Could Pulling the Trigger to Soon Have Changed the Path of the Future ?

[Coach Tuesday]

Hopefully this doesn't mean we have to go back in time to make out with our mom like McFly did.  As if this season could get any worse.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, buffalostu2 said:

That is all well and good if you are an expansion team.  However in the NFL you inherit players when you get a job and that means coaching difficult personalities not just "your guys".  Recklessly moving every player from the previous GM and bringing in subpar talent from your old team is insecurity IMO.  Our baby GM has been begging for credit since he was serving coffee in Carolina and especially after he was intern GM and didn't get the job.  The NFL does not have the patience for Beane's approach.  This guy would be getting roasted if he did not have a fantastic coach bailing him out.  McD wins in spite of Beane.

 

We are Bills fans, how the hell could yo know what a  proper rebuild looks like?  Is this what the Rams did?  Aren't they the model?  

I don't violently disagree with your points.  I don't mind the draft day trades to get a QB or Edmunds.   The cap situation however is Beane's mess more than Whaley's.  Go to Sportrac and look up the dead cap.  50% of those are contracts Beane and 50% are Whaley.  In just two years.  He is not just cleaning it up.  Do the research and you will see. 

 

I love what we have done on D.  But that D ranking is only for yards.  The #3 D in the league doesn't get blown out two games in a row do they?  Granted they are playing better and headed in the right direction.   I go with scoring which I have been criticized for only using one stat.        

McDermott trusts Beane. They work in conjunction. I'm not sure where you got the information that our "baby GM has been begging for credit since he was serving coffee in Carolina." It's also interim GM, not intern GM. Those are some pretty disrespectful words considering it takes a hell of a lot of effort to get to where Brandon Beane is today. I don't care if the NFL doesn't have patience for Beane's approach, the Pegula family does and that is all that matters. 

 

I would disagree the Rams are the model. Sure, they had the #1 overall pick that happened to be a QB, which is one model to build a team (young QB on rookie contract and build around him with talent). They also have the best non-QB offensive player in the game. Not to mention when their regime came in they had free money to spend on guys like Woods, Watkins, etc. We weren't in that position, everything in the NFL does not happen in a vacuum lol. Our cap situation is different than the Pats and the Pats is different than the Rams and Rams different than the Packers. 

 

I don't understand your whole Spotrac thing. Sure 50% of the contracts are from Beane and 50% of Whaley... but that's just 50% of the players signed and cut... not the cap hit lol. Of course Beane is going to have around 50% of guys on there, he's currently the GM, and has had to cut guys. Nobody cares about the 38K cap hit from Ruben Holcomb or $500 cap hit from Quan Bray. We're looking at Dareus, Wood, Glenn, Taylor, Williams, Ragland, Incognitio, Washington. Those guys are 8 of the top 12 dead cap hits... all Whaley signed contracts. Sure, Wood and Incognito are unusual circumstance but the problem is guys like Dareus, Glenn, Taylor were marginally productive and eating up roughly 1/3 of the cap when they were on the active roster... if Beane didn't move them when he did, our team would be in a poor position not only this year but for the remainder of their contracts. He took a hit this year, to build things back up the way that he and McDermott believe is the best way.

 

The whole 50% of the guys cut were signed by Whaley and the other 50% were signed by Beane doesn't make any sense. Sorry.

[familykwi]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:15 AM, TaskersGhost said:

It's too late for McBeane to learn from their mistakes.  They're in with both feet now on Allen.  

 

Peterman, who IMO was never anything other than a 5th-round QB, at best, why should anyone think that their assessment of Allen was any better? 

This is the kind of comment I cannot understand.  When did the draft become a precise and predictable event? 

 

Early draft picks are evaluated as close to cannot miss, or having measureables that cannot be passed on.  Obviously there are plenty of misses.

 

Late picks are guys who have some pros and some cons and teams hope they all outperform their draft position.  Some do, many don't.

 

Why assert that YOU KNEW that a late round pick wouldn't be good?  Way to go Nostradamus!  Great call.

 

I think every owner should fire every GM and coach who's ever missed on a pick.  Obviously missing on one means they don't know what they're doing across the board.  

 

Since McDermott hit on Tre White, we should just draft DB after DB.  At least they're good at that.

 

Maybe we stop acting as though a long term plan to build long term success may take more than one draft.  We cannot continue to have it both ways.  The playoff monkey is off our back DESPITE every analyst predicting this team to be bottom barrel last year.  After two games this year, we presented as one of the worst teams in recent history.  Low and behold, we won 2 of the next 3 and were in a position to win a 3rd.

 

Clearly not everything is perfect.  Time will tell is "the process" worked.  Just PLEASE fess up later if you turn out to be wrong now.  I hope to hear from you in a couple of years.

