Chalkie Gerzowski Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 But we can't stop now! We're just one tax increase away from being an economic superpower! Also, the county should hire extra workers to sit in between the guy who drives the snow plow and the guy who rides shotgun in the snow plow - it'd give the whole job a 'road trip' flavor that would make their work more enjoyable. 283844[/snapback] Put the 3rd guy on top of the plow, in a swivel lawn chair......with a 6 pack of Natural Light.err......a bucket of Rolling Rocks ala Mulligans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Way more than taxes though.....unfunded mandates.....Medicaid costs through the roof. What company would move there with the National Fool heat/utility rates through another roof? Add in a general decline in young/high tech skilled workers.....eventually you will have a bunch of homeless people, single mothers with 3 jobs and poor retirees. An area with a disdain for private enterprise, attempting to institute a Politburo to run the entire operation. You guys are DOOOOOOOMED......what is the debt up to now? 106 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 That argument has only huge flaw: Many of the MOST prosperous cities in America have high tax rates. So it's obvious that taxes alone do not affect a regions economy. The biggest reason, I think, for Buffalo malaise is bad government. No business would want to locate in a city run like Buffalo. Again, it's not just taxes, it's quality of life: Schools, hospitals, servcies, opportunities. The only way for Buffalo to survive now is to disband the city government, merge with the county, and put together some too-good-to-be-true incentive packages to lure jobs. Buffalo still has some good qualities, and deals that could draw in adventurous investors, but civic leaders need to sacrifice their own interests for the good of the citizens they supposedly serve. PTR 283851[/snapback] I agree totally that Buffalo city government is bad, but the major flaw in your proposal is that all current signs point to the County government that you would merge it with believe it or nor is even worse. It is quite amazing that the County government under Giambra inherited massive surpluses (spurred by the tax payments of NYC brokerage firms and residents who profitted massively during the financial boom of the 90) and have instead turned that into a pool of red ink as far as the eye can see with the help of a county government operated by having a voting majority in the legislature the last 3+ years and a comptroller from his own party who was asleep at the switch (or focusing on running an losing for higher office) who seemed to control very little in terms of the budget. Taxes are part of the issue certainly, but this government specialized in lowering taxes and that coincided with a massive economic downturn so the conventional wisdom that tax rates and economic prosperity are inversly proportional at least must be reasonably questioned. Actually, while I think you want to keep taxes as low as you can, the bigger issue here is that management is so poor and anti-tax forces focus so hard on keeping the number low they do not focus adequately on the bigger issue that the spending side needs to be based in statements of clear goals, evaluation of whether those goals are met and accountabilility for those in charge. County government seems to be making the same mistakes of our federal government in that: 1. The goals they espouse are politiclly palatable (I'm for good instead of evil, beat the terrorists, make government smarter, am I to take from this that the opponents of the current president and country exec are openly in favor of evil, are for the terrorists and want government to be stupid?) Perhaps these leaders simply mean that the opponents hearts do not aspire for stupid goals but a measure of their specific plans will get us there. However, as both are second termers one can measure the correctness of their specific plans and despite their re-election the budget mess which happened on Giambra's watch is unprecedented in its size and the moving taret of he Admins reasons for going to war have been because their rationals such as WMD have been completely wrong even if the outcome of getting rid of Saddam is laudable (Osana Bin Who?) 2. The application of actions to reach those goals has been miserable from the country deficit to Paul Wolfowitz being wrong on the number of troops needed to pacify Iraq coinciding with the unexpected deaths of 1500+ troops after the major fighting ended and then he gets promoted to the World Bank head and a bi-partisan commission is about to exonerate politics as the reason for a massive intelligence falure abnd instead blame department leaders like George Tenet for the snafus and he get held accountable by being honored with the highest civilian award. the Medal of Freedom we can give. 3, This last point goes to the fact that responsiblity and accountability is out in these regimes. A hand-picked commission recommended that Giambra get a 40% raise for his work. Gp figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 According to this article, NYS has the highest state and local tax burden in the entire fricken' country. When combined with federal taxes, only Connecticut ranks higher: A NYS resident hands over 32 percent of his/her income to the bureaucracy. http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/...special=0502tax 283823[/snapback] Good thing I moved from New York State to Connecticut! I wonder if they take into consideration that, in CT, you pay local taxes on your vehicles! I pay nearly as much tax on my two-year old SUV as I do on my house back in Elmira. A long time ago, I read a fascinating article about how the average American pays more cumulative taxes than the pre-Revolution colonists paid to the King! Of course, it was burdensome taxes - without representation - that sparked the Revolution in the first place. At least today we supposedly have representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Yet New York City has had one of the more dynamic urban economies in recent US history despite the fact that it's tax burden is higher than Buffalo's. It's not all taxes and government, you know. Buffalo's problems are a lot deeper than that -- declining population since the mid-1950s, no immigration to the city, reliance on an outmoded industrial base, the fact that it's not a corporate headquarter city, etc. etc. 284003[/snapback] Uh, dude, you do know that the ONLY reason NYC shows a profit is Wall Street and exorbitant real estate prices, right? In fact, in the 70s, NYC almost went under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 That argument has only huge flaw: Many of the MOST prosperous cities in America have high tax rates. So it's obvious that taxes alone do not affect a regions economy. The biggest reason, I think, for Buffalo malaise is bad government. No business would want to locate in a city run like Buffalo. Again, it's not just taxes, it's quality of life: Schools, hospitals, servcies, opportunities. The only way for Buffalo to survive now is to disband the city government, merge with the county, and put together some too-good-to-be-true incentive packages to lure jobs. Buffalo still has some good qualities, and deals that could draw in adventurous investors, but civic leaders need to sacrifice their own interests for the good of the citizens they supposedly serve. PTR 283851[/snapback] A lot of major American