Mickey Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t expect them to use all 10 picks. I expect them to use those picks to move up for specific guys that they have been trying to get. As an example, the Bills trade their 4th and a 5th to move back up to the end of day 2 if there is a player that they love. I expect them to pull 4 to 5 starters from the draft and hopefully some improved depth. Who on earth would be so stupid as to trade a 2nd round pick for a 4th and 5th? On the trade value chart that is about 300 points for 110 points +/- Wouldn't we be calling for Beane's head if he did something that stupid?
Jauronimo Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I never have agreed with this. Fill the holes on your team. The Bills are not good enough to grab another MLB in the 1st Round just because they rate him a 92 and the best WR available a 90. This team is depleted at almost every position. Teams that draft for need will continue to have many much need to replace mediocre starters. Need is a tie breaker when deciding between two equally rated players in the draft.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You kind of contradict yourself here. You say that “they basically need everyone but draft for need.” Good teams never draft for need. That’s what FA is for. The draft is for enhancing your talent level. I never have believed that the "good teams" aka the teams with a real QB just take the best available player. No they don't. The Steelers select players that fit their style of defense, as do the Ravens. I think what really happens is teams rank talent in Tiers, and then select based on need from the players left in a Tier. They know guys they ultimately want to move away from, contracts that are about to expire, players who are declining and they plan for it.
blacklabel Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Elite Poster said: I love how people bring up the "we have 10 picks" BS, and they are all late round picks. This regime just drafted and cut a guy drafted in the 6th this year. Lol. If you're referring to Proehl, he was a 7th round pick, and one pick away from being Mr. Irrelevant. 7th round picks get cut all the time.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: That's exactly what teams that draft well do. The only exception is QB, because if you don't have one, you should be drafting any QB that could potentially become a franchise guy. Exactly. The Bills aren't going to do that. One year after drafting Allen, drafting Hebert. Its nice to say, but nobody does that. 6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Teams that draft for need will continue to have many much need to replace mediocre starters. Need is a tie breaker when deciding between two equally rated players in the draft. So if the Bills went CB, LB, NT in Rounds 1, 2, 3 you wouldn't object?
blacklabel Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, PIZ said: WR – Benjamin. Terrible. LG – Ducasse? Seems more like a backup G to me. C – Bodine? Seems more like a backup center to me. RB – McCoy. I don’t expect him to be on the team in 2019. RG – John Miller. Need to get better here. RT – Mills. Need to get better here. WR – Holmes. Only OK at special teams. Not a starter at WR. (edit) QB - Peterman. Anderson. Not sure how I forgot this, but yes, probably both will not be on the roster next season. We need a quality vet backup for Allen, and I would like to see another young guy that has some talent, to replace Peterman. LB – Alexander. Still a good player, but he is getting long in the tooth. DT – Kyle Williams. Retirement. DE – Murphy. Guy can’t stay healthy. DE – Hughes. Still a top player, but will he be traded? CB – Gaines. Need to get better here. That is a ton of players. Can the Bills fill these spots via FA and the draft? Is it realistic to think the Bills can fill these spots with starters that will improve the team? I think it is possible with the cap money ($91m) and draft picks (10 – below). Benjamin, not great. Ducasse, playing better than most think. Bodine, serviceable, they could upgrade but maybe a full season in this offense will help him progress some. Miller, not great. Mills, again, playing better than most think. Alexander, playing well for the role they have him in, providing valuable leadership/teaching to young guys like Edmunds & Milano. Williams, playing well this season, likely helping Harrison Phillips come along, and maybe now Jordan Phillips as well. Depending on how he finishes the season, the Bills will have a decision to make on re-signing him or not (Jordan Phillips, that is, I feel like Kyle retires after this season but if they finish the season on an uptick and they're able to make some decent upgrades in the off-season and if Kyle thinks they might be able to go for a playoff run, maybe he comes back, especially if the Brothers Phillips get more time in the rotation). Murphy, does get hurt a lot, missed most of camp and pre-season and just went down with an injury Sunday but he's not bad when he can go. Hughes, they've said it numerous times that they have him firmly in their future plans. They love the intensity he brings, he practices hard everyday, works his tail off, he's a good example of what the coaching staff wants to see from their players. Gaines, not great, but they can't all be zingers. Maybe Dontae Johnson or Ryan Lewis come along and get better. It's not as grim as you might think. And if they wanna keep adding to the DL and make it the strongest unit on the team, this next draft coming up is absolutely loaded with solid DL players. On the flipside, it's not a great year for receivers or offensive playmakers, which they really need. Oh, and backup QB, yes, I'd like to see them move on from Peterman, kid just implodes whenever the real games start. Anderson, I wanted him signed earlier this season to fill that mentor role, it's a bummer he has to start right now. Edited October 25, 2018 by blacklabel
thebandit27 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The Bills aren't going to do that. One year after drafting Allen, drafting Hebert. Its nice to say, but nobody does that. I didn't say that they would (or should). Now, I wouldn't fault them if they did, but the point is this: if you don't have a franchise QB, and you don't have someone in the fold that you believe can become that guy, then that's what you draft first. After that, you should be taking the best player that you can get your hands on. Drafting for need causes teams to pass on better players, and almost always leads to a dearth of talent.
