McBeane Confidence

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

1 minute ago, The_Dude said:

McDumbass sealed his fate when he traded the 10th pick to the Chiefs 2 drafts ago. What. An. Idiot. 

Refresh my memory. Who did they pick with that ?

[hondo in seattle]

51 minutes ago, H2o said:

I took 60-80% on both. What they did with marginal talent last year was amazing. I expected this year to be worse than last due to simple math with subtractions versus additions. I think the tide starts to turn next year and everyone will see it. In this league you never know though so I will hold out until I see what we are looking like early next May. 

 

I agree mostly with your comments.  Anyone who looked at the substractions and roster spending knew this was going to be a bad year.  

 

I rated 40-60% because neither Beane or McD has a lot of experience at their current jobs.  There's not much of track record to judge them on.  I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic.  

[sven233]

9 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

1. That is wildly untrue. This is why hyperbole is so toxic.  "Every single time they talk."  I mean, really, when they were saying that it is a QB driven league and you have to get the passing game going, they weren't saying running game and defense comes first.  This kind of garbage is how false narratives start.  

 

2. They have made clear that QB and the passing game is most important. 

 

3. Context matters.  We do not have a QB.  We have to rely on RB and defense until we get a franchise QB.  That does not mean that philosophically they don't understand that QB needs to come first.   

 

He litterally said it today:

 

WGR 550‏Verified account @WGR550 6h6 hours ago

McDermott - I'd love to score 50 points, that'd allow me to sleep a lot easier. Balance is key, but you want to be able to attack the weakness of the defense. Where we live in Buffalo, you want to be able to be physical and run the football.

 

This is the type of antiquated thinking that will get you blown out by real teams.  The idea that you have to run the football because we are in Buffalo is insane.  New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Philadelphia, etc. etc.......  All cold, bad weather cities that realized a long time ago that you throw the ball to win.  I am tired of hearing coaches say that you have to win by running the ball because we live in Buffalo.  It is dumb and untrue.  Heck, even the 90's Bills threw the ball a ton (at the time) in Buffalo and didn't have a problem scoring points. 

 

We don't have a QB.  We don't have weapons.  The trades and picks we have made for offensive players have all been terrible (Allen excluded because it is too early).  Show me 1 time that they have identified a great offensive player that has contributed to our team.  Show me 1 bit of proof they know what offensive talent looks like.  I'll wait, but not too long because there is no answer.  You can have blind faith that they can figure out the offense.  But I haven't seen 1 example to show me, or anyone else for that matter, that they know what a good offensive player looks like.  The only decent offensive talent they had on their team they traded away or let go and now they are contributing to other teams.  Name the 1 guy they have brought in on offense that has made us better.  They can talk about it being a QB driven league all they want.  That is an obviously fundamental statement that the entire NFL knows.  It's about walking the walk and not talking the talk.  Right now our offense is worse than offenses that played on the 30's and 40's.  How long do you think they get to crawls out of the stone age on offense?  This league is about what have you done for me lately......  They don't have forever to get it right.

Edited October 23, 2018 by sven233

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, sven233 said:

 

We don't have a QB.  We don't have weapons.  The trades and picks we have made for offensive players have all been terrible (Allen excluded because it is too early).  Show me 1 time that they have identified a great offensive player that has contributed to our team.  Show me 1 bit of proof they know what offensive talent looks like.  I'll wait, but not too long because there is no answer.  You can have blind faith that they can figure out the offense.  But I haven't seen 1 example to show me, or anyone else for that matter, that they know what a good offensive player looks like.  The only decent offensive talent they had on their team they traded away or let go and now they are contributing to other teams.  Name the 1 guy they have brought in on offense that has made us better.

 

So now you are changing your argument.  First you said they sucked because they don't believe its a passing league.  Now you are saying they cannot pick competent offensive players.  

 

I don't have an answer for you.  They are building the team their way.  They have decided not to invest in the offense yet.  I am not sure why, but by all appearances it looks like they believe you start with the QB and work your way out.  Besides, what have they traded away? Watkins? Glenn?  Dawkins has been as good as Glenn. Watkins is now a #2 WR.  

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, The_Dude said:

McDumbass sealed his fate when he traded the 10th pick to the Chiefs 2 drafts ago. What. An. Idiot. 

 

 

Does it make you feel big to make ad hominem attacks on others?

 

I get the people who are losing faith in McD.  He's been something like a .500 coach thus far.   He's made mistakes.

I don't get the mean-spiritedness and childishness.  Why do need to make up derogatory nicknames (McDumbass) and call people idiot?    Are we in middle school?  How does childish rudeness make the dialogue here better - more fun or insightful?

Edited October 22, 2018 by hondo in seattle

[sven233]

14 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

So now you are changing your argument.  First you said they sucked because they don't believe its a passing league.  Now you are saying they cannot pick competent offensive players.  

 

I don't have an answer for you.  They are building the team their way.  They have decided not to invest in the offense yet.  I am not sure why, but by all appearances it looks like they believe you start with the QB and work your way out.  Besides, what have they traded away? Watkins? Glenn?  Dawkins has been as good as Glenn. Watkins is now a #2 WR.  

