SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/23/2018 at 6:04 PM, billsfan89 said: I honestly would like to see Tyrod get traded to Jacksonville. Bortles stinks and he is holding the team back with his turnovers and general bad play. Tyrod would protect the ball and make just enough plays with his legs to buy the offense some first downs. Basically Tyrod would be a cheap way to improve their QB play. Right now Bortles doesn't allow that team to play the football that makes them successful. Granted their defense hasn't been crushing it either but at least a risk averse QB with the ability to move the chains with his legs might just be "good enough" for the Jags to make a run at the playoffs if their defense can get on track. A strategy defenses use against Tyrod and Blake ...... Make them a QB. As we saw in the playoff game ...... Blake out shined Tyrod. case closed. On 10/23/2018 at 11:25 PM, John from Riverside said: Tyrod would make this OL look better then it is....but ultimately defenses would figure out how to play him and continue to stifle the offense and frustrate fans...... It was always gonna get worse before it got better and most knew that...... John, The O Line has lost talent. We can all agree on that. 5 games 21 sacks 4.2 spg 14 games 46 sacks 3.2 spg There really isn't that much of a difference.
John from Riverside Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 7 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Not to mention all of the other missed opportunities he left on the field during the season. Carolina, Cincinnati, and the New England games also come to mind. TT was able to pull it together twice against the Dolphins, I suppose. Here's a fun game -- name Tyrod's "signature" throw from last year. There isn't one. When the decision was made, it was unlikely that NP was going to be worse than that. Now, we all know that he managed to beat the odds and found a way to pull it off. Also, how would people who "hardly follow" the Bills "just know" anything at all about their back-up QB? This is false, false, false. Mobile QBs who take forever to read the defense and throw the football almost always make O-lines look far worse than they really are. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact. 1. Holding on to the ball too long gives extra time to the pass rush. The problem there should be self-explanatory. 2. Their inclination to move around and scramble means that lineman have no idea where the QB is going to be or go on any given play. This causes issues because the oncoming pass rush CAN see the QB and can react accordingly, meaning they have an advantage over the O-line. This results in lots of sacks and holding penalties. So, this idea that TT would somehow improve the pass protection is not even close to reality. Also, Josh Allen has more than proven to be every bit the "running threat" that Tyrod was. When you have a qb that has a propensity to not sit in the pocket and throw defenses focus more on keeping them in the pocket the o line protection is not actually better I do think defenses play them differently
Nelius Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope. This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks. 1
dave mcbride Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 9 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Not to mention all of the other missed opportunities he left on the field during the season. Carolina, Cincinnati, and the New England games also come to mind. TT was able to pull it together twice against the Dolphins, I suppose. Here's a fun game -- name Tyrod's "signature" throw from last year. There isn't one. When the decision was made, it was unlikely that NP was going to be worse than that. Now, we all know that he managed to beat the odds and found a way to pull it off. Also, how would people who "hardly follow" the Bills "just know" anything at all about their back-up QB? False. He made a huge deep throw against TB late that effectively helped them win the game. The throw to a stumbling Zay Jones (who failed at his route too) against Carolina was a perfect read and throw too. Too bad the receiver messed it up. It would have been a game winner.
billsfan89 Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: A strategy defenses use against Turod and Blake ...... Make them a QB. As we saw in the playoff game ...... Blake out shined Tuhrod. case closed. Jacksonville could have a good enough defense where a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and makes some plays with his legs could be a winning formula. Tyrod avoids turnovers and makes plays with his legs. In 2007 when the Jags went 11-5 they had David Gerrad who basically just managed games and let a great defense handle things. Blake turns the ball over and doesn't really use his legs that great even though he has some mobility. If I am the Jags I toss The Browns a 4th for Tyrod, you can ***** on Tyrod all you want to but he was a competent QB who if asked to manage a game could be successful. 1 hour ago, Nelius said: Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope. This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks. Personally I don't know how good or bad Daboll is because I don't know if there is any scheme that can get much out of the current offensive group. My best guess is to give Daboll the rest of the season to see if he improves but I would not be shocked or disappointed to see him gone in the off-season. 7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Forgot about the playoff game already? Forgot about the benching after 3 games already ? Tyrod is done, he ain’t helping any NFL team I don't think there are many teams Tyrod would help but Jacksonville might be the one team where Tyrod would represent and upgrade (Because of how bad Bortles is) and Tyrod's conservative game would fit with how the team plays (Avoid Turnovers, let the defense and the running game win the game, maybe Tyrod makes a few plays with his legs.) I think Tyrod ventures off into being a high end backup or a starter for a team with a rookie the rest of his career but if there was one team that might actually benefit from kicking the tires on him it would be the Jags.
