Koko78 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: That's my biggest fear with Trump that his base will not accept a 2020 result unless Trump wins. Maybe they'll invent a collusion narrative and work with our allies to attempt a palace coup! Seriously though, Trump and his supporters will accept a loss. Ignore the bullschiff rhetoric to the contrary - that was always just nonsense from Hillary's smear machine during her failed victory lap. Just now, Poleshifter said: The clocks in these "bombs" had no alarm mechanism. Yes, but did they keep good time?
billsfan89 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, Koko78 said: Maybe they'll invent a collusion narrative and work with our allies to attempt a palace coup! Seriously though, Trump and his supporters will accept a loss. Ignore the bullschiff rhetoric to the contrary - that was always just nonsense from Hillary's smear machine during her failed victory lap. I hope you are right in that Trump supporters will accept the results. Trump himself before the 2016 election did not commit to accepting the results (he danced around it not communicating his point clearly but implying the possibility of voter fraud) and he has constantly railed against voter fraud which intentional or unintentional has implanted that idea to his voters as to why he could lose. I know most supporters will support an election result but the hardest of the hardcore "Deep State" Trump supporters will not accept the results instead blaming any result that goes against what they want as a rigged election. That's my concern is that an election loss will be framed as a conspiracy as a lot of stuff is with Trumps more ardent supporters. 1
Koko78 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: I hope you are right in that Trump supporters will accept the results. Trump himself before the 2016 election did not commit to accepting the results (he danced around it not communicating his point clearly but implying the possibility of voter fraud) and he has constantly railed against voter fraud which intentional or unintentional has implanted that idea to his voters as to why he could lose. I know most supporters will support an election result but the hardest of the hardcore "Deep State" Trump supporters will not accept the results instead blaming any result that goes against what they want as a rigged election. That's my concern is that an election loss will be framed as a conspiracy as a lot of stuff is with Trumps more ardent supporters. The vocal minority won't be relevant, and their cries (were Trump to lose) will be quickly ignored and forgotten. This country has been based on a peaceful transfer of power. While this bullschiff Russia narrative from the failed Clinton smear machine has been somewhat unprecedented, the country will go on. Hell, current nonsense has been tame compared to the Andrew Jackson/J.Q. Adams fights.
RaoulDuke79 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, Poleshifter said: The clocks in these "bombs" had no alarm mechanism. The fact that not one of these devices detonated could be interpreted as a deplorable Trump supporter who's too stupid to figure out how to wire a bomb or a terrible hoax intended to rile people up before the midterms.
Poleshifter Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I hope you are right in that Trump supporters will accept the results. Trump himself before the 2016 election did not commit to accepting the results (he danced around it not communicating his point clearly but implying the possibility of voter fraud) and he has constantly railed against voter fraud which intentional or unintentional has implanted that idea to his voters as to why he could lose. I know most supporters will support an election result but the hardest of the hardcore "Deep State" Trump supporters will not accept the results instead blaming any result that goes against what they want as a rigged election. That's my concern is that an election loss will be framed as a conspiracy as a lot of stuff is with Trumps more ardent supporters. The Deep State people are not Trump supporters. The Deep State people are the shadow government people being rooted out of their holes by the Trump team.
RaoulDuke79 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, Poleshifter said: The Deep State people are not Trump supporters. The Deep State people are the shadow government people being rooted out of their holes by the Trump team.
boyst Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 41 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I hope you are right in that Trump supporters will accept the results. Trump himself before the 2016 election did not commit to accepting the results (he danced around it not communicating his point clearly but implying the possibility of voter fraud) and he has constantly railed against voter fraud which intentional or unintentional has implanted that idea to his voters as to why he could lose. I know most supporters will support an election result but the hardest of the hardcore "Deep State" Trump supporters will not accept the results instead blaming any result that goes against what they want as a rigged election. That's my concern is that an election loss will be framed as a conspiracy as a lot of stuff is with Trumps more ardent supporters. You're losing. Badly. But, I needed entertainment until my show caught up to where I fell asleep. Thanks for that but now I'm sad.
