zone, which the Bills eventually recovered for a touchdown. Jones struggled with drops as a rookie, dropping five of 34 catchable passes, but so far in 2018, he has yet to drop any of the 37 catchable targets thrown his way.
Mikey152 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Somebody earlier said Zay isn't fast/explosive/etc... At the combine (which was just last year for him) he measured 6'2" and 201 pounds with a 4.45 40, 36.5 inch vertical, 133 inch broad jump and 4.01/11.17 shuttles. Those were all top 12 times in his class, and some of them were top 3-5 For comparison, Sammy Watkins was 6'1" 211. 4.43, 34, 126, 4.34 and Julio Jones was 6'3" 220, 4.38, 38.5. 135. 4.23/11.07
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, Mikey152 said: Somebody earlier said Zay isn't fast/explosive/etc... At the combine (which was just last year for him) he measured 6'2" and 201 pounds with a 4.45 40, 36.5 inch vertical, 133 inch broad jump and 4.01/11.17 shuttles. Those were all top 12 times in his class, and some of them were top 3-5 For comparison, Sammy Watkins was 6'1" 211. 4.43, 34, 126, 4.34 and Julio Jones was 6'3" 220, 4.38, 38.5. 135. 4.23/11.07 Does he look explosive in actual game play? I could not care any less about combine skills in shorts. What happens when the pads are on against the opposition in games that count?
Mikey152 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Does he look explosive in actual game play? I could not care any less about combine skills in shorts. What happens when the pads are on against the opposition in games that count? Ah, so you prefer anecdotal to analytical...gotcha The point is he is a good athlete, so if he is "playing slow" it's not because of his physical ability. Personally, I think it's bs until somebody shows me the contrary. He;s been able to get separation, even last year...he just has had problems dropping it or being targeted so far in his young career. Jerry Rice had similar problems. It happens to the best of them. Edited November 12, 2018 by Mikey152
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Mikey152 said: Ah, so you prefer anecdotal to analytical...gotcha The point is he is a good athlete, so if he is "playing slow" it's not because of his physical ability. Personally, I think it's bs until somebody shows me the contrary. He;s been able to get separation, even last year...he just has had problems dropping it or being targeted so far in his young career. Jerry Rice had similar problems. It happens to the best of them. Plenty of players test fast, but don't play fast and sometimes it's just the opposite. What happens on the field in actual competition is all that matters.
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