BillsFan130 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: I think you cannot evaluate him when this offense is almost completely devoid of talent....... I know its hard....but fans should look a little deeper at what is actually happening here. The talent on the offence blows. No disagreement there. He is definitely not the whole problem, but I do believe he is a part of the problem. I was literally guessing what plays he was going to run last week before the snap and I got them right at about a 75/80 percent clip. That’s how predictable he is. If I can figure it out, defensive coordinators and players can surely figure it out.
ColoradoBills Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: I agree. Yes, the talent is somewhat lacking with the offense as the only real elite player is RB LeSean McCoy. Now, stating that, why hasn't he been used more effectively this season? The team got behind in points the first few games and the rushing attack went right out the window. Still, this doesn't explain why McCoy wasn't used in the passing scheme more often as he is probably the best receiver on the team too. Daboll has been mostly attempting to run a pass first offense with a rookie QB who has great difficulty reading defenses. Simply moronic! Sorry, but Brian Daboll stinks! Great coaches get the best out of their players...you know, kinda like McD has done with the defense. He should have simplified the offense to mostly run plays and screens, short outs, misdirection plays. For most of the season Daboll has been calling plays like he has an experienced veteran QB behind center. The offense is out of control with penalties and stupid drive killing penalties at that. How is it that a pro player doesn't know where to line up? I can see an incidental penalty like an occasional hold or false start. But some of these are ridiculous and make it impossible for any QB to do his job much less a rookie QB. 54 penalties for 428 is downright ludicrous. The Buffalo Bills are ranked 27th in Pass play %. They rank 29th in the last 3 games. Compared to the league Bills don't look like a pass first offense to me. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct 2018 Last 3 Last 2 Home Away 2017 1 NY Giants 68.46% 70.56% 67.74% 70.27% 67.08% 61.97% 2 Green Bay 68.19% 66.82% 70.00% 65.20% 73.94% 61.36% 3 Minnesota 67.73% 59.69% 63.08% 66.02% 69.06% 54.07% 4 Pittsburgh 67.33% 66.85% 68.66% 72.25% 62.86% 59.70% 5 Indianapolis 66.67% 60.87% 38.33% 65.45% 67.68% 54.63% 6 Cincinnati 66.03% 65.88% 64.81% 63.98% 67.67% 59.33% 7 Atlanta 64.88% 68.88% 67.74% 61.54% 72.59% 56.14% 8 Jacksonville 64.71% 71.21% 67.65% 62.92% 67.19% 50.51% 9 Tampa Bay 64.25% 66.82% 63.64% 66.98% 61.08% 62.32% 10 Oakland 63.61% 68.72% 66.07% 66.23% 61.92% 61.13% 11 Philadelphia 62.50% 61.70% 63.08% 60.54% 64.84% 55.78% 12 Baltimore 62.04% 62.27% 64.06% 59.13% 63.99% 56.36% 13 Arizona 61.96% 62.35% 68.18% 62.90% 60.54% 61.32% 14 Denver 61.40% 65.24% 43.64% 61.18% 61.70% 57.49% 15 Detroit 60.58% 50.60% 39.66% 60.82% 60.33% 62.96% 16 Cleveland 60.04% 65.71% 62.90% 60.91% 58.67% 61.90% 17 Kansas City 58.73% 60.42% 58.57% 57.97% 59.40% 59.44% 18 Carolina 58.24% 64.13% 70.69% 46.39% 70.88% 52.96% 19 New Orleans 58.19% 48.50% 44.29% 62.84% 54.21% 56.37% 20 Miami 57.84% 61.90% 64.81% 58.85% 56.44% 63.82% 21 San Francisco 57.37% 57.07% 58.62% 59.05% 55.88% 61.44% 22 Chicago 56.68% 56.28% 67.53% 58.08% 55.28% 54.82% 23 Houston 56.54% 52.82% 40.32% 62.05% 52.69% 56.38% 24 LA Chargers 56.48% 48.45% 63.64% 60.00% 53.11% 58.92% 25 New England 56.18% 57.28% 57.81% 54.33% 59.30% 59.78% 26 NY Jets 54.61% 50.51% 65.22% 55.17% 53.76% 56.61% 27 Buffalo 54.44% 48.02% 60.00% 47.58% 57.34% 52.12% 28 Washington 54.15% 57.84% 44.83% 53.39% 55.56% 59.16% 29 Dallas 54.14% 51.81% 63.93% 45.45% 61.02% 52.24% 30 Tennessee 53.28% 55.00% 50.75% 57.58% 50.41% 55.41% 31 LA Rams 51.56% 46.94% 42.62% 54.64% 49.22% 55.83% 32 Seattle 50.55% 42.13% 39.34% 41.80% 54.96% 59.38%