KD in CA Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I hope you are right in that Trump supporters will accept the results. Trump himself before the 2016 election did not commit to accepting the results (he danced around it not communicating his point clearly but implying the possibility of voter fraud) and he has constantly railed against voter fraud which intentional or unintentional has implanted that idea to his voters as to why he could lose. I know most supporters will support an election result but the hardest of the hardcore "Deep State" Trump supporters will not accept the results instead blaming any result that goes against what they want as a rigged election. That's my concern is that an election loss will be framed as a conspiracy as a lot of stuff is with Trumps more ardent supporters. I love this whine....especially from those who completely excuse the people who, in the end actually did REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION. 1
Rob's House Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Haha I right-click media links but it took me a few seconds to find the video. ***** off with this blind defense of Trump, you can still like the guy or his policies and not be a blind supporters of his.Did you not say and underline NEVER in that post? You were instantly proven wrong by the mans own words from just over 2 years ago when he was running for president and your best defense was that these quotes from 2016 and thus 2016=Never? Come on just be honest you were wrong. Now if you want to say as president he never has advocated for violence you might have a case to stand on but that's not what you said. I also would say that while not advocating for direct violence Trump in calling the media the enemy of the people and going hard after any media that dares to criticize him is creating an atmosphere of hostility towards those entities. Now I won't go as far to say as that has caused these actions but I don't think that Trump has helped the current landscape of political violence imposed by both sides. I don't necessarily disagree with this, but the broader issue is the widespread media and Democrat narrative depicting President Trump as the primary antagonist while they themselves can't pour gas on the proverbial fire fast enough. The same people making these claims, with a straight face no less, are the ones who took the gloves off and went after President Trump in the dirtiest, most dishonest, and mean-spirited media campaign in modern American history. They've sown the seeds of hatred and division while both overtly and subversively condoning and/or supporting violence. From the outset they dehumanized and demonized him, his family, and his supporters, freely tossing around inflammatory labels like fascists, white supremacists, and nazis, while reminding us it's okay, even virtuous, to punch a nazi. They defend antifa rioting, destroying property, and attacking people who are assembling peacefully. Conservatives can't even wear a MAGA hat without the risk of becoming a target for leftist violence, yet the Democratic leadership and media say nothing. Democratic Senators and congressmen are publicly calling for civil unrest and harassment of their opponents. And now they're crying foul? Now this is all the orange man's fault? It's a bit rich. The fact that these few clips are the strongest argument for President Trump advocating violence really speaks to how tame he's been compared to his opposition. I remember calls for civility being widely scoffed at by the left just a few months ago. Kicking conservatives out of restaurants, then forming a mob to go across the street and harass their families at another restaurant was a celebrated exercise of "resistence" (whatever the hell that means). It's not just the hypocrisy that's troubling. It's something far more vile and insidious than that. It's the reliance on, and expression of, supposedly sacred principles used as justification to attack, destroy, and dehumanizing others, at the cost of ripping apart the fabric of society, by people who don't actually give a damn about those principles, but merely exploit them in an attempt to gain power by spreading hate. That they accuse the other side of that for which they are exponentially more culpable is something far worse than hypocrisy. Among the rank and file, the truly disturbing part is the complete break with reality and utter lack of even a modicum of self-awareness. I think about 20% of my FB feed is living in a constant state of echo-chamber induced delusion, and I'm not being the least bit hyperbolic when I say that. These people live in a constructed fantasy filled with nazis hiding behind every door, and they truly believe it's reality. They've been convinced by those decrying President Trump's incivility, that violence against the imaginary nazis is a matter of self-defense and defense of others, lest the fascists annoint their dictator to oppress the poor and minorities. 2
