Why the handling of the QBs wouldn't have changed anything

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Yeah, because all backup QBs are the same.

 

Nasty Nate = Nick Foles

 

Really?

Let's try reading once again.   The guys that were available in March 2018.  The guys we could have chosen. Other than maybe Bridgewater they were all pretty much the same guy.

 

Foles did well.  Have to give him credit.  But that's extraordinarily rare.

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Let's try reading once again.   The guys that were available in March 2018.  The guys we could have chosen. Other than maybe Bridgewater they were all pretty much the same guy.

 

Foles did well.  Have to give him credit.  But that's extraordinarily rare.

They may all be the same but they would all be an upgrade over what the Bills have been trotting out at QB. I am sure most would easily be able to throw for more yards then what the Bills average now. 

[oldmanfan]

So let's just look at this again:

 

1.  All last year people screamed about how you can't win without a QB, when are the Bills ever going to draft their WB, TT will never be a guy that wins.

 

2.  Don't resign TT, draft Allen as their guy if the future.  What song is sung now, at least by some?  Should have kept TtT, why did we draft Allen.

 

3.  Fast forward to post-draft.  We all agree, I think, they should have brought a guy to mentor Allen.  Bring in a guy to take snaps and let Allen learn, acknowledge this year may not work. 

 

4.  They bring a guy in.  McCarron.  But he gets outplayed by Peterman.  Again, we all agree that they should have brought a guy in. But they didn't. And now the screams are that we should have kept and played a guy that got beat out in camp, because ..... well, I'm not sure.

 

5.  Peterman wets the bed.  Now Allen gets his shot; folks clamoring for him to play and learn on the job knowing they'll be mistakes made, take about one millisecond to decide Allen isn't good enough because he isn't the second coming of Dan Merino his rookie year.  They scream that we have to get another guy in here.

 

6.  Anderson is brought in.  Now the screams are why Anderson, as if there was some magical option out there.  We complain the season is over, as if the next Foles was just sitting around waiting.  And ignore that most understood this might be a step back from last year.

 

Everyone here agrees they should have brought a vet in sooner, either in March instead of  McCarron or when he got cut.  The rest?  I'm not sure a comedy writer on his best day could write that script.

 

11 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They may all be the same but they would all be an upgrade over what the Bills have been trotting out at QB. I am sure most would easily be able to throw for more yards then what the Bills average now. 

See above

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Let's try reading once again.   The guys that were available in March 2018.  The guys we could have chosen. Other than maybe Bridgewater they were all pretty much the same guy.

 

Foles did well.  Have to give him credit.  But that's extraordinarily rare.

..whether or not it is true, it is purported AJ wanted to start.....can you blame him?....allegedly, he did not want to mentor...can you blame him again?....McDermott experienced two schools of thought with drafted/rook QB.....Eagles with his idol Andy at the helm with the McNabb pick who was groomed by sitting for a year....OR.....in Carolina where Cam was penciled in from day one....do we know McDermott's preference?.....have not seen anything...so now we should expect that McCarron wanted a trade and went to the Raiders because Chuckie gave him a "guaranteed to start" clause?....McBeane woefully underestimated the readiness of Peterman, with the suspect meteoric rise from a drafted 5th to a starter in one year and dumped McCarron for a coveted 5th....

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

..whether or not it is true, it is purported AJ wanted to start.....can you blame him?....allegedly, he did not want to mentor...can you blame him again?....McDermott experienced two schools of thought with drafted/rook QB.....Eagles with his idol Andy at the helm with the McNabb pick who was groomed by sitting for a year....OR.....in Carolina where Cam was penciled in from day one....do we know McDermott's preference?.....have not seen anything...so now we should expect that McCarron wanted a trade and went to the Raiders because Chuckie gave him a "guaranteed to start" clause?....McBeane woefully underestimated the readiness of Peterman, with the suspect meteoric rise from a drafted 5th to a starter in one year and dumped McCarron for a coveted 5th....

My old man partner, I don't blame McCarron at all for wanting to start.  I think we all assumed he would.  But he got beat out by Peterman; any objective look would say that happened this summer.