John from Riverside Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: The talent on the offnce blowes. No disagreement there. He is definitely not the whole problem, but I do believe he is a part of the problem. I was literally guessing what plays he was going to run last week before the snap and I got them right at about a 75/80 percent clip. That’s how predictable he is. If I can figure it out, defensive coordinators and players can surely figure it out. What is there to figure out.....THEY CANNOT EVEN EXECUTE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD FOR SCREENS This is what I dont understand about fans like you.....you recognize that we dont have the horses....you want to win the race anyway
BillsFan130 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: What is there to figure out.....THEY CANNOT EVEN EXECUTE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD FOR SCREENS This is what I dont understand about fans like you.....you recognize that we dont have the horses....you want to win the race anyway Ok, John. Have a good day
John from Riverside Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, billsfan11 said: Ok, John. Have a good day You as well Look.....just wait until we see what they are gonna do on offense before passing a determination.....being in a losing season sucks I dont like it either 1
BmarvB Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 I would think he would be able to get the most out of what little talent he has to work wit. Granted that's asking a lot with this group, but still...... Let's hope Beane does all the right things in the off season to upgrade the offense
Rebel101 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 11 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: The man is atleast attempting to run a real NFL offense. Very rarely do you see the run, run, pass combo we have come so accustom to over the last few years. Gone are the days of draw up the middle out of the shotgun for 1 yard over and over. The only issue is he is trying to run a modern day NFL offense with Junior College talent. I think his stubbornness will pay off in the long run by helping to weed out the players who can’t hack it in a real offense. Much like we saw a defensive overhaul this year I would expect the same on offense next year. I have confidence that McBeane have the ability to figure it out, as they did on defense. As far as McDermott, let’s not forget he got us to the playoffs with a joke of a roster last year. This year any educated fan could see we were not built to win although there was always the outside chance much like last year. Do you actually watch the games? Because run run pass is all we do. I stopped reading once you said those days are gone
MikeSpeed Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 The nice thing about Daboll right now, we do not have to worry about another team poaching him to be their head coach.
TheBrownBear Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 I don't know how anyone could draw much of a conclusion on Daboll, good or bad, based on the talent level on the offensive side of the ball. We have like one good playmaker (who happens to be a 30yr old RB) and one serviceable offensive lineman and that's it. We have the worst group of quarterbacks in the league. Our best receiver would be a #3 on most teams and after him I'm not sure if we have another receiver who would be active on Sundays for 75% of the teams in the league. If there ever was someone set up to fail, it's Daboll.
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 We are not trying to install an offense that is best for RIGHT now.... We want to teach Allen the offense for who we plan on becoming next year and the year after. You don't spend a year teaching your rookie QB a scheme that you will toss out next year when you get talent on the offensive side of the ball. As painful as it is now, everything needs to be done to help Allen learn.
