The Bills deliberately did not maximize their roster talent this year

[3rdand12]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:00 PM, vorpma said:

Great idea - if you want to be acknowledged as ignorant - go for it!

I thought it was assumed, my ignoramus ness.
I'm and idiot.

On 10/21/2018 at 8:19 PM, fansince88 said:

My standard is come to work go beyond what is expected for 8 hours and go home....

5s is a method developed by Japans Toyota manufacturing.
 Some very smart methods of managing. if employed correctly in  the proper applications

 Lean, Six Sigma etc all work. But not for everyone.

 

 I am all about do your job.

[Paulus]

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fine, you want better coaching, better weapons, more experience and a much more innovative offensive system. I'd argue that you're making unwarranted assumptions. I would like to see him get whatever he needs. I don't think all four of those are obvious needs, and I'd argue that a better OL might trump almost all of those four, and possibly - though I certainly hope not - more time on the bench might also be a bigger need than those four.

 

As for your list of four, it's one opinion. If McDermott, who has a ton more info on the situation than we do, shares it, DB'll be gone. If he's still here it'll be a very good indication indeed that there is good reason to think that he was handicapped by the roster.

 

And Daboll doesn't have a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator. His track record is mixed and debatable. Terrific at Alabama. Arguable at places like KC in a sinking ship with Crennel at the helm and Cassel at QB and at Miami with Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB. Remind me, has anybody made these QBs look like NFL starters? Same with Cleveland. Whereas he apparently did a terrific job at NE. It's arguable. If he'd been terrible and everyone knew it, he wouldn't be here.

 

And I'd also argue that Goff has a much much better idea than you do of what caused him to look better. And while he gives a ton of credit to McVay, he simply thinks he improved an awful lot in his second year. He's probably exactly right.

I like and appreciate this post

15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You going anywhere?

 

The fans will hang with them.

 

Half of them (at the games) are there to get drunk and just looking for something to do anyway.

 

I'm not sure the actual quality of football is that important with such fans.

 

 

are you quite sure about this ?

I think the quality of Football is certainly important to us Fans.
 

13 hours ago, Helpmenow said:

I hardly watch anymore. Waiting for the hammer on beane and McDermott. Glad I got witness the glory years.

you mean losing the superbowls ?
i was there

 it sucked actually.
i actually turned off the Giants game and stop watching Bills for over a decade.
 

 now it is interesting to me to see if they can build something. Maybe they cannot. Maybe the curse is real !

But i like to check in and see what is going on

5 minutes ago, Paulus said:

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

sacrifice Peterman?

 

yes i called it. exactly so

 a lamb to the slaughter. fight or die

[Helpmenow]

I was there for the AFL 

[Coach Tuesday]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:06 PM, Lv-Bills said:

Pretty easy to me what I personally don't see.  Their plan is assanine.  

 

#1 - They tried to tank last year, and that quick start, coupled with an absolute horrid year for the AFC put them in the playoffs.  OK, no biggie.  It was fun anyway.  

 

#2 - The plan this year was to finish the tank.  Fine.  Just say so.  I've been a season ticket holder for almost 20 years.  Don't play this dumb charade like they are trying.  I can easily handle that they wanted this year to do the things you said above, which is the easy way out of things.  They haven't done anything hard.  The cut a bunch of people.  That's the easiest part of their plan.

 

#3 - The draft picks they have next year......great.  They have a bunch of mid round picks.  They usually don't amount to much.

 

#4 - My biggest gripe.  Their plan this year is flat out garbage.  You don't draft a QB high like they did, and completely gut the offense around him.  It's absolutely stupid.  They knew, and didn't address, the WR corps at all.  If anything, they got worse.  That's inexcusable.  Then, they pretty much did the exact same thing to the line in front of their new rookie QB.  Granted, they had a couple of flukish things go against them in Richie and Wood, but still had time to address things.   Not really sure why a relatively young Cordy Glenn was also run out of town.   Next, they stand pat with a backfield of a couple of 30 plus year old RB's.  Seems smart to me.   If all of those draft picks we have next year are that impressive, McCoy should be out of here for a 4th or 5th.  

