Big Gun Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 3 hours ago, SDS said: None of these players were expected to be long term players. How about young good players like Glenn, Darby, Woods, Watkins, Ragland, Dareus they decided weren't process guys. McBean and their process has become an unmitigated joke. I dont give a damn that they $90 million in cap room alot of other teams will have alot of cap room also. How are they going to convince any FA to join a disaster except way way over pay for them. That $90 million wont go very far having to overpay for good FAs.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: He said they were set up to fail. What would the point of that be? Sorry, but these guys aren’t going to ace every draft pick and get great FA signings to boot. Even if you buy what they’re selling, the OPs premise is planned failure by the enitire organization. You never plan to be the worst , at least not in football. It doesn’t work and just brings another housecleaning. It’s incompetence and poor execution of an even worse plan. You're selling your opinion as fact. You have no clue how many picks will hit or how many FA's will become legit impact players so already saying they screwed it up is ridiculous imo and vice versa like you said. The plan has been to get Josh Allen progressing forward, he took a bit of a hit with the injury, this regime also wasn't planning on losing both Wood and Incognito which both had to be a kick to the nuts. Again I'm not agreeing to everything this regime does but together McDermott and Beane only will have 1 full season together, you aren't even curious to see what it might look like before ridiculing it?
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 I don’t care what anyone thinks or says about the season goals. This defense has good players on it. This defense should be good now. Losing games is one thing. Having your defense not show up nearly 50% of the time is not supposed to happen. There is probably an excuse for the offense. The effort on this defense is not a plan. It’s a sign of bad things to come from this regime
apuszczalowski Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 5 hours ago, SDS said: Seriously? They moved as many veterans that are not a part of the future off the books this year, have loaded up on draft picks next year, and have $90 million in cap space. What exactly is it that you don’t see? A glimpse of improvement and that they are on the right path?
apuszczalowski Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: Some fans don't see the vision. They only care about this year and how to make it better right now. It's gotta be tough to be a fan that sees the game that way. You'd always be screaming for heads. Not sure if they understand that when they say "Process" it means it's going to be a while. So your one of those suckers that they hoped everyone would be, willing to chug the koolaid that they just need time trust a bunch of first time coaches and GMs to completely gut and rebuild a team successfully. You also are more then likely not a season ticket holder, or even a ticket holder putting down good money to watch them play this year 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: They are not still looking for him...they drafted him this year. Interesting how this offense is horrible no matter who they put behind center....maybe the problem is more then just the QB? Yep that is probably right. Not really when you consider that they started TC and the preseason with 3 guys who had less then a seasons worth of experience as starters in the NFL, and the most recent starter who has been with the team for less than 2 weeks was out of football until the Bills called and handed started a game in about 2 years? Lots not pretend they trotted a Manning or Brady out there and still couldnt get the offence going.
apuszczalowski Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, SDS said: None of these players were expected to be long term players. But they were expected to be contributors even in the short term 3 of them just became additional Dead Cap money to add to one of the highest dead caps the league has seen, and 2 would have been if they didn't make the choice to retire. 3 of them were supposed to be improvements on one of the leagues worst receiving corps, and another was supposed to be the starting QB this season and allow Allen to sit and learn this year.
DefenseWins Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Tre White Poyer and Hyde Dawkins Edmunds Milano There's five Why do Poyer and Hyde only count for one? I'd say there's 6... Harrison Philips seems to be playing pretty well for a rookie too... Hauschka seems to be a pretty decent kicker as well... Edited October 22, 2018 by DefenseWins
Doc Brown Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 McBeane's lack of urgency to address the WR position irked me all off-season both in free agency and the draft. I get that they didn't know Incognito was retiring so I can somewhat excuse their o-line moves. I disapproved of everything they did as far as the qb situation goes including drafting Allen, not signing a veteran QB, and hiring an offensive coordinator in Daboll who's resume was horrible in that position. I was hoping to be wrong, but nothing thus far has shown me I wasn't. Like it or not our future is all about Allen so we're going to have to do everything we can to put him in the best position to succeed. That means firing Daboll and hiring a more accomplished offensive coordinator to steer Allen in the right direction as he's shown zero improvement under Daboll. I get the continuity argument but Daboll is just that bad. Goff is a good example of what a new offensive system can do for a young QB. We have 10 draft picks to use to try and upgrade our o-line and WR position. Hopefully we can lure some decent WR or O-line FA with all the cap space we have even if it means overpaying. Our defense looks to be in pretty good shape despite today's poor performance with a good blend of youth and veteran leadership.