cities have high tax rates, but at least they usually have wages that are commensurate to the cost of living. In Western New York they have the worst of both worlds - high taxes and low wages for the average blue collar worker. Anyone employed outside of a government position or the medical profession has little security. They have a whole lot more opportunity for career growth in another market. I wonder what percentage of college graduates from UB, Buff State, Niagara, Canisius, etc., make WNY their permanent home following graduation. I'll bet it's less than 50% for graduates seeking jobs outside of of government and medicine. I'd be surprised if after 5 years, there are more than 25% still remaining in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I dont understand that with Connecticut. We have Greenwich, Pfeizer, General Electric, United Technologys, Colt, Yale tons of very affluent towns- how the hell is Connecticut in so much debt? How many cottages did Rowland steal? I get nothing for my state taxes. I pay sales tax. I pay town tax. I pay state tax. The roads suck in CT. The highway should be 4 lanes at least-its 2 lanes. What the hell is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I dont understand that with Connecticut. We have Greenwich, Pfeizer, General Electric, United Technologys, Colt, Yale tons of very affluent towns- how the hell is Connecticut in so much debt? How many cottages did Rowland steal? I get nothing for my state taxes. I pay sales tax. I pay town tax. I pay state tax. The roads suck in CT. The highway should be 4 lanes at least-its 2 lanes. What the hell is going on? 284247[/snapback] Welcome to wasteful bureaucracy. Don't worry. They will probably raise taxes to fix the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Don't forget NY has some of the most lenient laws regarding who qualifies for gov't assistance. Discounting the allure of opportunity in the Big Apple, why do think there are so many immigrants not only in NYC, but in all of NYS. I'm all for helping people get a leg up, but the system is severely abused and trust me when I say that most arrive knowing how to abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Uh, dude, you do know that the ONLY reason NYC shows a profit is Wall Street and exorbitant real estate prices, right? In fact, in the 70s, NYC almost went under. 284168[/snapback] uh, dude, the reason the nyc metro area has done so well in recent times is that they have a dense agglomeration of the postindustrial industries that have succeeded in recent times, from law, finance, insurance, banking, and real estate to higher ed (nyu, columbia, and rutgers along with nearby institutions like princeton, stonybrook, and yale) and the medical/pharmaceutical industries. there are a lot of reasons ny has done well, and in any event high real estate prices are a function of the desirability of a locale, not necessarily an economic engine in and of itself. ny is unique, of course - like london and tokyo, they are the central command positions of the global economy. regardless, nyc is in great shape relatively speaking and has basically doled out far more in taxes to WNY than it has received in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Don't forget NY has some of the most lenient laws regarding who qualifies for gov't assistance. Discounting the allure of opportunity in the Big Apple, why do think there are so many immigrants not only in NYC, but in all of NYS. I'm all for helping people get a leg up, but the system is severely abused and trust me when I say that most arrive knowing how to abuse it. 284325[/snapback] metro areas that have been most open to immigrants in the past 20 years are the ones that are most dynamic -- they're the ones who start the small businesses that increase the density of economic growth in neighborhoods. as my wife says, buffalo has had essentially no immigration in recent times despite the fact that the immigrant song is perhaps the most popular song on the radio there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 metro areas that have been most open to immigrants in the past 20 years are the ones that are most dynamic -- they're the ones who start the small businesses that increase the density of economic growth in neighborhoods. as my wife says, buffalo has had essentially no immigration in recent times despite the fact that the immigrant song is perhaps the most popular song on the radio there! 284343[/snapback] I'll agree with you that larger cities offer more opportunity, but that wasn't my point. People can arrive in in this country and can immediately begin collecting welfare in NYS. Families even send there daughters back to their original countries to marry men in order to get them into this one and on the gravy train. And there is a solid base of recent immigrants in the Buffalo area. (cough Lackawanna cough) Look, I don't want to give the impression that I'm anti-immigration...I'm not. My original point is NYS, and WNY in particular has got to take care of its own, and if you want to trim some excess, stop handing it out to people who have never contributed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losman-McGahee-Evans Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 No wonder Pataki is getting CREAMED in polls vs Spitzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 No wonder Pataki is getting CREAMED in polls vs Spitzer. 284646[/snapback] Right, once he attains office it won't be more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Right, once he attains office it won't be more of the same. 284731[/snapback] Nah, Spitzer will change his spots from scumbag politico to champion of the little guy once he takes office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 No wonder Pataki is getting CREAMED in polls vs Spitzer. 284646[/snapback] Yes, I think we should expect that Spitzer will be campaigning on tax cuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I wonder what percentage of college graduates from UB, Buff State, Niagara, Canisius, etc., make WNY their permanent home following graduation. I'll bet it's less than 50% for graduates seeking jobs outside of of government and medicine.I'd be surprised if after 5 years, there are more than 25% still remaining in the area. 284198[/snapback] my bags are already packed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I wonder what percentage of college graduates from UB, Buff State, Niagara, Canisius, etc., make WNY their permanent home following graduation. I'll bet it's less than 50% for graduates seeking jobs outside of of government and medicine.I'd be surprised if after 5 years, there are more than 25% still remaining in the area. 284198[/snapback] The group I hung out with in HS (St Francis) had eight guys. We all have Bachelor degrees from various NY schools. Three of us have Masters and two have PhD's. Two still live in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 The group I hung out with in HS (St Francis) had eight guys. What a great school. I regret that I only attended it two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 What a great school. I regret that I only attended it two years. 286556[/snapback] Had it not been for my brother getting kicked out for beaating the sh&t out of one of the priests for trying to put him under his cape, I may have went there. They said no more erynthered's please........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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