oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Livinginthepast said: He was pretty good for the Jets in the preseason if you can really reach a conclusion from the stats. Some Jets fans were not happy with the trade. As for your observation about the Jets trading him to the Bills or not doing so. You would think that might be the case that they wouldn't trade to a division rival but I would like to know if the Bills even inquired (which they should have). How in the hell did the Saints get him? Were the Jets shopping him around? Why wasn't Beane at least on the phone scrambling around trying to get another viable QB option? They had already seen Bridgewater perform better than McCarron in the preseason. Perhaps Beane should have been signing Bridgewater in March to try out right after they traded TT? I just don't understand the logic of going into the season with 2 unproven QBs when there were so many other options available that could be had on the cheap! Total mismanagement! Let's look back objectively instead of being in reactionary mode. First, no one knows if Beane approached the Jets or not. So if we don't know, it seems a little dumb to just assume that he wasn't. That's just showing bias against him for no actual reason. I think the more plausible thing is that the Jets would not want to potentially strengthen a division rival that made the playoffs ahead of them the year before. Now, they could have signed Bridgewater when he hit the market in March, but recall that many teams were concerned about his injury history. Hindsight being 20:20 they probably should have, but that's why hindsight isn't particularly helpful. The other factor that comes into play is the cap dollars. Like it or not, and one can make a legitimate argument for and against, they wanted to get out of the cap situation they were in. And they knew, or at least it seems they knew, they were going after their long term QB in the draft. Which they wound up doing of course. So they were not going to pay millions for a one year rental of a guy like a Taylor or a Bradford or even a Keenum. Again, you can argue that, but I'm trying to go back and look objectively at their moves. So they were in the market for an affordable veteran QB that could play until they felt Allen, or whomever they drafted, was ready. That turned out to be McCarron. Fast forward to training camp. Peterman came out and did really well. And again, for maybe the tenth time since yesterday, I understand it was preseason, but the kid looked good and beat out McCarron. I don' think anyone who watched objectively this past summer can argue McCarron was better than Peterman. So from what I've read McCarron didn't want to stay as a backup. So they traded him. Now here is where I think they messed up. At that point they should have increased their contract offer to Anderson, or another similar guy. Or maybe traded for another backup, although my opinion is that most backups are of pretty similar skill sets so it wouldn't ultimately matter much which one you got. That would have given them a veteran who's been around the block, as a guy who could mentor not just Allen but Peterman. Do I think a vet like that would have started right away week 1? No, because Peterman earned his shot in pre-season. And promptly threw up all over himself. At that point if they had made a stronger move to get say an Anderson, he starts week 2 then, Allen can still sit and learn, and Peterman goes to the third spot or gets released. But they didn't, and Allen gets thrown into the fire. I am 50:50 on whether Allen develops more by playing or sitting, but either way having that vet would have given the team the option either way. So they deserve to be criticized. I think all but maybe one or two folks around here would agree. But playing what ifs all the time assuming we know what happened or should have happened behind the scenes isn't really useful, because we don't have that knowledge. All that said, my gut is they win Sunday. I think the D matches up very well against Luck, I think we can run on them, and I think Anderson just needs to play within himself and not lose the game, as Peterman did last week with that horrible throw. 1
apuszczalowski Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 What is a second year 5th round pick QB from a small school with an NFL record worst start going to teach a rookie QB from a small school about playing football that he doesnt already know? Besides what foods are good in the cafeteria, which showers have the warmest water and where the bathrooms are.
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Yeah but he consistently did well in preseason and earned a spot. Then he just does what he does in games. Just a mystery to me. The thing is, maybe teams should cast a jaundiced eye in preseason toward QB play. Rob Johnson was a HOF preseason player. It is simply not the same because the scheming is vanilla, which matters supremely for judging the QB position. It's on the coaches to successfully assess that. McCarron is not great, but he has performed decently in real-game situations (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaA.00/gamelog/2015/ ). He's a guy who can get you to 2-2 over a 4-game NFL stretch. Peterman is a guy with the yips who is simply terrible. Here were the other options. Most were probably better than Peterman: http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018QB.php. Edited October 17, 2018 by dave mcbride
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JPP said: LOL...come on really?? Yeah Peterman has a vast amount of experience in all 8 or so quarters he played with 80 thundering yards with 10 interceptions.....he should not even speak to anyone about QBing.... I disagree, I think having Peterman be able to share his experience from last year with Allen is beneficial at the moment and if he is able to prevent Allen from making even just 1 of the many mistakes that Peterman made it is worth the small contract they are currently paying Peterman. Even last game, when Allen was struggling to move the ball before his injury, he can learn something from seeing Peterman come in and eventually hit Zay on the TD. This may change once Anderson is up to speed (Which sounds like it could be soon) but then they will decide if it is more beneficial to have a QB room of 2 or 3, as every decision should be made with the focus on what is best for the development of Allen.
boyst Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 McCarron didn't show anything near the potential I expected of him. We traded him away correctly. Peterman was the greatest issue we had. We didn't need him.