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, jtothebrown said: This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail. Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team. They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded. That was a little Scooby Doo humor! Valuing the long term over the short term is smart, and that's what they've done. And again, they promised the owners they'd clear up the horrendous cap mess by the end of this year. So yeah, to do so they had to stay light on FAs, they had to let some guys go they maybe would've rather kept, and they had to try to use up all the dead money this year and not pass it on to next year. They were always going to suck this year. That's not setting the team up to fail, it's understanding in advance that's the way the cards had fallen and valuing the future over this year. Yeah, it's hard to watch. But those surprised by this were too high in their expectations. Edited October 22, 2018 by Thurman#1
davefan66 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 They are in cap jail. Can’t have the depth needed to win in this league if you don’t have the money to pay. We are projected to have the 3rd best cap space in 2019 behind the Colts and Jets. Odds are we’ll end up overpaying for FA’s next year, but have the space to do it for a few. Couple that with another good draft, and maybe we have the talent to move forward. Now, if our coaching could step up....
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, pop gun said: How about young good players like Glenn, Darby, Woods, Watkins, Ragland, Dareus they decided weren't process guys. McBean and their process has become an unmitigated joke. I dont give a damn that they $90 million in cap room alot of other teams will have alot of cap room also. How are they going to convince any FA to join a disaster except way way over pay for them. That $90 million wont go very far having to overpay for good FAs. Oh, well if YOU don't care about the cap room, that's huge. Till now I'd thought the importance of a healthy cap situation to the owners and to virtually every team in the NFL that is consistently good was the important thing. Boy, was I silly. As for overpaying, that's nonsense. Not true for Buffalo any more than anyone else. The team that offers the most gets the guy. That's the system. Plenty of good FAs go to bad teams. Hell, the Browns picked up two or three very solid guys the offseason after 0-16. As for your list of good young players ... please. Ragland? He's played less than half KC's defensive snaps and hasn't produced well even when he's in. Dareus? Wildly overpaid and producing ... what, he's had zero sacks on one QB hit this year. One tackle for loss. He's not producing anywhere near the way he did here and he was underproducing here. Watkins you're obviously right about. He's on track to put up a massive 725 yards on the season with Patrick Mahomes throwing to him!!! He's the new Megatron. Glenn, I'd love to have kept. It's be great if they had two good tackles. But they couldn't afford it. Same with Woods, who's actually been a terrific bargain for LA. Darby by all accounts wasn't a good scheme fit. It's too bad but it happens. He's not having a good year for Philly but I'd guess he'll iron things out. But bad scheme fits happen. And our defense has not been the problem this year. You may not care about getting the cap under control. But it's S.O.P. for the best teams in football. Doing what they did hurt. But in the long run, it's plain smart. 48 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: McBeane's lack of urgency to address the WR position irked me all off-season both in free agency and the draft. I get that they didn't know Incognito was retiring so I can somewhat excuse their o-line moves. I disapproved of everything they did as far as the qb situation goes including drafting Allen, not signing a veteran QB, and hiring an offensive coordinator in Daboll who's resume was horrible in that position. I was hoping to be wrong, but nothing thus far has shown me I wasn't. Like it or not our future is all about Allen so we're going to have to do everything we can to put him in the best position to succeed. That means firing Daboll and hiring a more accomplished offensive coordinator to steer Allen in the right direction as he's shown zero improvement under Daboll. I get the continuity argument but Daboll is just that bad. Goff is a good example of what a new offensive system can do for a young QB. We have 10 draft picks to use to try and upgrade our o-line and WR position. Hopefully we can lure some decent WR or O-line FA with all the cap space we have even if it means overpaying. Our defense looks to be in pretty good shape despite today's poor performance with a good blend of youth and veteran leadership. People keep pretending Goff is just a product of the coaches. And there's no reason to think that's true. Goff was always considered to be much more NFL-ready than Allen, and yet he was making a lot of bad decisions last year that he's not making this year, and with better players around him. Yeah, the good coaching sure didn't hurt but he's simply playing better and a ton of that is likely that he understands what he sees a lot better, understands defenses better, and that the game is slowing down for him. Goff didn't improve a whole lot as his rookie season went along. Why would you expect that of Allen, who again was considered much less NFL-ready? Edited October 22, 2018 by Thurman#1
