Tiberius Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Troops are still down there doing nothing. Cost is up to $75 million to keep these people away from friends and family. All for a political stunt that failed. Shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 An order to shoot poor people? Trump cultists must be orgasmic over this order, no wonder the fight to get it illegally done. The grown ups, such as they are, know that if someone is shot, jail time awaits those who gave this order. President Donald Trump this week presided over an explosive meeting on a new Cabinet order granting the troops deployed at the southern border the right to use lethal force to defend border patrol agents. Several White House aides and external advisers who have supported the president’s hawkish immigration agenda attended the Monday meeting, which devolved into a melee pitting two of Trump’s embattled aides, White House chief of staff John Kelly and Department of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen, against other attendees, according to three people briefed on the exchange. Kelly and Nielsen argued against signing the declaration, which granted the military broad authority at the border, telling the president that the move was beyond his constitutional powers. They were vocally opposed by, among others, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller; Chris Crane, president of the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council; and Brandon Judd, president of the border patrol union. Also present was Vice President Mike Pence, who did not take a stand on the issue, according to one of the people briefed on the debate. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/22/kelly-nielsen-debate-border-troops-1012547 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: An order to shoot poor people? Trump cultists must be orgasmic over this order, no wonder the fight to get it illegally done. The grown ups, such as they are, know that if someone is shot, jail time awaits those who gave this order. President Donald Trump this week presided over an explosive meeting on a new Cabinet order granting the troops deployed at the southern border the right to use lethal force to defend border patrol agents. Several White House aides and external advisers who have supported the president’s hawkish immigration agenda attended the Monday meeting, which devolved into a melee pitting two of Trump’s embattled aides, White House chief of staff John Kelly and Department of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen, against other attendees, according to three people briefed on the exchange. Kelly and Nielsen argued against signing the declaration, which granted the military broad authority at the border, telling the president that the move was beyond his constitutional powers. They were vocally opposed by, among others, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller; Chris Crane, president of the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council; and Brandon Judd, president of the border patrol union. Also present was Vice President Mike Pence, who did not take a stand on the issue, according to one of the people briefed on the debate. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/22/kelly-nielsen-debate-border-troops-1012547 Your true colors and ignorance are showing.... So if illegals attack with force BP Agents even to threaten their very lives, you side with the illegals over the AMERICAN BP Agents.... Gotcha.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/20/2018 at 12:00 PM, leonbus23 said: I realized you asked this a month ago, but I just noticed the thread. First of all, I live about 15 minutes from Tijuana and do work with three groups (Border Angels, SOLACE, and Desert Eagles), which provide various types of support for migrant workers. I have traveled a lot along the California and Arizona border to collect data (formally and informally) about this situation. If you are interested in knowing about migration, travel to Ajo or Arivaca, Arizona and talk to the Border Patrol and long time residents. Finally, just to interject a quick opinion, the coverage of this issue from both liberal and conservative media is inaccurate, propagandist, and sensationalized, to say the least. To answer your question: 1. The groups of migrants who travel together NEVER exceeds 50-75 people. 2. These small groups are generally disorganized. So, the media image of an organized group of migrants carrying a flag, etc. is complete and total misinformation. 3. This has been happening for decades. This is nothing new or unprecedented. 4. Simply put, migrants from Central America and Mexico have been regularly migrating to the US since the early 20th century, but more specifically since, neoliberal economics became powerful in the 1980s. 5. There are two ways to enter the US from Latin America. 1) Through the desert. 2) By getting asylum. The five other legal ways, besides asylum, are simply impossible for 99.9% of migrants. So, asylum is the ONLY LEGAL WAY. 6. Those who decide to go to a border crossing seek asylum. With that background, to answer finally answer your question: Migrants generally save up money, usually about $2000-3000 and follow established routes led by coyotes (human smugglers or traffickers). Most of the money is paid to the coyotes, who guide the migrants to established "safe houses" for food, etc. and mainly to the train route through Mexico, to the border and through the desert. So, the food and water is paid for by the migrants. There are also church groups and other charity groups that provide food and beds to migrants along the path. Those who go through the desert much be far more secretive and rely on the coyotes (who are generally awful people that exploit the migrants). Whereas the groups seeking asylum can be more overt about movement, since they attempt to cross legally. It is a long and treacherous journey, particularly for those who plan to cross the desert. What the media misses or distorts: 1. The media never discusses who benefits most from migrant labor. Corporations in meat, agriculture and construction profit tremendously because of undocumented labor. Tyson chicken even closed its plants on the day that undocumented workers organized to stay home from work. Obviously, this major savings in labor benefits ordinary consumers. But these giant multinationals benefit the most. 2. US neocolonialism and military involvement in Central America. This is one of the direct reasons why migrants leave Central America. The US has basically taken their resources over the past two centuries and transformed their economies, and cultures from subsistence farming to single crop farming and from mainly rural dwellers to city factory workers. Every attempt to nationalize or transform their economies to benefit the nation and its people have met US military or economic interference. Thus, Guatemala, Salvador, Nicaragua, and Honduras, (not to mention Panama), have no real autonomy over their own economy. The US starved these nations and now the only real option is to head North. 