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: The thing is, maybe teams should cast a jaundiced eye in preseason toward QB play. Rob Johnson was a HOF preseason player. It is simply not the same because the scheming is vanilla, which matters supremely for judging the QB position. It's on the coaches to successfully assess that. McCarron is not great, but he has performed decently in real-game situations (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaA.00/gamelog/2015/ ). He's a guy who can get you to 2-2 over a 4-game NFL stretch. Peterman is a guy with the yips who is simply terrible. Here were the other options. Most were probably better than Peterman: http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018QB.php. I think they should have brought in a guy when McCarron got traded. Looking at the list you posted, it would not have mattered which one. They are all pretty much the same guy.
boyst Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Isn’t it terrifying though that he can’t see that on his own? Does he really need the leadership council to say, “hey this guy stinks?” If such is that case: The team seeing McDermott allow his OC to bench Taylor last year now be indecisive on Peterman is going to be his downfall.
BillsFan4 Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Well should have upped their offer. Tasker said that Derek Anderson did not want to go through a training camp at 35yrs old, and he wanted to spend time with his family. And it was reported that Josh McCown’s preference was to stay with the Jets and wanted to be promised the starting role (which the Jets did do initially).
Peter Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: McCarron didn't show anything near the potential I expected of him. We traded him away correctly. Peterman was the greatest issue we had. We didn't need him. I thought that AJ was ok . . . especially under the circumstances. I have linked one of my posts in response to a discussion here about a game in which others thought he did not play well: In my judgment it was negligence to trade the guy given that he was the only guy with any kind of experience who knew the playbook and could step right in and given what he has shown while playing in games that mattered. 46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: So from what I've read McCarron didn't want to stay as a backup. I heard this for the first time yesterday . . . from Steve Tasker during his show with Murph. I suspect that this is merely PR damage control on behalf of McBeane. This is especially nonsensical given that he is a backup with the Raiders and how gracious both his Mom and his wife were after he was traded. AJ clearly had a better opportunity to start with the Bills at some time during this season than he ever would behind David Carr. Edited October 17, 2018 by Peter 1
mannc Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Peter said: I thought that AJ was ok . . . especially under the circumstances. I have linked one of my posts in response to a discussion here about a game in which others thought he did not play well: In my judgment it was negligence to trade the guy given that he was the only guy with any kind of experience who knew the playbook and could step right in and given what he has shown while playing in games that mattered. I think it was more “reckless” than “negligent.”
BillsFan130 Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Peter said: As I mentioned earlier, McBeane mismanaged the QB position on multiple levels: 1) TT never should have been pulled last year and Peterman never should have started that game. Peterman clearly was not ready, and I have to believe that what happened in that game negatively affected him . . . and has since then. I am not saying he is a number one QB, but I do believe that he could have been at least a serviceable backup. 2) Mahomes - the McCoach defenders hate it when people bring up Mahomes' name. So be it. Mahomes is forever linked with McCoach and the decision to trade that pick . . . and everything that resulted from there (choosing Josh and all of the assets that we had to give up to draft him). 3) Josh Allen - we can debate about whether the Bills should have drafted him where we did. I think that it is pretty clear that it was not wise to give up so much just to be able to draft him where we did . . . especially given that we have put him in such a difficult position. 4) Offensive line - we did not do our QBs or our RBs any favors here . . . especially a QB who is very raw and needs time to learn the position and develop (if he ever will). The fact that Josh takes so much time to make a decision in the pocket further demonstrates that. Josh also has an historically bad 1.6 QB rating under pressure. It would be nice for our young and very, very raw QB if we had a dominant running game. We used to. In 2016, we averaged 5.3 yards per carry. In 2017, we averaged 4.1 yards per carry. This year, we are averaging 3.6 yards per carry. 5) Receivers - see offensive line. What weapons do our QBs have?!? Of course, people bring up Sammy (especially after what we gave up to draft him) but what about a guy like Goodwin? Did we even make an effort to extend him or was an Olympic athlete not part of the process or culture. 6) AJ McCarron (or Derek Anderson or someone else) - I thought it was idiotic to trade the only guy with experience who knew the playbook . . . especially someone who was so cheap and had shown that he was at least serviceable with the Bengals (and perhaps more). Some have observed that Mahomes is in a better situation because he was allowed to sit and learn. We controlled that and failed. For someone as raw as Josh Allen is, it would have made so much sense not to have to rush him along. This year clearly has shown that. I had my doubts about drafting Josh and certainly did not agree with all of the assets that we had to give up to get him. Nevertheless, I like the kid and want him to succeed. I take it that McBeane love the kid but have made it all the more difficult for the kid to develop into a capable NFL starter let alone a franchise QB. I hope he can do it, but McBeane did not do him any favors. In the end, McBeane's fortunes (and the team's) will rise and fall with how well Josh Allen plays and whether he is that franchise QB he should be especially given the assets that we gave up to get him. If he does become that franchise QB, my hat is off to the kid given the tough spot that we have put him in. Just my two cents. Did I read that right? Allen has a 1 passer rating when blitzed?...
