That_Guy Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 everyone in this thread needs to hug it out 1
4BillsintheBurgh Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, pop gun said: So even knowing the coach was a wrong hire you want to stick with it just because? Nope keep hiring and firing until you have found the right guy. Yes you stick with it and keep collecting talent, because being able to pick talented guys is what matters. If the coach depresses the talent you have, you will get better picks and a better chance at talent. Were were close because we were picking talented guys. Then you can bring in the right coach to lead the talent you have. It will be interesting to see who the Browns bring in, for example, to get the most out of their talent. Our owners need to find a football guy to run the team for them so a dump of talented players won't be allowed and we can move forward.
Maybe Someday Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 59 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: The fact that it is 2018 & not 1985. The winner of the game is determined by who scored the most points. So, build a team that is designed to score as many points as possible. For ****'s sake, I've had it with the "DEEEEEEFESNE WINZ CHAMPIONSHIPS" & "RUNNNNN THE BALL" nonsense. Throw quickly & often, score 28+ every week & you will beat the stupid teams like the Bills that are busy calculating "field position". Well, the solution is to stop hiring bad ones that don't have any idea how to run an innovative, modern offense. The real mistake is to waste another year or two on a clueless fossil like McDermott. With the wrong people, all "continuity" gets you is more losses. These are both great ideas in theory and I've seen the same basic concept posted again and again but you've got to have the players in order to make these work. How innovative of an offense can you really run when you have a QB with the skillset of Tyrod Taylor or a raw rookie like Josh Allen? Neither of which has shown the ability to consistently make quick reads and get the ball out. Do you really want either of them throwing the ball 30+ times a game? Do you believe that Daboll has the offense fully installed at this point and would be doing everything exactly the same way if we had a veteran QB? Daboll has to restrict the offense to what Allen and now Anderson can handle. I fully expect that as Allen improves and we add some players around him, the things we try to do on offense will expand as well. Will Allen ever be good enough to fully run one of these innovative, modern offenses with all the checks and reads, I don't know but I do know that he is not able to mentally handle it right now. Asking him to do so would probably be even more disastrous than what we've already seen. Also, the modern NFL is not only passing the ball despite what many seem to think, the best offenses in the league can also run the ball really well. Over the coarse of history, that has usually been the case.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 21 hours ago, jrober38 said: Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants. All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days. You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL. What you are overlooking however, is that virtually every team that is putting up points has a complementary run game that keeps pass rushers honest and from just pinning their ears back, as would be for a team playing catch up and being in a pass only mode. Name a top 5 team that gets no production from their backs? If you think you don’t need competence at the RB position and a line that can open gashing holes for said RB’s then you are sorely mistaken. Buffalo has some competence at the RB spots but is still a work in progress. But the adage that a strong running game opens up the pass is still true. The bills have struggled to be consistent with the run and their WR’s struggle to do anything given their overall deficits, and the line struggles to pass block long enough for deeper patterns to develop.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: The fact that it is 2018 & not 1985. The winner of the game is determined by who scored the most points. So, build a team that is designed to score as many points as possible. For ****'s sake, I've had it with the "DEEEEEEFESNE WINZ CHAMPIONSHIPS" & "RUNNNNN THE BALL" nonsense. Throw quickly & often, score 28+ every week & you will beat the stupid teams like the Bills that are busy calculating "field position". Well, the solution is to stop hiring bad ones that don't have any idea how to run an innovative, modern offense. The real mistake is to waste another year or two on a clueless fossil like McDermott. With the wrong people, all "continuity" gets you is more losses. The lowest ranked rushing offense in the playoffs last year was the titans at 15. Super bowl champs were 3rd, the jags were 1st, the panthers and saints were 4th and 5th. Buffalo vikings chiefs rams and patriots were all top 10. So it seems like running the ball is kind of important to winning, and to scoring points. The defense part seems a bit unfounded too. Seattle was good because of defense and won a super bowl. Denver won a super bowl with gimpy armed peyton. The harbaughs played in the super bowl with top defenses.