Bing Bong Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Come on with that. Did JA set the bar with his worst game? The bar was Tyrod's season to date. We yanked after one particularly bad game and several mediocre games. I don't feel comfortable yanking a mediocre Quarterback on a clearly ****y offense and for a 5th round rookie against a monster pass rush in the playoff hunt. You're fine with playing the 10% odds (or whatever you felt it to be) that dude is better, I'm not.. agree to disagree there I guess. But it's ultimately who is the better Quarterback between the 2.. and McDermott HAD NO IDEA 7 WEEKS IN JUST HOW BAD PETERMAN WAS. From a fan perspective sure we can say maybe he should start we can't see that practice. A good coach should have known who the better quarterback is regardless of who had a poor game the week before. Like I can't think of one single thing Peterman is better at than Tyrod.. I would say the anticipation throws but Peterman is so freaking reckless with that I'd rather have a guy that didn't throw his first read with reckless abandon. A good coach would probably see that recklessness decision making if he was paying attention in practice, would think to himself "hmm good completion on a throw Tyrod is hesistant to make.. but was that telegraphed and would a defense blitzing take advantage of a reckless gunslinger who throws his last progression route to a terrible receiver when under pressure.. no matter what? Probably not a good idea" Edited October 24, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
ngbills Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 Which Tyrod do you prefer: Tyrod 1 28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD 18-30, 297 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT 27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD 29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD 21-38, 281 YD Tyrod 2 10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD 11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD 17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD 20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD 12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD 17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD 14-19, 195 YD, 1 TD Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0.
Stank_Nasty Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) i'm just patiently waiting for @xRUSHx to come barreling into this thread at mach speeds, then smearing crap all over the walls like a pissed off ape at the zoo. please don't let me down... wherever you are. Edited October 24, 2018 by Stank_Nasty
Gigs Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 5:00 PM, ChattanoogaBills said: No... no they dont deserve to be fired the first pair to break the drought ... Jauron , Rex and others got multiple years McDermott and co deserve longer It was a Whaley built team that broke the drought but even he was fired. The QB that led us there was traded away. They don’t know what they’re doing and it’s pretty bad to watch. This all reminds me of when Tim Murray ran the Sabres into the ground. The Pegulas should be well versed in reckless trading but here we are where you can’t just trade for young talent and let them develop somewhere hopefully. These trades directly affect the team’s performance.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Nelius said: Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope. This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks. Rookie Josh Allen, Nate pick 6 Peterman, Retired DA. #1 WR that plain out has played like ? What more do you expect? (Not saying Dabol is the answer)
twoandfourteen Posted October 24, 2018 Author Posted October 24, 2018 13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: You sure were wrong. Why would you think things couldn't get worse at QB than having a QB who was around the 20th to 22nd best in the league. There are 10 - 12 QBs worse than that every year, and those usually include the rookies who end up starting and plenty of other very young guys. Of course it was capable of being much much worse, and it was always likely to get worse for a year or two. That was the likelihood. We had a chance if McCarron had been good, but with their Whaley-inherited salary cap woes, they weren't going to get a more expensive vet, and the flier on McCarron didn't work out. That was too bad, but bad QB play this year .... the second year of a rebuild and the year we drafted a rookie well-known to need a ton of development ... was always likely to be worse. So, no, Beane and McDermott work for an owner who understands rebuilds. In the third and fourth years, their seats will indeed become hot if things don't look up. Not this year. The Pegulas get it. Nah. TT was in the 35-30 range, at best. There were easily 30 QBs that no team would have traded straight up for TT. 3 hours ago, ngbills said: Which Tyrod do you prefer: Tyrod 1 28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD 18-30, 297 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT 27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD 29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD 21-38, 281 YD Tyrod 2 10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD 11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD 17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD 20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD 12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD 17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD 14-19, 195 YD, 1 TD Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. Great job of illustrating how "garbage time" in losses can grossly exaggerate production.