Doc Brown Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: People keep pretending Goff is just a product of the coaches. And there's no reason to think that's true. Goff was always considered to be much more NFL-ready than Allen, and yet he was making a lot of bad decisions last year that he's not making this year, and with better players around him. Yeah, the good coaching sure didn't hurt but he's simply playing better and a ton of that is likely that he understands what he sees a lot better, understands defenses better, and that the game is slowing down for him. Goff didn't improve a whole lot as his rookie season went along. Why would you expect that of Allen, who again was considered much less NFL-ready? I don't expect Allen to improve this year because of an inept offensive coaching staff like the Rams had Goff's rookie season. That's my whole argument for firing Daboll after only one season. Edited October 22, 2018 by Doc Brown
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: A glimpse of improvement and that they are on the right path? Yeah, hard to see any improvement at all. No LB improvement. No defensive improvement. They didn't draft a 4th round CB who's playing well as a rookie. The DL hasn't started looking better. There's been improvement. A lot more than a glimpse. There's also been some areas with huge problems. But that' was always what looked like it was going to be this year. It's what teams in the second year of rebuilds look like and it's even worse when you have to start the rebuild in horrible cap shape. Yeah, it's hard to watch. Man, that was an awful game. But again, that is what teams this early in major rebuilds look like. And please, folks, don't give examples of teams that had better looking rosters and are in their third of fourth year of rebuilds, or teams that had decent enough rosters to reload rather than rebuild as counter-examples. That's apples and oranges. It's way ... way ... early. Edited October 22, 2018 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I don't expect Allen to improve this year because of an inept offensive coaching staff like the Rams had Goff's rookie season. That's my whole argument for firing Daboll after only one season. Well, it's not a particularly convincing argument. You assume that his improvement comes from better coaching. In fact, it's just as likely ... more so, really ... to be that Goff's simply playing better in his second year and he's got a better roster around him. Yes, good coaching helps. What's generally a lot more important is the player and the roster getting better. They went from Tavon Austin, Kenny Britt, Brian Quick and Lance Kendricks, upgraded to Cooper Kupp, Woods, Austin, Watkins and Higbee and upgraded again to Woods and a non-rookie Kupp and Brandin Cooks. Not to mention major improvement of the OL and major improvement of Goff's decision-making and understanding. Check this article out: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/27/jared-goff-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay-vikings-thursday-night-football "The point here? Goff’s come a long way in two years, for sure. But it didn’t happen all at once. And if you think it’s all coaching, Goff isn’t going to let that get to him, or even try to change your mind, and he insists it doesn’t bother him in the slightest. “'Never. Never,' Goff said. '[McVay’s] incredible and he deserves all the praise he gets. My rookie year was not so good, and coming into my second year, one of two things was going to happen—I was gonna be bad or I was gonna be good. And if I was good, they were gonna pin it on someone else. It’s all positive, it’s the way it works. I expected this coming into everything. All I can do is get better.'" Exactly. Edited October 22, 2018 by Thurman#1
Doc Brown Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 54 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Well, it's not a particularly convincing argument. You assume that his improvement comes from better coaching. In fact, it's just as likely ... more so, really ... to be that Goff's simply playing better in his second year and he's got a better roster around him. Yes, good coaching helps. What's generally a lot more important is the player and the roster getting better. They went from Tavon Austin, Kenny Britt, Brian Quick and Lance Kendricks, upgraded to Cooper Kupp, Woods, Austin, Watkins and Higbee and upgraded again to Woods and a non-rookie Kupp and Brandin Cooks. Not to mention major improvement of the OL and major improvement of Goff's decision-making and understanding. I assume Goff's massive improvement after his rookie season comes from a combination of better coaching, better weapons, more experience, and a much more innovative offensive system. I think the Bills need to provide Allen with all four next year and that means firing Daboll who has a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator.