 

They botched the QB room, period.  Even if they wanted Allen to sit this year, they had to figure at some point he would have to play once one of our other deer in the headlights guys (Peterman or McCarron when he was here) was going to get hurt.   This is a NFL team that is seriously challenged in completing a downfield pass.  In the year 2018, we can't score a TD in half the games we play.  It's not about anything other than how this roster is constructed.  And it's not constructed to help a rookie QB develop.  Defense though........another story.  Seems pretty logical.  Not.

 

I get they are tanking on purpose.  Albeit, it might be the only team in NFL history trying their best to lose while already having their high priced rookie QB.   So, what are we tanking for?  A LT I guess.  RT?  WR?  Who knows.

 

I'm hoping they can't be this incredibly stupid.  They have next year, and that's it.  There's no more excuses after this year to address this putrid offensive roster.  Clear space or not, there's no reason this roster is this bad.  None.

 

There's plenty out there that people "don't get".   And rightfully so.

 

I know someone like Chris Brown would probably tell us something different, and how rosy things are, but come on.  There's reason to be somewhat concerned about their "process".

 

 

 

Post of the Year, honestly.  This says it all.

[vorpma]

12 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

I thought it was assumed, my ignoramus ness.
I'm and idiot.

5s is a method developed by Japans Toyota manufacturing.
 Some very smart methods of managing. if employed correctly in  the proper applications

 Lean, Six Sigma etc all work. But not for everyone.

 

 I am all about do your job.

I was way out of line referring to 3rd and 12 as ignorant and apologize!

[3rdand12]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:02 AM, vorpma said:

I was way out of line referring to 3rd and 12 as ignorant and apologize!

Oh my !

 Do not worry for that !

 I would think that some folks would concur    me included on occasion !! 

 

Thanks for the pm's though.

 Cheers !

 

Go Bills !
 

 

[gobills1212]

Id say thanks capt obvious, but i dont want to sound sarcastic;)

[TigerJ]

I personally don't think McBeane targeted a high draft pick.  I do think they wanted to pick up a couple key pieces to their team.  Those turned out to be Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds.  Beyond that I think Beane made a decision that this was the year they were going to eat their dead cap money.  That definitely limited what they could do with respect to team building.  They probably realized it could be difficult to have a lot of wins this year, but McDermott is not coaching to lose IMO.

[CDogg20]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, jtothebrown said:

This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail.

 

Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team.

 

They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded.

That was a little Scooby Doo humor!

I mean yeah I agree. Was this ever up for debate? Last year they tried but this year I knew this was how it was going to go. It’s all part of the plan. Similar to the Eagles plan with Wentz 

[iinii]

On 10/22/2018 at 8:44 PM, Paulus said:

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

Me either. In what universe is gutting your team and losing a path to success? 

[Thurman#1]

On 10/22/2018 at 5:45 AM, boater said:

Yep. There's so much to be gained by sucking.

 

Your team value goes down. Ticket prices freeze. Your career reputation goes down. All so positive..lets deliberately suck.

 

"Let's pass on Mahomes, he'll make us good when we're trying to suck"

 

 

Yeah, remember how Bill Walsh got fired when he went 2-14 and 6-10 his second. So little to be gained from years like that. Hang on, maybe I can find a better example.

 

Remember the Panthers sucking for several years and getting Newton and Kuechly the next two ... oh, wait.

 

The Eagles sucked in Andy Reid's last two years there and turned that into a bunch of players who helped them win the SB.

 

The Saints went 7-9 two years in a row and got Sheldon Rankins, Michael Thomas, Marshon Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams and Alvin Kamara out of it.