 

If Peterman did not throw up on himself none of those threads exist.  Why he keeps doing that is mind boggling.

[Luka]

The premise of this thread is unbelievably off base. Bringing in your #1 pick and treating him as the starter from day one would have paid dividens. It's all about reps. Splitting reps with AJ and Nate left Allen completely unprepared to start. Peterman should've been long gone after last year's performance. AJ should've stayed on as backup and got his chance to start if the wheels really came off for Allen. That's not even accounting for guys like Henne, Stanton, Osewilier etc that are later in their careers and could've came in as a backup right from the get go instead of signing a guy like AJ that wanted to go somewhere under the false pretense that he is somehow starting material and just hasn't gotten his shot.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Luka

[Fadingpain]

10 hours ago, nucci said:

The facts are the QB situation is a mess and with offenses breaking records around the league, ours is one of the worst.....that's why I'm screaming. Disirregardless how they handled this....it's not really working out too well at this point

That is one hell of a nice word you invented there.

 

I like it.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Luka said:

The premise of this thread is unbelievably off base. Bringing in your #1 pick and treating him as the starter from day one would have paid dividens. It's all about reps. Splitting reps with AJ and Nate left Allen completely unprepared to start. Peterman should've been long gone after last year's performance. AJ should've stayed on as backup and got his chance to start if the wheels really came off for Allen.

They could have done that.  If they had though, would it have changed things so far this year?  That is all I'm saying.  I would have been OK with starting Allen from day 1 and all that would have done is give him 1.5 games more experience.  And the same record as we have now. And reliance on a backup when he got hurt, the quality of the backup being questionable regardless.

[Luka]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They could have done that.  If they had though, would it have changed things so far this year?  That is all I'm saying.  I would have been OK with starting Allen from day 1 and all that would have done is give him 1.5 games more experience.  And the same record as we have now. And reliance on a backup when he got hurt, the quality of the backup being questionable regardless.

 

That's a huge assumption. The guys that are most prepared had the most reps in college. It's been pointed out before that Mayfield had something like almost 3 times the reps as Allen in college. Darnold was up there too. So with a physical specimen like Allen, that you want to mold into a franchise QB, the only way to do that is reps, and lots of them.

On a side note, the other huge problem that is ongoing is expecting a veteran to come in and help Allen. That's the job of the coaching staff. If McDermott feels that Badoll and whoever the WR turned QB coach is, isn't able to effectively mentor Allen, he should probably find a coach that can, not expect the backup QB to do it. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Luka

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the Jets bailed on him pretty quickly.  just saying.  must be something wrong there.

The Jets front office knows what it's doing.  They leapfrogged us to trade up and get Darnold well before the draft that nobody saw coming.  They then sign Bridgewater and McCown because they value the position and displayed Bridgewater during the preseason as trade bait given Darnold was impressive enough to win the job.  It worked and they got a 3rd round pick and McCown is a solid veteran backup.  I hate the Jets, but I give them a lot of credit.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

My old man partner, I don't blame McCarron at all for wanting to start.  I think we all assumed he would.  But he got beat out by Peterman; any objective look would say that happened this summer.

 

If Peterman did not throw up on himself none of those threads exist.  Why he keeps doing that is mind boggling.

 

 

...perhaps a premature judgment when considering TC/pre-season being rubber bullets facing the proverbial "vanilla" versus "live ammo" in the "real deal"?......guy wilted like a wall flower........

[Jrb1979]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They could have done that.  If they had though, would it have changed things so far this year?  That is all I'm saying.  I would have been OK with starting Allen from day 1 and all that would have done is give him 1.5 games more experience.  And the same record as we have now. And reliance on a backup when he got hurt, the quality of the backup being questionable regardless.

I will say it again. PEOPLE AREN'T UPSET CAUSE OF THE RECORD of the team. They are upset with what the Bills call an NFL offense. The way the league is now any QB should easily pass for 150 yds or more no matter the talent. Thats why I said any of those other QB's that were available would have helped this offense. Sorry to say Allen is not ready. 