 

Not changing my argument at all.  I said they are operating under the premise that defense and running win.  They can talk about a QB driven league being the way to go all they want, but to this point, they haven't shown they believe that.  Outside of Allen and a couple of late round flyers, the draft was all about defense.  Their free agents were all about defense.  They let all of their average to above average offensive talent go.  Any offensive player they have brought in have been busts (jury still out on Allen).  I am asking them to prove it to me that they believe offense and scoring points is the way to win in the NFL, not just talk about it.  To this point, all they have done is talk about the QB being important.  Who cares......  show me you mean it and that you know how to and can do it.

 

This whole topic is about your confidence level in the organization and their chances of being successful in the next 2-3 years.  I am saying there is no way, to this point, you can be confident in them being successful because they haven't proven they recognize the way to win in this league is through offense and scoring a lot of points.  Everything they have done to this point has been the opposite.  They shouldn't have forever to figure it out.  If they put up 1-2 more seasons scoring at the bottom of the league, they won't (shouldn't) be here.  And they are so far away from a good offense it's a joke.  Don't talk about it, be about it.  And to this point, they have shown zero signs of knowing what it takes to win on a regular basis in this league.  Until they do, how can anyone be confident?

Edited October 22, 2018 by sven233

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, sven233 said:

 

Not changing my argument at all.  I said they are operating under the premise that defense and running win.  They can talk about a QB driven league being the way to go all they want, but to this point, they haven't shown they believe that.  Outside of Allen and a couple of late round flyers, the draft was all about defense.  Their free agents were all about defense.  They let all of their average to above average offensive talent go.  Any offensive player they have been brought in have been busts.  I am asking them to prove it to me that they believe offense and scoring points is the way to win in the NFL, not just talk about it.  To this point, all they have done is talk about the QB being important.  Who cares......  show me you mean it and that you know how to and can do it.

 

This whole topic is about your confidence level in the organization and their chances of being successful in the next 2-3 years.  I am saying there is no way, to this point, you can be confident in them being successful because they haven't proven they recognize the way to win in this league is through offense and scoring a lot of points.  Everything they have done to this point has been the opposite.  They shouldn't have forever to figure it out.  If they put up 1-2 more seasons scoring at the bottom of the league, they won't (shouldn't) be here.  And they are so far away from a good offense it's a joke.  Don't talk about it, be about it.  And to this point, they have shown zero signs of knowing what it takes to win on a regular basis in this league.  Until they do, how can anyone be confident?

 

I mean, when they make the sort of investment in QB that they did this year, and still think they don't care about offense, there just isn't much to be said.  I think its pretty obvious they care and they think that drafting the QB is the first step.  

[Soda Popinski]

It really depends on what they do with the cap money and draft picks.    If they screw it up I'll be pissed.   We have to get better on the oline.  Period.    There is no excuse for not spending some money and getting  a better center and guard in here.  We still need a right tackle, this line has gotten so bad people are starting to think Mills is passable.    

 

We need at least 3 wrs, and NOT junk pile just get em in cheap and hope for the best WRs.   That's not what the Rams did, or the Chiefs, they signed guys and traded for guys and still drafted guys.   We need to do the same.   get some talent on the offensive side of the ball.    

 

On defense it's pretty straight forward, CB/DE/LB in that order.    Need a #2 corner, need a pass rusher, and need another LB.   Beyond that we need to work with what we have.    But again we HAVE to get some talent on offense so we can score points.    

 

Oh, and I swear to god if Peterman is on the roster in 2019 I'm changing my vote to 0% confidence.    Get a friggin backup QB who can actually back up. 

[Real McClappy]

 

 

[sven233]

6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I mean, when they make the sort of investment in QB that they did this year, and still think they don't care about offense, there just isn't much to be said.  I think its pretty obvious they care and they think that drafting the QB is the first step.  

 

And it is a good first step, although some will argue that they didn't pick the right guy.  It's too early to say that for sure, but as of now, it isn't exactly promising yet.  But regardless, you have to be able to help your young QB and all that they have done is hinder him.  They took away all his weapons.  They are playing him well before he is ready to be on the field.  They have no real QB coach.  They had no veteran QB ahead of him to learn from until a week and a half ago.  The list of failures on offense is astounding.  So yeah......how can anyone have faith at this point that they will get it right?  They have not done 1 thing right on the offensive side of the ball, the most important side of the ball, since they have come in.

Edited October 22, 2018 by sven233

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, sven233 said:

 

And it is a good first step, although some will argue that they didn't pick the right guy.  It's too early to say that fir sure, but as of now, it isn't exactly promising yet.  But regardless, you have to be able to help your young QB and all that they have done is hinder him.  They took away all his weapons.  They are playing him well before he is ready to be on the field.  They have no real QB coach.  They had no veteran QB ahead of him to learn from until a week and a half ago.  The list of failures on offense is astounding.  So yeah......how can anyone have faith at this point that they will get it right?  They have not done 1 thing right on the offensive side of the ball, the most important side of the ball, since they have come in.