eanyills Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) There are two flaws to this logic. 1. They got their guy at QB. There’s not a reason to tank anymore. Teams don’t purposefully tank after getting their franchise QB. 2. The clock’s clicking. With Allen missing time and the offense so devoid of weapons, there’s less to go on evaluating Allen but if this team/Allen doesn’t look improved next year, you can bet McBeane will be let go. Bad regimes simply don’t stick around like they used to. You need results. They don’t have the luxury of letting Allen develop AND being a joke of a team. As an aside, McD doesn’t sound like a guy on a throwaway year. In his press conferences and radio spots, he sounds legitimately frustrated, like a guy who knows he needs to get this turned around immediately. Edited October 22, 2018 by eanyills
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I assume Goff's massive improvement after his rookie season comes from a combination of better coaching, better weapons, more experience, and a much more innovative offensive system. I think the Bills need to provide Allen with all four next year and that means firing Daboll who has a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator. Fine, you want better coaching, better weapons, more experience and a much more innovative offensive system. I'd argue that you're making unwarranted assumptions. I would like to see him get whatever he needs. I don't think all four of those are obvious needs, and I'd argue that a better OL might trump almost all of those four, and possibly - though I certainly hope not - more time on the bench might also be a bigger need than those four. As for your list of four, it's one opinion. If McDermott, who has a ton more info on the situation than we do, shares it, DB'll be gone. If he's still here it'll be a very good indication indeed that there is good reason to think that he was handicapped by the roster. And Daboll doesn't have a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator. His track record is mixed and debatable. Terrific at Alabama. Arguable at places like KC in a sinking ship with Crennel at the helm and Cassel at QB and at Miami with Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB. Remind me, has anybody made these QBs look like NFL starters? Same with Cleveland. Whereas he apparently did a terrific job at NE. It's arguable. If he'd been terrible and everyone knew it, he wouldn't be here. And I'd also argue that Goff has a much much better idea than you do of what caused him to look better. And while he gives a ton of credit to McVay, he simply thinks he improved an awful lot in his second year. He's probably exactly right. Edited October 22, 2018 by Thurman#1
Fadingpain Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Helpmenow said: Their expecting the fans to hang with them I guess. You going anywhere? The fans will hang with them. Half of them (at the games) are there to get drunk and just looking for something to do anyway. I'm not sure the actual quality of football is that important with such fans. 2
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Their team looks a lot like the Bears right now last year. Biggest difference is an offensive innovator isn't coaching the offense next season. They aren't firing Daboll. 4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Fine, you want better coaching, better weapons, more experience and a much more innovative offensive system. I'd argue that you're making unwarranted assumptions. I would like to see him get whatever he needs. I don't think all four of those are obvious needs, and I'd argue that a better OL might trump almost all of those four, and possibly - though I certainly hope not - more time on the bench might also be a bigger need than those four. As for your list of four, it's one opinion. If McDermott, who has a ton more info on the situation than we do, shares it, DB'll be gone. If he's still here it'll be a very good indication indeed that there is good reason to think that he was handicapped by the roster. And Daboll doesn't have a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator. His track record is mixed and debatable. Terrific at Alabama. Arguable at places like KC in a sinking ship with Crennel at the helm and Cassel at QB and at Miami with Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB. Remind me, has anybody made these QBs look like NFL starters? Same with Cleveland. Whereas he apparently did a terrific job at NE. It's arguable. If he'd been terrible and everyone knew it, he wouldn't be here. Daboll has a horrible track record with horrible QB's. What it tells you is he doesn't improve players. Edited October 22, 2018 by TheTruthHurts
Helpmenow Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fadingpain said: You going anywhere? The fans will hang with them. Half of them (at the games) are there to get drunk and just looking for something to do anyway. I'm not sure the actual quality of football is that important with such fans. I hardly watch anymore. Waiting for the hammer on beane and McDermott. Glad I got witness the glory years. Edited October 22, 2018 by Helpmenow
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