Ol Dirty B Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I never recognized the inconstancy of one as noble, where the ***** are you coming up with this? You are projecting something that I never said. Obama and Clinton were phony for holding their anti-gay position until it became politically convenient to switch. Trump is allowed to change his mind and positions but he has given me no evidence that he has. The issue is not that he can't change his mind but rather that there isn't anything to indicate that he has. I was actually reading about how the news has always been radically slanted to fit the needs and purpose of those who owned it. Newspapers for as far back as they have been in print have always been questionable in their reporting. The Spanish American war was started by Newspapers for example. It was only for a brief period of time after World War II until the early 1980's that journalism and reporting was thought of as a public service and good that should be held to an objective series of standards so that the public can be informed as best as possible. I try to get as much of my information from varied sources myself. But I wouldn't hold alternative media as being inherently more noble than mainstream media. Their flaws and traps are different but they still have an agenda and a message they want to deliver. This is extremely accurate. It goes back even before the revolution. Then, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson all had their own newspapers essentially framing issues the way they wanted. WW2 to the 80s was a time of transition. I think the media now is similar to how it has been for most of our country's history. That time period, WW2 to the 80s, is very unique. The television became the primary news source versus news papers. In that time period, television did not offer options for people to seek out sources that reinforced their views. 3 sources existed, and all 3 could split the market and he profitable. Cable is what changed everything. You had audience fragmentation and people could find a source they agreed with. And now everyone is trying to carve out niches for profit or make a point. It's just like what the newspapers were in 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. And audience fragmentation leads to everyone having different facts, and polarization. Which is what we've seen over the past 20 to 30 years. Sorry, a bit long and off topic, but I found your post interesting. It's pretty much what I wrote my thesis for my bachelor's degree on. 2
billsfan89 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Koko78 said: The vocal minority won't be relevant, and their cries (were Trump to lose) will be quickly ignored and forgotten. This country has been based on a peaceful transfer of power. While this bullschiff Russia narrative from the failed Clinton smear machine has been somewhat unprecedented, the country will go on. Hell, current nonsense has been tame compared to the Andrew Jackson/J.Q. Adams fights. What I worry about is that a few wackos try and beat back the deep state by taking extreme actions. If you have people convinced that there is a New World Order type shadow government rigging everything then why wouldn't you think they would rig an election? And if you feel like Trump is some sort of Super Hero fighting against the deep state then you would be willing to do something extreme in order to fight for what is "right."
Ol Dirty B Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: What I worry about is that a few wackos try and beat back the deep state by taking extreme actions. If you have people convinced that there is a New World Order type shadow government rigging everything then why wouldn't you think they would rig an election? And if you feel like Trump is some sort of Super Hero fighting against the deep state then you would be willing to do something extreme in order to fight for what is "right." My uncle goes on about this deep state *****. It's crazy, I don't think they'll do anything but I could be wrong. Because if you believe that stuff and just accept your lot in life, because the stuff they believe is awful. Then they would have been doing real crazy stuff for years now. It's just depressed people who can't accept that they are the reason why they are where they are in life. Just an opinion, but it's a trend I've noticed in these deep state/illuminati types. Not sure if they are the same thing, I just tune them out at this point. They seem like the same person to me. 1
billsfan89 Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 53 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: This is extremely accurate. It goes back even before the revolution. Then, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson all had their own newspapers essentially framing issues the way they wanted. WW2 to the 80s was a time of transition. I think the media now is similar to how it has been for most of our country's history. That time period, WW2 to the 80s, is very unique. The television became the primary news source versus news papers. In that time period, television did not offer options for people to seek out sources that reinforced their views. 