PatsFanNH Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 Ok wow! This is how I see it from the outside: 2nd year coach and GM: 1st year broke the longest playoff drought in the NFL. Second year went up and drafted what they feel will be their franchise QB. Now based off of what I heard the talking heads say about him then.. it was obvious the idea was for him to watch and learn from a vet. Sadly he outplayed the vets they had. (Or perhaps fortunately) the team has been inconsistent all year. Allen shows flashes of his raw talent but as expected makes dumb mistakes like a rookie and runs to often. (Ok I hate running QBs they never seem to last in the NFL) the O is lacking talent, they thought they had a #1 WR in Benjamin but he doesn’t appear get any separation and well seems done. My point is simple. I can see what their thought process was. Get a good defense that will keep us competitive while the rookie learns (preferably behind someone) then draft a few more playmakers on O. (Like a WR and maybe a RB in the 3rd or 4th round) then next year you have if it goes according to plan the Pats 2001 Offense.. good, doesn’t make mistakes with TO and feasts off of other team mistakes.
John from Riverside Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said: Yes, waiting 15-20 years for the Bills to be innovative & entertaining is soooo "entitled millennial". Fixed it for you. By instant grat I mean you are expecting wins when you damn well know that you should not and everything pointed to that before the season
jrober38 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: What you are overlooking however, is that virtually every team that is putting up points has a complementary run game that keeps pass rushers honest and from just pinning their ears back, as would be for a team playing catch up and being in a pass only mode. Name a top 5 team that gets no production from their backs? If you think you don’t need competence at the RB position and a line that can open gashing holes for said RB’s then you are sorely mistaken. Buffalo has some competence at the RB spots but is still a work in progress. But the adage that a strong running game opens up the pass is still true. The bills have struggled to be consistent with the run and their WR’s struggle to do anything given their overall deficits, and the line struggles to pass block long enough for deeper patterns to develop. Our running game and OL are not the reason we're throwing for an NFL worst 129 yards per game. Our passing game is horrible because our QBs are terrible at throwing the football.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Our running game and OL are not the reason we're throwing for an NFL worst 129 yards per game. Our passing game is horrible because our QBs are terrible at throwing the football. I’m not disagreeing with you about the lack of good QB play, I’m just saying it’s a combination of problems offensively that contributes overall however to where we are at right now. 1
Gigs Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 Beane = Murray. Grab bag of picks with no clear plan, and adds “talent” by going against the grain. What’s Tim Murray up to as Sabres GM....oh wait. Beane is just another cog in the way of an actual GM. The Pegulas are slow to learn from their mistakes, but they eventually do; its growing pains. McBeane is just another sacrificial duo as they learn how to run a football team. Not many GM/HC combos can survive going to the playoffs then strip down the team, rush a raw QB, suffer horrendous seasons and still remain the GM/HC. The writing is on the wall and some of you older fans need to stop drinking the kool aid and drop the process nonesense because it’s making Jauron look ok
jrober38 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I’m not disagreeing with you about the lack of good QB play, I’m just saying it’s a combination of problems offensively that contributes overall however to where we are at right now. I don't think it does. Other NFL teams have bad receivers, or a poor line, or no running game, or a combination of those things, and none of them are even remotely close to as bad as us when it comes to throwing the football.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I don't think it does. Other NFL teams have bad receivers, or a poor line, or no running game, or a combination of those things, and none of them are even remotely close to as bad as us when it comes to throwing the football. The cardinals beg to differ, despite better talent than Buff across the offensive board.
cgg716 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Posted October 23, 2018 To those with the eagles D arguement. Note that they gave up 24 or more points 9 times last regular season. The definition for good defense is changing rapidly, as I suspect ppg to just continue climbing everywhere. They certainly weren't the 2000 ravens.. because this isn't 2000
jrober38 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: The cardinals beg to differ, despite better talent than Buff across the offensive board. Exactly. The supporting cast doesn't matter as much as people think when you're dealing with replacement level QB play. The Bills and the Cardinals are both terrible at throwing the ball because their QBs have been terrible all season. 1
reddogblitz Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Your point here does not say what you think it says. Help me out here please. What point am I trying to make? What does it really say?