 

There's plenty to be gained by sucking, as long as it's during a rebuild or you use it to fix your cap and draft well. Rebuilds don't guarantee success. They just maximize the chances of it.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, iinii said:

Me either. In what universe is gutting your team and losing a path to success? 

 

 

This one. 

 

Bill Walsh says hello. So does Jimmy Johnson. Pete Carroll. I could go on.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[BillsFan1988]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:42 PM, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

6 starters and a couple more depth players is damn good and anyone who says otherwise has it out for the regime. 

Thats pretty standard stuff 3 starters per draft is average. Damn us Bills fans have come accept medicrity. 

 

Considering the massive mistakes on the offensive side of the ball this regime needs to be fired.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:33 PM, TheTruthHurts said:

 

Biggest difference is an offensive innovator isn't coaching the offense next season. They aren't firing Daboll. 

Daboll has a horrible track record with horrible QB's. What it tells you is he doesn't improve players. 

 

 

No, it doesn't tell you that. It tells you he didn't turn bad players into good ones. None of those bad QBs was a young guy with a ton of potential. They were guys who had been around and been bad for a pretty long time. 

 

Might he have gotten the very best possible out of bad talent? Yeah, that's very possible. The best a coach can do is maximize his talent. He can't change one guy into another.

 

Neither Belichick nor Nick Saban hire or tolerate bad coaches. Guys who might not be good head coaches? Yeah, they'll tolerate them. But they don't tolerate guys who don't do their jobs and do them damn well.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Jasovon]

I'm keeping the faith, but it's possible there isn't some masterplan and these guys aren't outsmarting the whole league. 

 

Sometimes the fans know more about football than the people running their team, hope this isn't one of those times.

[Rebel101]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, jtothebrown said:

This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail.

 

Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team.

 

They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded.

That was a little Scooby Doo humor!

I got blasted for posting something similar to this. The words i used for my headline was different. But the context was the same pretty much. The FO had no intentions of trying to put a football team on the field that could compete. Which I think is ***** and shows a complete lack of respect. I just don’t understand how you waste a lot of picks on a project QB and put him in a situation where he has no chance to succeed. Did they just say let’s make it as hard on Allen as possible and if he comes out of this better then we know we have something I don’t understand 

[iinii]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This one. 

 

Bill Walsh says hello. So does Jimmy Johnson. Pete Carroll. I could go on.

Point taken but for every Walsh, Johnson, and Carroll how many coaches and organizations have done the opposite? The Bills alone have more than three. You think McDermott is in that class?

[DuckyBoys]

McDermott is a decent coach.  He and Beane understood the Bills needed to retool their roster to have long term success.  They only have so many picks and so much money to acquire players.  They probably could have stuck some short term band aids on this roster and tried to squeeze out another 9-7 year with a bunch of fluke type wins.  This is what the argument boils down to.  Rip off the band aid and start fixing things properly for a winning team that is sustainable or continue to look for short term fixes.  This year is going to suck.  Everyone should have seen that coming.    Truthfully I was shocked at last year and expected it to be a 4 or 5 win season.   Now there is no guarantee they will get right but so far some of the early returns are good.  They have 7 starters from the 14 picks used in the 2017/2018 drafts.  Compare it to 2015/2016.  Next year they have 10 picks plus a lot of cap space.  Stands to reason next years roster will be more talented and younger.  If Allen shows progress next year should be a winning season. If they want a insurance policy for Allen than pick up a decent FA qb for 2019 . Long as they don't make stupid signings and get hung with trash salaries like Mario Williams, Charles Clay we'll be in good shape for the future. We have had some horrible drafts between 2009-2016 Hiring Rex and letting him influence the drafts to get guys for his system hurt even more.

[Kelly the Dog]

Don't you gut the team in year one not year two when you're trying to rebuild? Yes, they did some of it last year, too, but why not get it out of the way earlier than later? We would be year one into the rebuild not ground zero. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Kelly the Dog