3 sources existed, and all 3 could split the market and he profitable. Cable is what changed everything. You had audience fragmentation and people could find a source they agreed with. And now everyone is trying to carve out niches for profit or make a point. It's just like what the newspapers were in 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. And audience fragmentation leads to everyone having different facts, and polarization. Which is what we've seen over the past 20 to 30 years. Sorry, a bit long and off topic, but I found your post interesting. It's pretty much what I wrote my thesis for my bachelor's degree on. It's a shocking misnomer that a lot of people have that the period from post WWII to the early 80's was what news and journalism always was. I kind of knew but I didn't know to what degree that was an extreme outlier until I read up on it. After WWII there was just a huge impact and change in culture given the shocking nature of the war. I do think that there was a societal impact to not repeat the conditions that led to two brutal wars. My personal opinion is that journalism and news was impacted by that post war mentality. There probably was a lot of study done into how the news helped the Nazi's rise to power and there probably was a big impact that state influenced/run propaganda had a hand in allowing the Nazi's to dehumanize the Jewish people and rise to power in general. I think colleges and universities started to implement the standards of teaching better journalism and professionals already working in the field held to that standard. But flash forward 35 years later and as news becomes more of a business due to the massive ad dollars that come in from it and there is a greater thirst for ratings. That thirst leads to a lot of sensationalism and that erodes ethics. I think the money infusing the product Then you have 24 hour news channels and 24 hour conservative talk radio and given that most of the time unless a 9/11 style event happens there really isn't a need for 24 hours worth of news it leads to punditry which once again leads to sensationalism and gets farther away from journalistic integrity. Then you get to the age of the internet and you have even more information out on the market and there becomes an incentive for people to pander to a specific type of audience in order to craft out a niche as you said. I still think there is good journalism out there, I would recommend to anyone to subscribe to your local newspaper (You can do so digitally if you don't want a physical copy) as they will actually try and break local stories and give you a decent perspective on the national news. A lot of good journalism gets done by local papers. 1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said: My uncle goes on about this deep state *****. It's crazy, I don't think they'll do anything but I could be wrong. Because if you believe that stuff and just accept your lot in life, because the stuff they believe is awful. Then they would have been doing real crazy stuff for years now. It's just depressed people who can't accept that they are the reason why they are where they are in life. Just an opinion, but it's a trend I've noticed in these deep state/illuminati types. Not sure if they are the same thing, I just tune them out at this point. They seem like the same person to me. The people I see on Facebook that really believe in the "Deep State" are serious about it, I don't know anyone I interact with in person that buys into it but while they are a small minority it still is a lot of people. It only will take a few wackos and some careless words from Trump to have some ***** possibly go off. I don't think Trumps ego would allow him to calm down a situation in a preventative manner. If Trump loses in 2020 and he insinuates there was possibly voter fraud or something else going on (A careless come I could see him making) then that could really set a few people off to take arms against the government.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 Backlash against the heavily redacted news people were fed during WWII. In Vietnam it was the Wild West, with the body bags and dead count being shown nightly on TV. Now we are going back to redacting out of "respect" for the dead and "security" of the Nation. Everything ebbs and flows. 1
Teddy KGB Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 Local papers are crap too. They parrot whatever CNN/Msnbc/Wapo has to say
Ol Dirty B Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Local papers are crap too. They parrot whatever CNN/Msnbc/Wapo has to say I mean half of them are owned by Gannett. If it's a secondary or tertiary market, Gannett owns them. If it's a big market paper it seems like the Bezo's, or Murdoch's of the world run them. It's the same people feeding you the narrative they want. Lol here I go sounding like a deep stater @billsfan89. But seriously, my opinion with the news. I loved doing it when I was in college and didn't have to work. You just have to consume everything and try to pick out a little from every source. Some of what MSNBC says is true, some of what fox says is true, same for CNN. You go through those three and you know what everyone's intention is, middle it. That's how you really get as close to the full story as you can in my opinion. CNN used to be more middle of the road, and now in my opinion, they take everything trump says so personally and have gone off the deep end. I wouldn't even consider CNN liberal, they're just angry at this point. But then again, they're being mailed pipe bombs and getting death threats. It's just a mess, editors were threatened, tarred and feathered, faced execution essentially 250 years ago. However, as much as I give a pass to things and say, that's how it has usually been. I don't think also saying we should be better than we were 250 years ago is completely unfair either. Edited October 26, 2018 by Ol Dirty B
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Misterbluesky said: Could you imagine seeing John Belushi do a Trump piece.... with a samurai sword LOL 12 hours ago, Koko78 said: Yeah, unfunny comments he made before he was President... As B-Man said: Weaksauce. what you don't get is people are stupid enough to believe this hack standup comedian.