 

I was fine with the plan at the start of the year.  We were going to sit Allen, start Peterman (who had clearly won the starting job in preseason), and then continue to build.  I don't think they cared about forcing the talent issue on offense because 1) they didn't think theyd have to use Allen much, if it at all, and 2) they could worry about adding talent in the following years through free agency and the draft.  

 

All of these arguments assume that winning this year was important.  It just wasn't.   

[sven233]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I was fine with the plan at the start of the year.  We were going to sit Allen, start Peterman (who had clearly won the starting job in preseason), and then continue to build.  I don't think they cared about forcing the talent issue on offense because 1) they didn't think theyd have to use Allen much, if it at all, and 2) they could worry about adding talent in the following years through free agency and the draft.  

 

All of these arguments assume that winning this year was important.  It just wasn't.   

 

Winning games didn't mean much to me either this year.  What did matter is the rookie QB's development no matter who it was.  But to go into this year thinking Peterman was going to be good enough to get you through the year is a tragic fatal flaw in anyone's plan, especially to the guys that run the team.  There is no way that should have even been a thought and that is nothing more than another strike against the organization and another reason why they shouldn't have anyone's faith to figure this out in the next 2 years.

Edited October 22, 2018 by sven233

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

Winning games didn't mean much to me either this year.  What did matter is the rookie QB's development no matter who it was.  But to go into this year thinking Peterman was going to be good enough to get you through the year is a tragic fatal flaw in anyone's plan, especially to the guys that run the team.  There is no way that should have even been a thought and that is nothing more than another strike against the organization and another reason why they shouldn't have anyone's faith to figure this out in the next 2 years.

 

He was the best quarterback in the preseason, far and away. At that point it was easy to dismiss what happened last year as a "one off," especially based on his preseason performance.  We had a vet QB, and was a distant third.  I can't understand why we would keep him on the roster when he was playing that poorly.  

[Roundybout]

39 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

McDumbass sealed his fate when he traded the 10th pick to the Chiefs 2 drafts ago. What. An. Idiot. 

 

I love hindsight. So refreshing. /s

[Big Gun]

10 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

It really depends on what they do with the cap money and draft picks.    If they screw it up I'll be pissed.   We have to get better on the oline.  Period.    There is no excuse for not spending some money and getting  a better center and guard in here.  We still need a right tackle, this line has gotten so bad people are starting to think Mills is passable.    

 

We need at least 3 wrs, and NOT junk pile just get em in cheap and hope for the best WRs.   That's not what the Rams did, or the Chiefs, they signed guys and traded for guys and still drafted guys.   We need to do the same.   get some talent on the offensive side of the ball.    

 

On defense it's pretty straight forward, CB/DE/LB in that order.    Need a #2 corner, need a pass rusher, and need another LB.   Beyond that we need to work with what we have.    But again we HAVE to get some talent on offense so we can score points.    

 

Oh, and I swear to god if Peterman is on the roster in 2019 I'm changing my vote to 0% confidence.    Get a friggin backup QB who can actually back up. 

If this year was about the "tank" and no expectations other than be bad, who cares if they lose and Peterman plays, right? 

 

I could care less about Peterman but why complain about him playing and sucking if the purpose is to be bad? The argument makes no sense!

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, pop gun said:

If this year was about the "tank" and no expectations other than be bad, who cares if they lose and Peterman plays, right? 

 

I could care less about Peterman but why complain about him playing and sucking if the purpose is to be bad? The argument makes no sense!

Because watching Peterman throw pick 6s doesn't help Allen in any way.   All it does is demoralize the entire team, just like it did in Houston, and then we go out and crap the bed on defense vs Indy.    How do you get motivated to play football when you coach refuses to acknowledge a guy can't play in the league at the most important position?   

 

Being a learning and developing year for Allen is one thing, but sucking just to suck, and learning nothing from it is another.   

[The_Dude]

30 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

Does it make you feel big to make ad hominem attacks on others. 

 

I get the people who are losing faith in McD.  He's been something like a .500 coach thus far.   He's made mistakes.

I don't get the mean-spiritedness and childishness.  What do people make up derogatory nicknames (McDumbass) and call people idiots.  Are we in middle school?  How does childish rudeness make the dialogue here better - more fun or insightful?

 

Hondo, he's a wealthy NFL coach. Getting called a 'dumbass' on a message board comes with the job. The only reason I'd think we're in middle school now is because I'm getting a lesson on civility and feelings. If you're so into feelings, maybe you shouldn't be into football? And no, it doesn't 'make me feel big.' It does make me feel better though. 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, fridge said:

As a guy who thinks it's probably somewhere between 5 - 10%, I resent being associated with the 0% group. At least I'm factoring in the chance that every member of every roster except ours gets a nasty year-long bout of the measles and has to sit out the 2019 season.

I think it’s somewhere between 80 - 90%, and I’m associated with the 100% group. It’s all good.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I'm 80% sure they will one day be thought of as the worst in Bills history. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

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