The True reason to fire McDermott

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

LMAO at the posters who think this is exactly what McDermott wants.

 

Did you eat paint chips as a child?

 

Dude, it's pointless. I've given up.

 

 

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

But each of those teams...in addition to having effective passing games...also have quite effective running games.  There was a reason why the Patriots drafted Sony MIchel.  They knew that running the football is still important in this league.  You certainly can't be one-dimensional and only think that running and stopping the run will win you football games.  However, running and stopping the run is still an important element to winning.  The Colts ran for 220 yards against the Bills.  Luck threw for 150.  Both those numbers were important to their victory.  

 

The Bills problem now is we're not executing anywhere.  That's players and scheme.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

NOT BEING FIRED !

 

 

[fridge]

1 hour ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Gailey's offense was lightyears better  than this team in every position besides running back. I don't think he's trying to build a defense first team, so much as he inherited a team that already had most of the defensive pieces in place, and doesn't really need to be rebuilt like the offense does. 

 

Are you joking? He had Stevie Johnson, Donald Jones and David Nelson.  A 7th rounder and two undrafted FA's.  Gailey was a bad coach, but his offensive scheming and ability to squeeze production out of no talent should never be questioned.

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Yet in 5 of the 13 games yesterday (38%), the winning team scored less than 25 points. 

 

38% is lower than 62%, you know that right?

[Wayne Arnold]

50 minutes ago, pop gun said:

That's a big tub of poo.

 

This whole cluster was a McBean creation.

 

Riiiiiiiight.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He's an example of a young, forward-thinking OC.  Did I say that's who they should hire? No...it was an example of the mold of coach they should be looking at IMO

 

Sometimes you need to look past the numbers in a single season. For example: would you hire an OC that had the 30th ranked offense in terms of points and 32nd ranked offense in terms of yards, purely based on reputation?  What if that same guy had previously coordinated an offense that finished top-5 in points scored, but had finished no better than 14th since?

 

That guy just so happened to be Mike McCarthy back in 2006, who went on to become a great HC in Green Bay.  He got that job because he was a forward-thinking OC and play-caller that could work with their young QB. 

Sounds a lot like Daboll, albeit the sucesss was in college. 

 

Highly thought of by Saban and Belicheck.

 

Ironic you’re suggesting to look past the numbers in a single season based on the circumstances the coach has to deal with... because that’s exactly what is going on with Daboll lol.

[LSHMEAB]

I don't understand why people aren't more upset about the pathetic defensive performance yesterday.

 

I'd be more optimistic about the narrative that McDermott only knows defense if his defenses weren't so routinely trounced.

[thebandit27]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

Sounds a lot like Daboll, albeit the sucesss was in college. 

 

Highly thought of by Saban and Belicheck.

 

Ironic you’re suggesting to look past the numbers in a single season based on the circumstances the coach has to deal with... because that’s exactly what is going on with Daboll lol.

 

Daboll has not had anything close to McCarthy's level of success in any stop as an OC.  In fact, he's been largely horrid on the whole--bottom 1/4 in yards every year, bottom 3 in points every year, and only once in 5 seasons did he have a passing offense better than 29th (and in that season Miami finished 23rd in passing yards).

 

You can lol all you like, but "look beyond the numbers" doesn't mean "ignore terrible performance at every turn"

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't understand why people aren't more upset about the pathetic defensive performance yesterday.

 

I'd be more optimistic about the narrative that McDermott only knows defense if his defenses weren't so routinely trounced.

 

Because on the whole, the defense has played very well for the last month; having one bad game is much more excusable than being putrid all the time.

[BillsMafia13]

1 hour ago, Avisan said:

Is this a joke?????

 

Our TEs were what, Scott Chandler?  Starting WRs were Donald Jones and David Nelson.  Stevie meshed well with Fitz but washed out of the league shortly after he left.  Our offensive line consisted of stalwarts like Demetress Bell and Geoff Handgartner and whatever bums we skimmed off of a practice squad to play guard any given week.  Wood ended up being a solid center once he moved over but we had NO offensive talent.

 

Pretty much ever single skill player we had under Chan is no longer in this league.

They still scored a ton of points with a lack of talent.  So yes it was lightyears better WITH Scotty the Body playing TE

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

I’m not a doom and gloom guy normally but he has got to go for a simple reason, what he is attempting to build is no longer effective in the NFL.