 

Feel free to lay low until then.

[LeGOATski]

They should've drafted Josh Rosen. He'd be playing adequate, complimentary football right now as a rookie with the potential to develop into a franchise QB. 

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the hardest one to figure out.

[Paul Costa]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

They should've drafted Josh Rosen. He'd be playing adequate, complimentary football right now as a rookie with the potential to develop into a franchise QB. 

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the hardest one to figure out.

It’s way to early to predict who we should have drafted. Time will tell. How would Josh Allen look with KC? How would Mahomes look this year with the Bills. Let Allen develop like everyone knew he needed to do to reach his ceiling!! 

[Mr. WEO]

On October 17, 2018 at 12:05 PM, buffalostu2 said:

 

I am in the same boat as far as displeasure with Beane and his insecure tear down.   It's not a rebuild, it is a tear down IMO.  Adding two players with first round picks does not signal a rebuild.  The cap is in the worst position it has ever been for the Bills.   And before you say that he had to cut the previous contracts you may want to research it - 50%+ of the dead cap are contracts from Beane's own doing.  The real problem with Beane is he hasn't even learned the hardest lesson of being the Buffalo Bills GM.  It is difficult to lure free agents to Buffalo as a destination and on top of that New England runs our division.  Posters are going to say they go where the money is but then why are we the only team in the league where guys don't even show up when claimed and/or quit at halftime.  Most of us were born in Buffalo and love it, but 22 yr old soon to be millionaires who only see it on TV when there is a snowstorm have different opinions.  Unless Carolina's entire offense has their contracts expiring I don't see how Beane can rebuild this offense next year no matter how much cap space.   Especially with a stronger defensive as opposed to offensive free agent pool and draft class.  

 

 I do think you went too far in writing off Zay Jones and Shady already though.            

 

 I do think you went too far in writing off Zay Jones and Shady already though.

 

I'm gonna go get the papers.  Get the papers...

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Paul Costa said:

It’s way to early to predict who we should have drafted. Time will tell. How would Josh Allen look with KC? How would Mahomes look this year with the Bills. Let Allen develop like everyone knew he needed to do to reach his ceiling!! 

If their plan was to roll with Peterman/McCarron, then they should've gotten the rookie who would be ready to start soon.

 

The rookie with all the tools displayed by the league's longest-lasting franchise QBs (smarts, accuracy, competitiveness, poise) was sitting right there for the Bills to take, but they grabbed the guy with the big arm, instead.

 

It's not too early to have an opinion.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

If their plan was to roll with Peterman/McCarron, then they should've gotten the rookie who would be ready to start soon.

 

The rookie with all the tools displayed by the league's longest-lasting franchise QBs (smarts, accuracy, competitiveness, poise) was sitting right there for the Bills to take, but they grabbed the guy with the big arm, instead.

 

It's not too early to have an opinion.

Turn on your TV.

[familykwi]

30 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

If their plan was to roll with Peterman/McCarron, then they should've gotten the rookie who would be ready to start soon.

 

The rookie with all the tools displayed by the league's longest-lasting franchise QBs (smarts, accuracy, competitiveness, poise) was sitting right there for the Bills to take, but they grabbed the guy with the big arm, instead.

 

It's not too early to have an opinion.

I assume you're referring to Rosen.  I admit, I wanted them to go that direction myself.  Tonight is not exactly the game where we will see the Rosen supporters step up.  

[Paul Costa]

35 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

If their plan was to roll with Peterman/McCarron, then they should've gotten the rookie who would be ready to start soon.

 

The rookie with all the tools displayed by the league's longest-lasting franchise QBs (smarts, accuracy, competitiveness, poise) was sitting right there for the Bills to take, but they grabbed the guy with the big arm, instead.

 

It's not too early to have an opinion.

Who are you saying the Bills should have drafted? Rosen ??

[LeGOATski]

5 hours ago, familykwi said:

I assume you're referring to Rosen.  I admit, I wanted them to go that direction myself.  Tonight is not exactly the game where we will see the Rosen supporters step up.  

A bad game doesn't negate the point. Rosen's passing game is advanced enough that he could be playing complimentary football to our #3 defense. They should've grabbed him, since all we had in the QB room was a couple of back-ups, at best.

 

AZ's defense is #24 and they're run game is #32.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

If their plan was to roll with Peterman/McCarron, then they should've gotten the rookie who would be ready to start soon.

 

The rookie with all the tools displayed by the league's longest-lasting franchise QBs (smarts, accuracy, competitiveness, poise) was sitting right there for the Bills to take, but they grabbed the guy with the big arm, instead.

 

It's not too early to have an opinion.

 

This aged well

[Ronin]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:09 PM, familykwi said:

This is the kind of comment I cannot understand.  When did the draft become a precise and predictable event? 