BringBackOrton Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, ngbills said: Which Tyrod do you prefer: Tyrod 1 28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD 18-30, 297 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT 27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD 29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD 21-38, 281 YD Tyrod 2 10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD 11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD 17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD 20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD 12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD 17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD 14-19, 195 YD, 1 TD Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. Imagine thinking throwing for 4000 yards is record breaking. In today’s NFL. Is there such thing as Tyrod Derangement Syndrome? 1
Thurman#1 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Nah. TT was in the 35-30 range, at best. There were easily 30 QBs that no team would have traded straight up for TT. Just because nobody would trade a rookie Goff or a rookie Wentz for Tyrod didn't mean Tyrod wasn't performing better that year. He was playing around 20th to 22nd best, probably. Which when that is your ceiling is just good enough to make sure that teams will constantly be trying to replace you. Yeah, there were a bunch more guys that teams hoped had the potential to become better than Tyrod. But around 20 - 22nd is probably how well you would rank his performance each year he was on the Bills, though the first seven games or so before teams got a bead on how to defend him he looked like he might really be something. 22 hours ago, mannc said: Who do you want to “bring in the talent” (as if you can just go down to the corner store and pick up a bag of “talent”), the guys who have methodically stripped the franchise of it? It's called a rebuild. Rebuilds involve serious pain. It's part of the deal, unfortunately, especially rebuilds where the last GM left the team in a bad cap situation. And it's not like the team they inherited was any better than sub-mediocre. So yes, the guys who have started the rebuild should get to finish it. There are a few exceptions, such as if they totally lose the locker room or start making visibly dumb decisions and statements ala Rexy, but none of that has happened yet. At some point they will have no excuses, they will have to stand or fall by their record. A year and a half into a near-complete rebuild is not that time. Horrible pain at that time is built into the process. Edited October 25, 2018 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Come on with that. Did JA set the bar with his worst game? The bar was Tyrod's season to date. We yanked after one particularly bad game and several mediocre games. I don't feel comfortable yanking a mediocre Quarterback on a clearly ****y offense and for a 5th round rookie against a monster pass rush in the playoff hunt. You're fine with playing the 10% odds (or whatever you felt it to be) that dude is better, I'm not.. agree to disagree there I guess. But it's ultimately who is the better Quarterback between the 2.. and McDermott HAD NO IDEA 7 WEEKS IN JUST HOW BAD PETERMAN WAS. From a fan perspective sure we can say maybe he should start we can't see that practice. A good coach should have known who the better quarterback is regardless of who had a poor game the week before. Like I can't think of one single thing Peterman is better at than Tyrod.. I would say the anticipation throws but Peterman is so freaking reckless with that I'd rather have a guy that didn't throw his first read with reckless abandon. A good coach would probably see that recklessness decision making if he was paying attention in practice, would think to himself "hmm good completion on a throw Tyrod is hesistant to make.. but was that telegraphed and would a defense blitzing take advantage of a reckless gunslinger who throws his last progression route to a terrible receiver when under pressure.. no matter what? Probably not a good idea" If you could perfectly tell how good a rookie QB is from only watching him in practice, life would be a whole ton easier. You often can't. If it wasn't sometimes quite difficult to tell what kind of guy you have, the Chargers would never have drafted Phillip Rivers after three years of seeing Brees in practice and two years of seeing him in games. Your argument that they should have known is simply not reasonable. Sometimes guys who look quite good in practice aren't good in games and sometimes they are. That's life in football. We knew Tyrod wasn't good enough to be with us the next year by then. We knew it was a good year to draft a QB the next year. We knew the team wasn't particularly good, as they were 5-4 against a not very good schedule (5-11 Jets, 11-5 Panthers who had been in a slump and were 5-4 at the time, 5-11 Broncos, 10-6 Falcons who had been in a slump and lost Julio and were 4-4 at that point, 7-9 Bengals, 5-11 Bucs, 6-10 Raiders and 5-11 Jets again) and we were likely going to be 5-5 regardless of who played QB against the Saints. And we obviously didn't know what we had with Peterman. It certainly didn't turn out well. But that doesn't mean taking the risk was indefensible. It wasn't. Edited October 25, 2018 by Thurman#1