Avisan Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: If his is revisionist, that puts it on the same footing as yours. Yeah, we backed in, but let's see some links of a bunch of forecasts mentioning "being annual contenders for the playoffs." Our recievers were worse than the ones we have now, the right side of the OL was (and is) weak, our LBs were considered very weak with Brown, Humber and Alexander as the expected starters and the safeties looked solid but not nearly as good as they ended up playing. We weren't expected to be good. Yeah, we were very lucky to sneak into the playoffs. But the defense considerably outplaying expectations absolutely came down to the new regime. And that's nonsense about identifying offensive talent. They have put their emphasis on the defense. They've used very little draft capital or FA money on the offense. But of the people they did bring in, Jones and Benjamin are finally beginning to play well, Dawkins looks like a huge success and Ducasse has been pretty solid, a significant FA bargain. The verdict is still out on Allen, of course. That could turn out to be an awful pickup. Or not. Too early to know. Yeah no Our WRs were fine and vastly more talented than what is currently on our roster, our O-line was solid at worst and had provided excellent running seasons for us, our LBers were similarly solid, and our D-line was expected to continue to be good. Average defense at worst. On offense our WRs were fine, as mentioned, our RB stable looked great, TE was looking pretty good... what we were missing and have been missing is a productive, efficient passer and good overall coaching decisions, the Bills' not being considered as annual contenders is specifically because we've been missing those elements I really don't feel like doing the Thurman-thinks-he's-smarter-than-everyone-even-though-he's-of-pretty-standard-intelligence dance with you because it's exhausting and completely pointless but in a nutshell we underperformed relative to previous years on both sides of the ball last year but the way things shook out we made the playoffs anyway, and now the complete gutting of the roster is kicking in, yielding the atrocity we now see on the field
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 Let McBeane show us this offseason what they have been working towards for the last 2 years. You can't fire a coach who broke a ridiculous playoff drought and then has a down year while attempting to clear millions of dollars of bad contracts. Let them sign players this offseason and see what they have built after that. After next season, there are no excuses, we need to see a team that can compete with anyone in the league or then we start talking about who our next HC is going to be.
Nihilarian Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 I can see what McD is attempting to do by hiring Brian Daboll who would have taken over for Pats OC Josh McDaniel's had he gone to Indy. The thing is the Buffalo Bills don't have a top flight QB and it could take a few years to develop one. In the meantime defenses do win championships and having a power run game helps that defense immensely by keeping them on the bench and fresh. It's my take that Daboll was the wrong hire and he doesn't have the knowledge to properly develop a rookie QB as raw as Josh Allen. All that said the only real reason I can see to fire McD is that he needs to fix the penalties! The freaking drive killing, lining up wrong, false start, holding etc. Texans game was lost because of a lack of discipline! 12 penalties for 104 yards. Colts, 7 for 59 yards. Ravens, 10 for 100 yards. Some games it's not so bad and others it's just out of control. 1
MikeSpeed Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 I fully expect us to draft high and that pick to be on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe that of our current 10 picks that more than half will be on the defensive side of the ball also. Of course those of you that believe you always draft the best player available might agree with them. I will always believe you should draft for need trading to make the best player available be a pick of need.
billsfan_34 Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, pop gun said: So even knowing the coach was a wrong hire you want to stick with it just because? Nope keep hiring and firing until you have found the right guy. If that is your philosophy so be it. Coaches in this league, imo, cant be succesful until you have a franchise QB and a complement of players to go with. Right now, he has neither yet. We can agree to disagree- and disclaimer, im not sold on McD but im willing to give it a little more time.
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