 

Early draft picks are evaluated as close to cannot miss, or having measureables that cannot be passed on.  Obviously there are plenty of misses.

 

Late picks are guys who have some pros and some cons and teams hope they all outperform their draft position.  Some do, many don't.

 

Why assert that YOU KNEW that a late round pick wouldn't be good?  Way to go Nostradamus!  Great call.

 

I think every owner should fire every GM and coach who's ever missed on a pick.  Obviously missing on one means they don't know what they're doing across the board.  

 

Since McDermott hit on Tre White, we should just draft DB after DB.  At least they're good at that.

 

Maybe we stop acting as though a long term plan to build long term success may take more than one draft.  We cannot continue to have it both ways.  The playoff monkey is off our back DESPITE every analyst predicting this team to be bottom barrel last year.  After two games this year, we presented as one of the worst teams in recent history.  Low and behold, we won 2 of the next 3 and were in a position to win a 3rd.

 

Clearly not everything is perfect.  Time will tell is "the process" worked.  Just PLEASE fess up later if you turn out to be wrong now.  I hope to hear from you in a couple of years.

 

Feel free to lay low until then.

 

You'd get so outdone in evaluating collegiate talent that you'd regret having asked.  

 

I was one of the few that publicly said that Spiller would be a bust, that Watkins' collegiate play wouldn't translate rendering him a bust as well, even more so for Jones, probably here too.  I'm sure some of that is here too.  

 

Contrary to your beliefs, it's not nearly the craps shoot that you seem to think it is.  Did you ever stop and wonder why there's so little disagreement amount draft analysts as to the top say around 50 players?  

 

Either way, taking 5 picks ranging from 12th overall to 65th overall (1st in the 3rd) round, using essentially four of those to draft Allen, is a factual occurrence.  There merits of that strategy can also be debated and conclusions drawn immediately.  

 

It helps if one understands college ball, NFL history, and a few other things.  Just because someone gets paid a ton of money to do this doens't mean that they're competent at it.  I mean seriously, you're a Bills fan and don't understant that?  

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[buffalostu2]

On 10/18/2018 at 10:40 AM, JGMcD2 said:

McDermott trusts Beane. They work in conjunction. I'm not sure where you got the information that our "baby GM has been begging for credit since he was serving coffee in Carolina." It's also interim GM, not intern GM. Those are some pretty disrespectful words considering it takes a hell of a lot of effort to get to where Brandon Beane is today. I don't care if the NFL doesn't have patience for Beane's approach, the Pegula family does and that is all that matters. 

 

I would disagree the Rams are the model. Sure, they had the #1 overall pick that happened to be a QB, which is one model to build a team (young QB on rookie contract and build around him with talent). They also have the best non-QB offensive player in the game. Not to mention when their regime came in they had free money to spend on guys like Woods, Watkins, etc. We weren't in that position, everything in the NFL does not happen in a vacuum lol. Our cap situation is different than the Pats and the Pats is different than the Rams and Rams different than the Packers. 

 

I don't understand your whole Spotrac thing. Sure 50% of the contracts are from Beane and 50% of Whaley... but that's just 50% of the players signed and cut... not the cap hit lol. Of course Beane is going to have around 50% of guys on there, he's currently the GM, and has had to cut guys. Nobody cares about the 38K cap hit from Ruben Holcomb or $500 cap hit from Quan Bray. We're looking at Dareus, Wood, Glenn, Taylor, Williams, Ragland, Incognitio, Washington. Those guys are 8 of the top 12 dead cap hits... all Whaley signed contracts. Sure, Wood and Incognito are unusual circumstance but the problem is guys like Dareus, Glenn, Taylor were marginally productive and eating up roughly 1/3 of the cap when they were on the active roster... if Beane didn't move them when he did, our team would be in a poor position not only this year but for the remainder of their contracts. He took a hit this year, to build things back up the way that he and McDermott believe is the best way.

 

The whole 50% of the guys cut were signed by Whaley and the other 50% were signed by Beane doesn't make any sense. Sorry.

 

50% of the dead cap dollars, not guys.  You didn't do you action item before posting.  This isn't twitter - LOL   

 

Also I am not being disrespectful at all to how Beane worked his way up.  It is commendable but you could argue that working in one organization your whole life is not the best way to prepare for the hardest job in sports, in a different organization.  Maybe the hardest job since it is the Bills.   

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:30 PM, LeGOATski said:

They should've drafted Josh Rosen. He'd be playing adequate, complimentary football right now as a rookie with the potential to develop into a franchise QB. 

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the hardest one to figure out.

 

..DEFINITELY has proven himself as an NFL commodity while Allen is CERTAINLY a proven bust............thank you for the insight....OR....incite.........