McBean Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, PIZ said: WR – Benjamin. Terrible. LG – Ducasse? Seems more like a backup G to me. C – Bodine? Seems more like a backup center to me. RB – McCoy. I don’t expect him to be on the team in 2019. RG – John Miller. Need to get better here. RT – Mills. Need to get better here. WR – Holmes. Only OK at special teams. Not a starter at WR. (edit) QB - Peterman. Anderson. Not sure how I forgot this, but yes, probably both will not be on the roster next season. We need a quality vet backup for Allen, and I would like to see another young guy that has some talent, to replace Peterman. LB – Alexander. Still a good player, but he is getting long in the tooth. DT – Kyle Williams. Retirement. DE – Murphy. Guy can’t stay healthy. DE – Hughes. Still a top player, but will he be traded? CB – Gaines. Need to get better here. That is a ton of players. Can the Bills fill these spots via FA and the draft? Is it realistic to think the Bills can fill these spots with starters that will improve the team? I think it is possible with the cap money ($91m) and draft picks (10 – below). 2019 draft picks: Round 1: original pick. Round 2: original pick. Round 3: original pick. Round 4: original pick. Round 4: additional selection acquired from the Kansas City Chiefs as part of Reggie Ragland trade. Round 5: original pick. Round 5: additional selection acquired from the Oakland Raiders as part of AJ McCarron trade. Round 6: original pick. Round 7: original pick. Round 7: additional selection acquired from the Carolina Panthers as part of Kevon Seymour trade. Allen, Dawkins, T White, T Johnson, Edmunds, Milano, H Phillips, Hyde, Poyer, J Phillips. eveybody else can kick rocks Edited October 25, 2018 by McBean
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mickey said: Who on earth would be so stupid as to trade a 2nd round pick for a 4th and 5th? On the trade value chart that is about 300 points for 110 points +/- Wouldn't we be calling for Beane's head if he did something that stupid? I don't think that's how anyone sees it playing out. Kirby specifically mentioned sneaking back into the end of day 2, as in late round 3. FWIW, based on last year's trade value chart picks 112 (16th in rd4) and 144 (16th in rd5) were worth pick 94 (30th pick in rd3). I suspect our pick will be better than pick 16, so value only goes up. The other thing the Bills can do is use their later picks to improve their day 2 picks. Let's say we do end up with pick 94 from the above trade. We could then package that with pick 176 (16th in rd6) to get up to pick 86 or so.
Jauronimo Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The Bills aren't going to do that. One year after drafting Allen, drafting Hebert. Its nice to say, but nobody does that. So if the Bills went CB, LB, NT in Rounds 1, 2, 3 you wouldn't object? If those are the clear cut best players on the board, so be it. Actual difference makers on the field is way better than getting the WR equivalent of Donte Whitner just because we have a need at that position.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, blacklabel said: Oh, and backup QB, yes, I'd like to see them move on from Peterman, kid just implodes whenever the real games start. Anderson, I wanted him signed earlier this season to fill that mentor role, it's a bummer he has to start right now. This is something that WGR 550 has talked about all week. That Anderson should have been signed earlier, that you left yourself exposed by not having a veteran QB on the roster. And I got to tell you, I think this is something that just get repeated, but if you're trying to win games, it doesn't matter at all. The Bills tried to give a back up QB who "never got his chance to start" an opportunity in AJ McCarron. Two days into TC it was apparent that he was a checkdown artist. The Browns signed veteran journeyman Tyrod Taylor, he stunk and lasted two games. The Cardinals signed veteran Sam Bradford and he lasted two games before being yanked. The Bills signed veteran backup Derek Anderson. He threw 0 TDs and 3 Ints, and fumbled. 4 turnovers for a veteran that Josh Allen is "supposed to learn from". So what good does signing Anderson "earlier" do? The fans say this year is all about sitting Allen and helping him "learn". But what really happens is a garbage washed up veteran is 0-2 and the screams get louder for the 1st Round Rookie. The same thing would have happened here in Buffalo.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, Mickey said: Who on earth would be so stupid as to trade a 2nd round pick for a 4th and 5th? On the trade value chart that is about 300 points for 110 points +/- Wouldn't we be calling for Beane's head if he did something that stupid? 3rd round is day 2. We are talking about using something like 106 and 143 to get into the 90’s. There are roughly 100 picks in the first 2 days.
sleeby Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 As for the offense it would be easier to look at who is sure to stay on in 2019. Josh A Zay Jones Dawkins Ivory Are there any other starters on that team who should be considered safe?
yungmack Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 Number one priority is an NFL level QB. Not that Beane et al have shown any sign they know what one is.
Mark Vader Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: You forgot McDermott. Conor McDermott is just a back-up tackle, no reason to cut him.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: If those are the clear cut best players on the board, so be it. Actual difference makers on the field is way better than getting the WR equivalent of Donte Whitner just because we have a need at that position. I just don’t think you have any real evidence to support this, that “good” teams don’t draft for needs but the teams that are bad draft for need and it leaves them without talent. Edited October 25, 2018 by Straight Hucklebuck
White Linen Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 If we have a top 10 pick and there's not a WR worthy of the pick - I'm trying to trade down into the teens and identify a WR. If I can't get adequate compensation then I'm looking for a pass rusher with the pick. I'm then looking to trade back into the first round to get a WR or I'm identifying a TE in the second. IMO, pass rusher and WR are the hardest positions to fill in free agency in terms of top tier #1 guys. We need 4 WR's and it's going to be a daunting task - some Antonio Brown type of luck would be so helpful. A guy to come from no where and be a real player. I spend my free agency money on a the offensive line, Golden Tate or John Brown (i'll over pay for either) and a corner. Then fill in as many holes as possible with the remainder. 2
billsfan_34 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Mark92 said: Tom Brady was a 6th. A pick is a pick. Yes 1-4 round picks tend to be better but you never know. #83 ring a bell?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, billsherd said: By the time offense gets fixed, watch for defense to suck. Well then everyone should be thrilled around here, since all i hear is that's how it's done. 1
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