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I will say it again. PEOPLE AREN'T UPSET CAUSE OF THE RECORD of the team. They are upset with what the Bills call an NFL offense. The way the league is now any QB should easily pass for 150 yds or more no matter the talent. Thats why I said any of those other QB's that were available would have helped this offense. Sorry to say Allen is not ready. 

Well, we will see Sunday, won't we?  At least as far as passing yardage.  And is Allen "ready"?  Not completely.  And neither are the other rookie QBs.

 

As for the record, call me old fashioned but I always thought wins mattered.  Or do they decide who makes the post-season on total passing yards now?

[Jrb1979]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, we will see Sunday, won't we?  At least as far as passing yardage.  And is Allen "ready"?  Not completely.  And neither are the other rookie QBs.

 

As for the record, call me old fashioned but I always thought wins mattered.  Or do they decide who makes the post-season on total passing yards now?

Wins do matter but you need a decent passing game to win consistently in this league. McDermott thinks its the Rockpile days still where running the ball and playing good defense will win. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

Wins do matter but you need a decent passing game to win consistently in this league. McDermott thinks its the Rockpile days still where running the ball and playing good defense will win. 

Well, as I said we will see what happens Sunday.   Right now the Bills have a strong D, good running game.  And they had a rookie QB in the learning process and a weak receiving group.  Now, did they make decisions to put themselves in that position? Yep.  Do they need to improve the receiving corps and O line, does Allen need to develop?  Yep.  So should they focus right now in their strengths to win games?

 

You can guess the answer.

[vincec]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

The Jets front office knows what it's doing.  They leapfrogged us to trade up and get Darnold well before the draft that nobody saw coming.  They then sign Bridgewater and McCown because they value the position and displayed Bridgewater during the preseason as trade bait given Darnold was impressive enough to win the job.  It worked and they got a 3rd round pick and McCown is a solid veteran backup.  I hate the Jets, but I give them a lot of credit.

The Jets had a nice off season. Of course it will mean nothing if Darnold doesn't pan out.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

That's a huge assumption. The guys that are most prepared had the most reps in college. It's been pointed out before that Mayfield had something like almost 3 times the reps as Allen in college. Darnold was up there too. So with a physical specimen like Allen, that you want to mold into a franchise QB, the only way to do that is reps, and lots of them.

On a side note, the other huge problem that is ongoing is expecting a veteran to come in and help Allen. That's the job of the coaching staff. If McDermott feels that Badoll and whoever the WR turned QB coach is, isn't able to effectively mentor Allen, he should probably find a coach that can, not expect the backup QB to do it. 

I'm not sure what you're referring to being a huge assumption.  If it''s that we would have not lost early in with Allen starting, i don't agree.   I do agree that he needs reps and needs to play, but it will take time.  As for coaches, I agree the coaches have the main job of getting the kid where he needs to be.  But it also doesn't hurt to have a guy around who's actually been on the field to offer perspective.

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

They have darnold and got a third. Why wouldn't they trade him? 

 

I believe the Jets spent all of $500k for the insurance that Bridgewater represented before turning him into a 3rd round pick.  Compare that to the

$2.1 million in dead cap space that the Bills wasted to have McCarron on the roster for a few months and the $3.5 million in dead cap space that the Bills wasted on giving Corey Coleman a ten day tryout.  Anybody who "trusts" the clowns at OBD to competently use the 2019 draft and all that cap space to build an NFL offense probably still believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. 

 

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

There is no "almost" about it.  Negligence is defined as the failure to adhere to the industry standard of care.  As I've said elsewhere, the Bills constantly think they're smarter than everyone else - this goes back multiple regimes and multiple decades.  And EVERY TIME they try to outsmart the rest of the league, they fail miserably - it blows up in their faces in embarrassing fashion.  The QB situation in 2018 is no different (though it is remarkably similar to the Tuel/EJ fiasco).  We have negligent owners hiring negligent GMs and coaches, and they're trying to sell us that this was the plan all along.  It's a disgrace.