Peter Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Did I read that right? Allen has a 1 passer rating when blitzed?... To be fair, it is a 1.6. Edited October 17, 2018 by Peter 1 1
BillsFan130 Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Peter said: To be fair, it is a 1.6. Still 1.6 higher than Nate Petermans overall QB rating week 1 haha
John from Riverside Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 I am ok with Josh Allen not playing again this season (or playing at the end of the season) He should have never been put out there with this putrid offense......
Haze_21 Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 Preseason is *****, mccarron should have been the starter and peterman should have been jettisoned into outerspace.
Peter Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: It's complete nonsense. They ***** up royally.That's really all it is. And McDermott loves Peterman for his Christian culture. In fact, it was even nonsensical . . . if one were to select QBs based on that criterion: AJ's Tattoo Both AJ and Nate are devoted Christians. Edited October 17, 2018 by Peter 1
1billsfan Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 17 hours ago, Fadingpain said: "To trade your only slightly proven guy was a mistake and clearly if you look at this situation logically you would say that it's absolute lunacy that it's likely or even possible that in Week 7 of the NFL season, the starting QB for the rest of the season could be a guy they picked up off the street. It's been a mismanaged position." "This has turned into a disaster at the most important position in team sports." From Hour 3 of One Bills Live today. Starts 2 minutes into the hour. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/10-16-hr-3-one-bills-live I just don't get it. The Bills' offensive line and WR corps are both literally bottom of the league. Yet there somehow is all of this drama about the QB position? Peter King thinks the QB position handling was lunacy? No QB is going to look good with this offensive unit. People like King, need to get a handle on reality. AJ McCarron was not going to look good with this offensive unit, neither is Anderson, or Peterman, or Allen. Until the Bills rebuild the line and they get a true #1 receiver, the QB (whoever is in there) is just along for the bumpy ride. As for Josh Allen, look at Steve Young's horrid numbers in Tampa his first two years. I would bet Young had the same level of talent or better that Allen does now. It's simply going to be a long year because the offense is very very far from being good right now.
apuszczalowski Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said: I disagree, I think having Peterman be able to share his experience from last year with Allen is beneficial at the moment and if he is able to prevent Allen from making even just 1 of the many mistakes that Peterman made it is worth the small contract they are currently paying Peterman. Even last game, when Allen was struggling to move the ball before his injury, he can learn something from seeing Peterman come in and eventually hit Zay on the TD. This may change once Anderson is up to speed (Which sounds like it could be soon) but then they will decide if it is more beneficial to have a QB room of 2 or 3, as every decision should be made with the focus on what is best for the development of Allen. Peterman cant even prevent himself from making basic mistakes, how is he supposed to help Allen learn to not make them? There is nothing special about Peterman that you cant get from any other street FA QB. Even the idea that 'he was the only one with experience in the offence' was wrong because a brand new OC was hired this offseason meaning none of the QBs bad an advantage because none of them played for Daboll before. That might be the only excuse for him staying on the roster now is that he knows the playbook over any one they bring in now Peterman is here and stays on the roster cause the coach has a man crush on him and they see something in him that no one else can see apparently
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