mannc Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Just because nobody would trade a rookie Goff or a rookie Wentz for Tyrod didn't mean Tyrod wasn't performing better that year. He was playing around 20th to 22nd best, probably. Which when that is your ceiling is just good enough to make sure that teams will constantly be trying to replace you. Yeah, there were a bunch more guys that teams hoped had the potential to become better than Tyrod. But around 20 - 22nd is probably how well you would rank his performance each year he was on the Bills, though the first seven games or so before teams got a bead on how to defend him he looked like he might really be something. It's called a rebuild. Rebuilds involve serious pain. It's part of the deal, unfortunately, especially rebuilds where the last GM left the team in a bad cap situation. And it's not like the team they inherited was any better than sub-mediocre. So yes, the guys who have started the rebuild should get to finish it. There are a few exceptions, such as if they totally lose the locker room or start making visibly dumb decisions and statements ala Rexy, but none of that has happened yet. At some point they will have no excuses, they will have to stand or fall by their record. A year and a half into a near-complete rebuild is not that time. Horrible pain at that time is built into the process. You are repeating a lot of myths. The Bills were not “sub-mediocre” when McBeane arrived on the scene. Yes, Rex was an awful coach, but they were a .500 team, with a competent offense. NFL teams make the leap from .500 to Super Bowl contender all the time without tearing everything down and starting over. There was no need for a complete, tear-it-down rebuild and, to my knowledge, neither McDermott nor McBeane ever said any such thing was necessary. And I’m pretty sure neither said that as part of the rebuild the team might field the worst offense in the history of the league for a season or two. Finally, the Bills weren’t in “cap jail” until McBeane put them there by purging all of the former regime’s players. And I think there is a very real risk the they will lose the locker room at the rate they are going. Some of the guys on defense are already making business decisions out there. If we see a lot more Indy-like performances this year, McDermott’s seat will get very hot indeed.
The_Dude Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 3:56 PM, twoandfourteen said: Last year, I said that the passing offense couldn't get worse than it was under Tyrod. Boy was I wrong. I honestly didn't think it was really possible for a collection of professional coaches & players to perform as poorly on offense as they have this season. Beane & McDermott deserve to be fired at the end of this season. You weren't wrong about Tyrod. Just because Beane and McDermott are awful at evaluating offense doesnt make you wrong on Taylor. Taylor is a worthless starting QB. Hes a decent backup, if you have a super bowl team with a good defense.
fridge Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 22 hours ago, ngbills said: Which Tyrod do you prefer: Tyrod 1 28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD 18-30, 297 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT 27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT 26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD 29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD 21-38, 281 YD Tyrod 2 10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD 11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD 17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD 20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD 12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD 17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD 14-19, 195 YD, 1 TD Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. Are the stats for Tyrod 1 supposed to be incredible? Only in Buffalo do those stats look like they break records. At least 10 teams get that production week in and week out.
ngbills Posted October 25, 2018 Posted October 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, fridge said: Are the stats for Tyrod 1 supposed to be incredible? Only in Buffalo do those stats look like they break records. At least 10 teams get that production week in and week out. Try again. That would have led the league in passing yards. Brady avg 286 last season and led the league.
Bfanlc Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 5:42 AM, mannc said: Who do you want to “bring in the talent” (as if you can just go down to the corner store and pick up a bag of “talent”), the guys who have methodically stripped the franchise of it? I'm not talking about right now. I'm talking about FA and drafts. Next year is the year for improvement. And what I mean by improvement is gradual not superbowl winning improvement. Something like a 8-8 to 9-7 record. If we see no improvement, another dumbest ever trade, and a losing record it would be time for a change.
mannc Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Bfanlc said: I'm not talking about right now. I'm talking about FA and drafts. Next year is the year for improvement. And what I mean by improvement is gradual not superbowl winning improvement. Something like a 8-8 to 9-7 record. If we see no improvement, another dumbest ever trade, and a losing record it would be time for a change. 8-8 or 9-7 territory is where we were under Rex Ryan. Why would it be desirable to tear down and rebuild in order to get back to where you started?
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