Nihilarian Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The Buffalo Bills are ranked 27th in Pass play %. They rank 29th in the last 3 games. Compared to the league Bills don't look like a pass first offense to me. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct 2018 Last 3 Last 2 Home Away 2017 1 NY Giants 68.46% 70.56% 67.74% 70.27% 67.08% 61.97% 2 Green Bay 68.19% 66.82% 70.00% 65.20% 73.94% 61.36% 3 Minnesota 67.73% 59.69% 63.08% 66.02% 69.06% 54.07% 4 Pittsburgh 67.33% 66.85% 68.66% 72.25% 62.86% 59.70% 5 Indianapolis 66.67% 60.87% 38.33% 65.45% 67.68% 54.63% 6 Cincinnati 66.03% 65.88% 64.81% 63.98% 67.67% 59.33% 7 Atlanta 64.88% 68.88% 67.74% 61.54% 72.59% 56.14% 8 Jacksonville 64.71% 71.21% 67.65% 62.92% 67.19% 50.51% 9 Tampa Bay 64.25% 66.82% 63.64% 66.98% 61.08% 62.32% 10 Oakland 63.61% 68.72% 66.07% 66.23% 61.92% 61.13% 11 Philadelphia 62.50% 61.70% 63.08% 60.54% 64.84% 55.78% 12 Baltimore 62.04% 62.27% 64.06% 59.13% 63.99% 56.36% 13 Arizona 61.96% 62.35% 68.18% 62.90% 60.54% 61.32% 14 Denver 61.40% 65.24% 43.64% 61.18% 61.70% 57.49% 15 Detroit 60.58% 50.60% 39.66% 60.82% 60.33% 62.96% 16 Cleveland 60.04% 65.71% 62.90% 60.91% 58.67% 61.90% 17 Kansas City 58.73% 60.42% 58.57% 57.97% 59.40% 59.44% 18 Carolina 58.24% 64.13% 70.69% 46.39% 70.88% 52.96% 19 New Orleans 58.19% 48.50% 44.29% 62.84% 54.21% 56.37% 20 Miami 57.84% 61.90% 64.81% 58.85% 56.44% 63.82% 21 San Francisco 57.37% 57.07% 58.62% 59.05% 55.88% 61.44% 22 Chicago 56.68% 56.28% 67.53% 58.08% 55.28% 54.82% 23 Houston 56.54% 52.82% 40.32% 62.05% 52.69% 56.38% 24 LA Chargers 56.48% 48.45% 63.64% 60.00% 53.11% 58.92% 25 New England 56.18% 57.28% 57.81% 54.33% 59.30% 59.78% 26 NY Jets 54.61% 50.51% 65.22% 55.17% 53.76% 56.61% 27 Buffalo 54.44% 48.02% 60.00% 47.58% 57.34% 52.12% 28 Washington 54.15% 57.84% 44.83% 53.39% 55.56% 59.16% 29 Dallas 54.14% 51.81% 63.93% 45.45% 61.02% 52.24% 30 Tennessee 53.28% 55.00% 50.75% 57.58% 50.41% 55.41% 31 LA Rams 51.56% 46.94% 42.62% 54.64% 49.22% 55.83% 32 Seattle 50.55% 42.13% 39.34% 41.80% 54.96% 59.38% Lies, damned lies and statistics. Look at the pass vs the run 201 pass attempts vs 190 rush attempts. Go back and re-watch the games. (1) Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. (2) Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes.(4) Packers 16 rushes vs 33 passes.(5) Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes. (6) Indy 22 rushes vs 31 passes. Now, the only game in which the OC called for more run plays was against (3) Minnesota which was 38 rushes vs 22 passes. This is what Daboll should have been doing each and every week and not just when the team got the lead. Pounding the ball will not only help that rookie QB do his job it also helps the defense. Look at what happened against Indy when they ran the ball on Buffalo. It basically negated that Buffalo Bills 3rd best sacking team in the League. Another thing is McCoy only has 13 receptions so far and he was the Bills leading receiver last year with 59 receptions. Daboll has been calling for more downfield passes.
Scott7975 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense.