[iinii]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:46 AM, ctk232 said:

Bit too soon though you have some points. In all honesty the QB situation could've been handled better once they knew AJM wasn't the guy they thought he was. But the injury gave them an excuse to do what they've been too scared to do since the season started, yet had planned to do all along: let him sit and develop. While I agree he was our best and likely only option with Peterman playing the way he did, they could have sat him at any time. If this was a kid drafted with known development needs, and they were clear that he would sit out the first season so the Bills coaches and FO could figure out what was needed to help him succeed and be the QB we need, then they could have done that at any point and just owned it.

 

I was watching the pressers earlier this week and how we handled the QB questions and everything just seems so defensive. Any realistic fan could tell the playoffs were a bit of a pipe dream this year, and they were clear they were still building a team for the future. So commit to it, own it, bench your future QB when you need to and start him whenever you want to if it's all for his development and progress and the future. If he is the project kid with the mental toughness he's reported to have, why does his development have to be all or nothing? 

 

It generates a media circus blowing this out of proportion. Our offense is not performing well regardless of the QB, so whatever decision you make just own it and go with it.

Well thank God for dumb luck....

19 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

 

50% of the dead cap dollars, not guys.  You didn't do you action item before posting.  This isn't twitter - LOL   

 

Also I am not being disrespectful at all to how Beane worked his way up.  It is commendable but you could argue that working in one organization your whole life is not the best way to prepare for the hardest job in sports, in a different organization.  Maybe the hardest job since it is the Bills.   

Very salient point you make. I have seen a number of people in business look real good until they leave the home base that they grew up in. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

So many words in this thread... soooo many words

[Bing Bong]

I said all along I didn't want a project QB because A) I've never seen that label pan out... If you didn't learn the requisite skills in 2-3 years of college ball you've proven you're a little slow to getting coached (hope I'm wrong here, rarely see that label succeed) B) we simply were not in a position for that.. needed a day 1 starter or someone who could get in very soon in case of Peterpocolypse. As does almost every team that goes high on a QB. 

[stevestojan]

Sorry, this may have been a wonderfully intelligent conversation, but the to/too thing is killing me. 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 10/17/2018 at 7:41 AM, T master said:

With in a football game they say it only takes one or 2 plays to cause the game to be won or lost as we saw last week, when the back up QB was called on & after throwing a TD to win the game threw a pass to also lose the game.

 

 I believe that the same can be said about coaching decisions with in a season can cause a totally different out come by just a couple of moves. McD made one IMHO this year that may have made this season & the maturation process of Allen be in a totally different place than it is right now . Not to mention Allen's injury .

 

At the beginning of the season they brought in what this fan thought was the guy to possibly be the starter at QB this year while Allen & quite possibly Petermen sat & learned that guy being McCaron, but seeing as Petermen did all the right things to win the starting job they bailed on the original plan or "Process" as it's called  ! 

 

As it stands now we all know where the Bills QB situation is but by one decision it could be totally different & i hope McD & Bean are the kind that learn from their mistakes ! I know a lot of you will think & rightfully so this is a could of, should of, would of, post & it is i think it is relevant to where the team is now not to mention the maturation of our coach & GM .

 

I know a lot of people here didn't like the AJ move because of his lack of "on field playing time" but given what's transpired to this point it would have been good to keep him around longer than they did or at the very least to see what Petermen could or could not do which could have put the Bills in a totally different place to this point .

 

If some common sense & patience was used prior to Petermen imploding the first time AJ would have been put in as the #2, Allen would still be 3rd on the list learning as they supposedly wanted him to be to learn . Then if AJ would have gotten dinged in any way like the last game Petermen would have been put in only to implode again but Allen would have had 6 more games to learn from .

 

Following what i thought at the beginning of the year was a plan laid out (or at least what looked like the plan in this fans eyes) to have a veteran with a little bit more experience than the other QB's on the roster to at least to be there incase something like what has happened, happens could be there to steady the ship but instead here they are !

 

To throw it all to the way side only to find them selves where they are in a situation to have to go out & now bring in a QB that's older, less athletic, that hasn't played in more than a few years & that doesn't know the play book makes no sense what so ever !! Which with this one decision at the beginning of the season could have changed the out come of not only a season but for our QB of the futures career in some ways .

 

I like to this point a lot of things McBean has done & think they will get to where they are headed with this team but i hope this one move doesn't define their time here or Allen's future I also hope the Anderson decision will be a good one !! 

 

Buffalo has had a couple decent QB's here over the years which "could have" had different out comes possibly if certain decisions were made differently & i hope this one isn't another one that has put the Bills QB future in jeopardy once again by possibly pulling the trigger to quickly !

 

Bash away Bills fans !! 

 

 

In a nutshell the decision to keep Peterman way over his stay will ultimately cost Sean his job.