 

We can not be defense first, not with these rules, we cannot have play calling from the 1970s, unable to take advantage of the rules. And two coordinators now have done this.

 

People that defend him will point to the talent, 11 pts a game in a league where 35 is routine runs so much deeper than that. We saw Gailey score plenty of points with the same talent level. Innovate or die, McDermott can’t innovate and he could ruin Allen out of that stubbornness.

 

The Rams and Bears did it, firing two more accomplished coaches to catch up to the league, the Bills have to as well 

McDermott coached in the NFC South for years, and it's a division loaded with good offenses and coaches like Payton. He also coached under Andy Reid, who he regards as his mentor.  You should also assume that McDermott is highly aware that the Panthers finished in the top 10 in offensive DVOA in 2013 and 2015 (playoff/super bowls seasons), and in the 20s in the years they missed the playoffs (2014 and 2016). Indeed,  Carolina finished 1st in points in 2015. He knows that it's the way to win, but at present he can't do it because of the personnel. I fully expect that the Bills will go all in on acquiring offensive talent next off-season.  That is the only way to run a higher-octane offense, and he's smart enough to know that. 

 

In other words, I fundamentally disagree with the premise of the post. 

[JM57]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

McDermott coached in the NFC South for years, and it's a division loaded with good offenses and coaches like Payton. He also coached under Andy Reid, who he regards as his mentor.  You should also assume that McDermott is highly aware that the Panthers finished in the top 10 in offensive DVOA in 2013 and 2015 (playoff/super bowls seasons), and in the 20s in the years they missed the playoffs (2014 and 2016). Indeed,  Carolina finished 1st in points in 2015. He knows that it's the way to win, but at present he can't do it because of the personnel. I fully expect that the Bills will go all in on acquiring offensive talent next off-season.  That is the only way to run a higher-octane offense, and he's smart enough to know that. 

 

In other words, I fundamentally disagree with the premise of the post. 

So you're telling me that despite being aware of the value of an offense, he, along with his handpicked GM Beane, took an offense that was inconsistent but able to put points on the board, ripped it to the studs and drafted a low floor, low chance to succeed project QB on purpose?

 

Wow.

[McBean]

Let’s just keep firing everybody every 2 years. It seems like it’s worked wonders for us in the past.

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, McBean said:

Let’s just keep firing everybody every 2 years. It seems like it’s worked wonders for us in the past.

 

THANK YOU

[Peter]

1 hour ago, Avisan said:

Firing the HC every 2 years is necessary when you keep hiring bloody awful head coaches

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, McBean said:

Let’s just keep firing everybody every 2 years. It seems like it’s worked wonders for us in the past.

I thought it was ridiculous to undermine and fire the last coach (who was the winningest in almost two decades) in less than two years.  It hurt us in terms of continuity and in the eyes of many.  To fire McCoach in less than two years also would be ridiculous (even though, as I say, I am not a huge fan).

Edited October 22, 2018 by Peter

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

I’m not a doom and gloom guy normally but he has got to go for a simple reason, what he is attempting to build is no longer effective in the NFL.

 

We can not be defense first, not with these rules, we cannot have play calling from the 1970s, unable to take advantage of the rules. And two coordinators now have done this.

 

People that defend him will point to the talent, 11 pts a game in a league where 35 is routine runs so much deeper than that. We saw Gailey score plenty of points with the same talent level. Innovate or die, McDermott can’t innovate and he could ruin Allen out of that stubbornness.

 

The Rams and Bears did it, firing two more accomplished coaches to catch up to the league, the Bills have to as well 

 

I thought there was going to be some story about him making unwanted advances toward Russ Brandon or something.... ‘sigh’ 

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

I’m not a doom and gloom guy normally but he has got to go for a simple reason, what he is attempting to build is no longer effective in the NFL.

 

We can not be defense first, not with these rules, we cannot have play calling from the 1970s, unable to take advantage of the rules. And two coordinators now have done this.

 

People that defend him will point to the talent, 11 pts a game in a league where 35 is routine runs so much deeper than that. We saw Gailey score plenty of points with the same talent level. Innovate or die, McDermott can’t innovate and he could ruin Allen out of that stubbornness.