 

POINT.  GAME.  MATCH.   The similarities between the 2018 QB fiasco and the 2013 QB fiasco are, to quote the late, great Yogi Berra, "deja vue all over again".

 

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here is the issue.  THIS is NOT the offense they are BUILDING.  Why is this so hard for people to understand?  All these posts about what other offenses are doing make no sense.  Beane has been here exactly ONE draft and in that draft went after the most important position.  We lost 2 additional lineman unexpectedly as well.  Beane literally said it would take 2 seasons to repair the cap as well.

 

We have NOT started to BUILD the offense yet, so everyone talking about this offense as if it was by design are way way off base.  The only thing we did was tear down the crap offense everyone was complaining about for years to build it back up, but that takes MORE than one season.  And first things first, get a new QB which we did.  

 

This offense is in now way shape of form an offense they “built”, it’s literally the leftovers a mediocre offense with addition of just a few new pieces, only one of which is a key piece (Allen).  

 

Why is it so hard to understand that any offense McDermott and Beane "BUILD" isn't going to be all that different from the current offense?   McDermott is a conservative defensive minded HC who wants a strong defense and running game and doesn't value passing.  Add the  incompetence in evaluating offensive talent that McDermott/Beane have already demonstrated, and the idea of the current regime BUILDING a modern NFL offense (ie, one in which the QB might throw for 250-300 yards a few times a season) is simply a pipe dream. 

 

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I guarantee you that McD is not happy about it....you can the strain on his face right now......

 

He simply does not know offense....and he needs to bring in ppl that do.   His defense is crackerjack

 

He's missed on both of his OCs.  His WR coach (Robiskie) can't even get his WRs to line up correctly.  His QB coach is a former WR not a QB and has no track record for developing QBs.  He doesn't know offense, and he doesn't care because he doesn't value the offense.

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

14 hours ago, AllenWillBust said:

What's damning is they have no clue about QB talent.

 

1) That Peterman is on the roster at all this season

2) That Allen was drafted

 

They are the worst in the league at the QB position, and they had ample opportunity to draft QB's that could have changed that, but they blew it, as per usual. 

 

 

Well, with your choice of name it’ll be tough for JA to ever win you over, eh? Kind of limits the ceiling he can ever have in your book without you looking silly. But hey, let’s revisit @ end of this year, maybe you’ll be the smart one! 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here is the issue.  THIS is NOT the offense they are BUILDING.  Why is this so hard for people to understand?  All these posts about what other offenses are doing make no sense.  Beane has been here exactly ONE draft and in that draft went after the most important position.  We lost 2 additional lineman unexpectedly as well.  Beane literally said it would take 2 seasons to repair the cap as well.

 

We have NOT started to BUILD the offense yet, so everyone talking about this offense as if it was by design are way way off base.  The only thing we did was tear down the crap offense everyone was complaining about for years to build it back up, but that takes MORE than one season.  And first things first, get a new QB which we did.  

 

This offense is in now way shape of form an offense they “built”, it’s literally the leftovers a mediocre offense with addition of just a few new pieces, only one of which is a key piece (Allen).  

^^^^^^This. The problem is McBeane are at the end of a 17yr compilation of comical ineptitude, which necessarily = a shorter attention span/thin patience from much of the fan base, quite understandably. But they broke the drought ladies and gents. That’s not speculation that’s not fake news, that’s a fact. That should earn them at least the room to mold this roster through a couple of drafts and FA periods before anyone loses their minds. Have there been missteps? Obviously. Have there been good solid moves/coaching as well? You bet. At least they didn’t whiff on TB12 in the 2000 draft, who the Bills could’ve picked 5 times over before NE got him. My point is, give them space to figure this thing out, and let them finish cleaning up other regimes’ messes. They’ve earned that right after 2017.

6 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

They may all be the same but they would all be an upgrade over what the Bills have been trotting out at QB. I am sure most would easily be able to throw for more yards then what the Bills average now. 

Anyone, inc. all current Bills QB’s, could throw for more yards if they had better WR play, or the talent surrounding even Josh Rosen, who looked abysmal tonight BTW.