LSHMEAB Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 I didn't like Daboll coming in and I didn't like drafting Allen and now because the talent is so decimated offensively, neither can be judged properly. So not only do we get to suck for the immediate future, they'll be around until they can properly be assessed. As someone who doesn't like either's track record, it's the worst possible scenario. I'd like to find out as soon as possible if we have the right people in charge so we can move on if need be.
416BillsFan Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Hot take, he might not be a good OC. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm I get his talent sucks but how much more talent does SF have than us right now? They are 15th in the nfl. They have more talent on offense at every position except for RB.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: What did undermanned NCAA schools do? The wing T spread seems like a good fit. Triple option ala Marshall or the latest iteration with Paul Johnson here locally Ga Tech come to mind ?
cgg716 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented. Every single member of that offense washed out of the NFL, never made even a slight impact anywhere else, except for Fitz, once again under Gailey. Gailey implemented a modern offense capable of producing despite severely deciefint talent. You don’t think it was deficient because Gailey made it look way better than it had any right to be, even under rules that weren’t as soft as now. Daboll can’t do this
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented. I think you are overrating the talent of those Gailey’s teams. SJ was a 7th round, Jones and Nelson weren’t drafted, Chandler bounced around the nfl, Fitz was a journeyman 7th rounder, and we all know about F Jax. Benjamin was a 1st rounder, Zay is a first rounder, McCoy is one if the best rbs, Clay is a good TE, and Allen was a top 10 pick. i think our current offensive evaluation sucks. But I also think coaches could get more out of the talent. Look back at the Jauron teams and their rosters. It is amazing they got 7 wins. Gailey maximized his talent. So while our talent isn’t good, the coaches aren’t maximizing it either. 1 hour ago, Scott7975 said: I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense. He played a huge part in the talent failure on offense I would assume. 1 hour ago, Scott7975 said: I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense. Maybe but I don’t think it’s nearly as huge as you think to make CJ beathard look so much better as a qb. I would argue that Shanahan is just a much better coach than Daboll.
MJS Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 6 hours ago, T master said: !st yr OC with this team, 1st yr new scheme, loss of 3 veteran starting offensive linemen one of which was a pro bowler, well below average WR corp, Rookie QB after a 2nd round 2nd yr QB with less than NFL potential starts the yr, then insert almost retired average at best QB with a career 20-27 win percentage after rookie gets hurt to carry the team . Sounds logical to me why you would think this OC sucks yah he has plenty to work with & there was no uphill battle here at all so WTF Dabol get off your A** & get this team on the winning side of things !! I didn't say he sucks. The offense sucks and there is a lot to overcome, obviously, but that doesn't mean that Daboll is good or that he is the right one going forward. There's no reason to believe that.
PolishPrince Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 12 hours ago, John from Riverside said: What offense should he run to improve the talent of his players? Designing more than 1 pass play to McCoy would be a start. Also not throwing only one screen all game... and it be to ANDRE HOLMES of all players on our roster.
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think you are overrating the talent of those Gailey’s teams. SJ was a 7th round, Jones and Nelson weren’t drafted, Chandler bounced around the nfl, Fitz was a journeyman 7th rounder, and we all know about F Jax. Benjamin was a 1st rounder, Zay is a first rounder, McCoy is one if the best rbs, Clay is a good TE, and Allen was a top 10 pick. i think our current offensive evaluation sucks. But I also think coaches could get more out of the talent. Look back at the Jauron teams and their rosters. It is amazing they got 7 wins. Gailey maximized his talent. So while our talent isn’t good, the coaches aren’t maximizing it either. He played a huge part in the talent failure on offense I would assume. Maybe but I don’t think it’s nearly as huge as you think to make CJ beathard look so much better as a qb. I would argue that Shanahan is just a much better coach than Daboll. You're fixating on draft position, which isn't relevant. Stevie Johnson was way better than a seventh rounder, and Fred Jackson was a bona fide good player. Fitz was and is better than what we have.
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