 

The Rams and Bears did it, firing two more accomplished coaches to catch up to the league, the Bills have to as well 

Have some patience.

 

McDermott and Beane both will not outlast Allen.

When Allen is declared a bust, probably some time middle of next year, McBeane will be gone at season's end.

 

They will be fired; just not right now.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

32 minutes ago, JM57 said:

So you're telling me that despite being aware of the value of an offense, he, along with his handpicked GM Beane, took an offense that was inconsistent but able to put points on the board, ripped it to the studs and drafted a low floor, low chance to succeed project QB on purpose?

 

Wow.

I think a couple of things happened. 1) They got the QB they wanted, who is probably the closest comparable to Cam Newton in the league in terms of skill set. 2) McDermott misjudged on Zay Jones. They thought he was a potential difference maker and he isn't (so far). A lot of teams liked him coming out too; the Bills weren't alone. It happens. 3) Wood and Incognito retiring were unexpected moves that had negative knock-on effects. As @BADOLBILZ has said numerous times, the FA market for o-linemen last season was dreadful. The  Bills' line is terrible, but there are a lot of shaky o-lines out there and the available talent pool is really, really thin. 4) FA signings/trade acquisitions like McCarron, Matthews, and Benjamin didn't work out. That's on them. I'm sure they're aware of that. Both Matthews and Benjamin had been productive elsewhere, but they both flailed here. 

Regardless, the plan was always going to be a tear-down/rebuild of the offense. Moreover the plan was also always to upgrade the personnel on D (which they did, to their credit) and get the big-time high-ceiling QB (and please, let's not pass any judgment on him yet) before filling out the offense. 

 

My larger point is that these guys are clearly not stupid. They made some miscalculations on talent, but I'm quite sure they see Pittsburgh's offense from 2017 (with a 6'5" QB who can sling it) as a model, not Pittsburgh's offense from 1976, when they had two 1,000-yard rushers.  That premise is just wrong. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by dave mcbride

[mannc]

23 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

 

I thought it was ridiculous to undermine and fire the last coach (who was the winningest in almost two decades) in less than two years.  It hurt us in terms of continuity and in the eyes of many.  To fire McCoach in less than two years also would be ridiculous (even though, as I say, I am not a huge fan).

So you think Rex deserved to stay?? Wow.

[JM57]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think a couple of things happened. 1) They got the QB they wanted, who is probably the closest comparable to Cam Newton in the league in terms of skill set. 2) McDermott misjudged on Zay Jones. They thought he was a potential difference maker and he isn't (so far). A lot of teams liked him coming out too; the Bills weren't alone. It happens. 3) Wood and Incognito retiring were unexpected moves that had negative knock-on effects. As @BADOLBILZ has said numerous times, the FA market for o-linemen last season was dreadful. The  Bills' line is terrible, but there are a lot of shaky o-lines out there and the available talent pool is really, really thin. 4) FA signings/trade acquisitions like McCarron, Matthews, and Benjamin didn't work out. That's on them. I'm sure they're aware of that. Both Matthews and Benjamin had been productive elsewhere, but they both flailed here. 

Regardless, the plan was always going to be a tear-down/rebuild of the offense. Moreover the plan was also always to upgrade the personnel on D (which they did, to their credit) and get the big-time high-ceiling QB (and please, let's not pass any judgment on him yet) before filling out the offense. 

 

My larger point is that these guys are clearly not stupid. They made some miscalculations on talent, but I'm quite sure they see Pittsburgh's offense from 2017 (with a 6'5" QB who can sling it) as a model, not Pittsburgh's offense from 1976, when they had two 1,000-yard rushers.  That premise is just wrong. 

Great post, but that takes me right to my next point on these guys. Every one of their offensive additions to this point has been a swing and miss. How am I supposed to believe they're just going to magically figure that out this off-season

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Almost a year and a half on the job and no one knows what McDermott wants.

 

All he talks about is running the ball and playing defense, as if that's how you win in the NFL these days.

 

You win in the modern NFL by scoring points. Lots of points. 

 

All of the top teams right now have forward thinking progressive coaches who are trying to innovate. 

Who knows what we're trying to do, and that's a problem. We're scoring less than 12 points a game which is unheard of in the modern NFL.

You know exactly what they are trying to do....you just dont agree with it.   Plain and simple