boyst Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 5 hours ago, billsfan89 said: It's a shocking misnomer that a lot of people have that the period from post WWII to the early 80's was what news and journalism always was. I kind of knew but I didn't know to what degree that was an extreme outlier until I read up on it. After WWII there was just a huge impact and change in culture given the shocking nature of the war. I do think that there was a societal impact to not repeat the conditions that led to two brutal wars. My personal opinion is that journalism and news was impacted by that post war mentality. There probably was a lot of study done into how the news helped the Nazi's rise to power and there probably was a big impact that state influenced/run propaganda had a hand in allowing the Nazi's to dehumanize the Jewish people and rise to power in general. I think colleges and universities started to implement the standards of teaching better journalism and professionals already working in the field held to that standard. But flash forward 35 years later and as news becomes more of a business due to the massive ad dollars that come in from it and there is a greater thirst for ratings. That thirst leads to a lot of sensationalism and that erodes ethics. I think the money infusing the product Then you have 24 hour news channels and 24 hour conservative talk radio and given that most of the time unless a 9/11 style event happens there really isn't a need for 24 hours worth of news it leads to punditry which once again leads to sensationalism and gets farther away from journalistic integrity. Then you get to the age of the internet and you have even more information out on the market and there becomes an incentive for people to pander to a specific type of audience in order to craft out a niche as you said. I still think there is good journalism out there, I would recommend to anyone to subscribe to your local newspaper (You can do so digitally if you don't want a physical copy) as they will actually try and break local stories and give you a decent perspective on the national news. A lot of good journalism gets done by local papers. The people I see on Facebook that really believe in the "Deep State" are serious about it, I don't know anyone I interact with in person that buys into it but while they are a small minority it still is a lot of people. It only will take a few wackos and some careless words from Trump to have some ***** possibly go off. I don't think Trumps ego would allow him to calm down a situation in a preventative manner. If Trump loses in 2020 and he insinuates there was possibly voter fraud or something else going on (A careless come I could see him making) then that could really set a few people off to take arms against the government. #NPC This is one of the most pathetic hyperboles one could make and your ability to argue with sound logic is deafening to those who not only understand logic but those who endure to find common ground with you to discuss the issue. You have, in this thread, dismissed the election results, dismissed the ability of a president to have the 1st amendment, displayed countless hypocrisies, and then...AND THEN dismiss the idea of the deep State and it's possibility of conspiracy to build your own theory of conspiracy on how Trump MAY cause a revolution if he loses the 2020 election. And you've wrapped it all up in a display that says you're worried about some whacko doing something as a result? Son,what you have just wrapped your words around is as far fetched as anything and it is society that needs to fear your justification in use of force to uphold your rights. This is something the left has done for dozens of years and it's sickening that the cognitive dissonance and delusion can take over someone's mind so effectively that they become toxic to freedom based on nothing more than emotion because they're unable to handle fact and logic becauae #npcorangemanbad.
boyst Posted October 26, 2018 Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: with a samurai sword LOL what you don't get is people are stupid enough to believe this hack standup comedian. But they're smart enough to know Maxine Waters screaming for violence in the street isn't a big deal when there was an active shooter take down in Washington last week and two more who never fired a shot but we're there with weapons? They're smart enough to know Kathy Griffin is only using satire and Jimmy Kimmel thinks he's funny? They're smart enough to know that the guy who planned to massacre the GOP baseball team was just 1 guy who doesn't represent anyone else upset about health care? I'm sad for our future when, as you said, people are so damn stupid. This world needs more mirrors and opportunities to call out bigots and hypocrites. Until then violence is acceptable to the left and the GOP is the one full of hate. Y'all need a course in history something bad 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: FAKE NEWS Cute. What's your point? Do you not agree there is countless fake news and endless supplies of narratives being pushed by the news media that undermind all this country is about? And you're mad now because ... #npcorangemanbad??? Where were you in all the cases of the last 20 years of narratives?
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