3. The guns and drugs. The US supplies the guns to the drug cartels and gangs in Central America and Mexico. We manufacture about 13,000,000 guns a year and 3/4 of the guns used in the drug wars are US weapons. We are the consumers of the drugs manufactured in these nations. Since the US starved out this population and made opportunities for legal and safe labor almost impossible, people survive through the black market economy. Hence, people seek asylum and work in the US because the US is responsible for the guns and drugs. 4. Since 9/11, the US created stricter enforcement of entering the country legally and illegally. It may surprise many that deportations increased tremendously during the Obama administration and the presence of border patrol increased tremendously during the Obama admin. It seems that the Liberal media wants to keep this quiet to safeguard Obama's reputation and the Conservative media keeps this quiet to attach Obama to "open boarders". Also, since 2005, more Mexicans leave the US then enter. Anyway, I thought I would provide this information to you. I urge people who want to actually know about this issue to come to the border region and talk to the people and the Border Patrol. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/31/u-s-immigrant-deportations-declined-in-2014-but-remain-near-record-high/ https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/deportation-dilemma-reconciling-tough-humane-enforcement http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/ Thx for the informed post. I’d be willing to bet that anyone posting in this thread with an agenda won’t dare touch your points. Good to know there are still ppl out there willing to seek out their own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Thurmal34 said: Thx for the informed post. I’d be willing to bet that anyone posting in this thread with an agenda won’t dare touch your points. Good to know there are still ppl out there willing to seek out their own facts. That is a great post. Illegal % living in the US has been in decline for a while. Doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, and one we need to try to solve, but it’s overblown. Why? Because it scares certain people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: That is a great post. Illegal % living in the US has been in decline for a while. Doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, and one we need to try to solve, but it’s overblown. Why? Because it scares certain people. Nothing scary here: https://www.ranker.com/list/mara-salvatrucha-facts-and-stories/katia-kleyman “Kill, rape, control.” That's the motto for Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, a transnational criminal organization dubbed “the most dangerous gang in the world.” The gang formed in the ‘80s and has its roots in the fertile gang soil of Los Angeles. MS-13 is predominantly made up of Salvadoran immigrants who sought refuge in the United States during the Salvadoran Civil War, and is known for aggressive crimes throughout Central and North America. Members prefer machetes and knives to guns, as such weapons make a kill more personal and agonizing. Members of Mara Salvatrucha are best known for their tattooed faces. From small-time origins, the MS-13 gang has grown into an international threat. The gang even has complete control of an El Savador prison, a place where guards are too terrified to enter. These Mara Salvatrucha facts and horror stories may surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: That is a great post. Illegal % living in the US has been in decline for a while. Doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, and one we need to try to solve, but it’s overblown. Why? Because it scares certain people. Fear, baby. Nothing motivates insecure old white guys more than an old, fat, weak, coward telling them to watch out for brown people! Edited November 23, 2018 by Thurmal34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Asylum seekers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Asylum seekers: Hey look, more fear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, Thurmal34 said: Fear, baby. Nothing motivates insecure old white guys more than an old, fat, weak, coward telling them to watch out for brown people! I thought the white guys were too busy playing Red Dead Redemption. Why are you so racist ? 1 minute ago, Thurmal34 said: Hey look, more fear! You would run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 11:19 AM, Chef Jim said: Cry me a ***** river.......... Laughing at human suffering? That's why you are a Conservative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Thurmal34 said: Fear, baby. Nothing motivates insecure old white guys more than an old, fat, weak, coward telling them to watch out for brown people! Hey look, another racist post by a POS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Laughing at human suffering? That's why you are a Conservative So, you don't laugh until they get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: So, you don't laugh until they get killed. You and your political leaders are completely bankrupt of ideas. Just nothing. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You and your political leaders are completely bankrupt of ideas. Just nothing. Zero. What's your thoughts about sending the Federal Reserve to the border to help secure it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 This is something we've discussed previously, it's a strategy that will be deployed by the cartels to get their most valuable goods through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Sooooo not touching American soil means the 9th circus can't force the US to grant the invaders asylum. And, after all, Mexico did grant them asylum. Now, let's see how this shakes out. US in deal with Mexico over asylum seekers: report The US has reached a deal with its southern neighbor for asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while their claims are assessed, The Washington Post reported Saturday, a move cautiously welcomed by some refugees currently at the border. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Sooooo not touching American soil means the 9th circus can't force the US to grant the invaders asylum. And, after all, Mexico did grant them asylum. Now, let's see how this shakes out. US in deal with Mexico over asylum seekers: report The US has reached a deal with its southern neighbor for asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while their claims are assessed, The Washington Post reported Saturday, a move cautiously welcomed by some refugees currently at the border. i read the WP article earlier. it didn't contain the Yahoo precognitive item though... Mexico's incoming interior minister Olga Sanchez Cordero was quoted by the Post as confirming the agreement during an interview with the newspaper, but on Sunday her office issued a statement denying any deal. emphasis mine lol Edited November 24, 2018 by Foxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Foxx said: i read the WP article earlier. it didn't contain the Yahoo precognitive item though... Mexico's incoming interior minister Olga Sanchez Cordero was quoted by the Post as confirming the agreement during an interview with the newspaper, but on Sunday her office issued a statement denying any deal. emphasis mine lol They have a time machine? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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