SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: 30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon Again I evaluated every pass play from the first half yesterday, those where he not only threw but when he ran. Take a look at it. Instead of just throwing out cliché-like statements take a look at how I broke it down and then we can discuss actual vs. theoreticals. Sounds eerily familiar to TT. An 8 year vet 4th seasons as a starter. One is a rookie (who we hope can improve), the other a guy who people still think can improve. 1
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: What does this have to do with where he is and what he needs to be a long term successful NFL QB? You should consider a more meaningful response. How about this. Your analysis of Josh Allen seems wrong in almost every regard. You have developed a personal opinion (which is your right) and that personal opinion destroys all objectivity regarding his performance, which in turn destroys your credibility. Hope that clears things up for you. Edited October 16, 2018 by PlayoffsPlease 2
Rebel101 Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Troll Toll said: I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams. People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys. I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are: 1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate. 2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era: 1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues. 2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field. 3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest. 4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs. When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started. I mean Darnold and Mayfield have both put up better numbers and have both looked substantially better then Allen in every game they have played....have they looked perfect, no of course not, but they have looked better. I’m not saying throw in the towel on Allen and I do believe if he didn’t get hurt we win that game. I’m still alittle confused as to why we started throwing more with the lead and peterman in but whatever Daboll is starting to prove to me he is incapable of understanding how to beat an NFL defense. And I do think Allen has improved slightly and hopefully he will continue to grow but he has a ways to go but I do disagree with what he needs to fix. He needs to fix his footwork which will improve his accuracy, he needs to stay in the pocket longer, keep his eyes down field, he needs to read defenses better post snap, and learn how to exploit certain coverages.Daboll needs to begin getting the offense to the line sooner so presnap he can give Allen the audible and give him less to think about. But to say Allen darnold and mayfield are all equal as this point is silly Allen has been clearly the weaker of the 3 1
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: How about this. Your analysis of Josh Allen seems wrong in almost every regard. You have developed a personal opinion (which is your right) and that personal opinion has destroys all objectivity regarding his performance, which in turn destroys your credibility. Hope that clears things up for you. How so? Where is your evidence based on his actual performance on the field? Easy to make a declarative statement with nothing to back it up. I'll be waiting. Edited October 16, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1
drf1835 Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 Prior to the draft, Josh was advertised as the least ready of all the rookie qbs. That still appears evident as he holds on to the ball the longest. According to espn, he releases the ball after 3.15 seconds, worst in the nfl. So, whether he is hesitant because of bad habit in trusting his strong arm too much to make up the difference, or because right now he processes or reads things slower, or as he is thinking too much, or with a desire to make the best or most perfect play, or something else, I am not sure. Regardless, I feel Josh is likely just that type of qb that takes a year or two at most to blossom. He is tough, with great attitude and work ethic, and seems smart, and he has a strong arm and can run, we know. Of course with less nfl experience, a below average oline and recievers, he likely feels more pressure or hesitancy. Things will slow down and he will gain more confidence, the more he plays and finds successes on the field, snd the more comfort with his teammates. The way I look at it, he has played against lots of blitzes, good defenses and did not crumble. He has been through the worst. Things should improve, if the coaches soon let him rip it, and do not keep handcuffing him. 2 1
MAJBobby Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: I am willing to venture a guess that Allen's receivers have had more drops too. On the other hand ESPN's possibly dubious QBR rating, which tries to account for some of the factors you mention, does put Allen behind the other QBs at this point. You would be wrong on the Drops. Cle and Az have more drops than Bills and Jets have one less drop than Bills. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 I think he's #4 just a bit behind Rosen. Mayfield is already a field general. Jets are putting up 30+ a game with no true offensive stars, Rosen has been a hair better than Allen in moving the chains and accuracy. I'm ok with Josh for now because of his arm. By this time next year, I expect him to be making the throws that Mahomes is making. That's his upside. His downside is Glennon or Osweiller. Brock is just turning the corner now after being demoted. I truly think the Bills messed this up bad by not bringing in Teddy B and/or McCarron and letting Peterman go. How his name is still on the roster today melts my brain a little.
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, drf1835 said: Prior to the draft, Josh was advertised as the least ready of all the rookie qbs. That still appears evident as he holds on to the ball the longest. According to espn, he releases the ball after 3.15 seconds, worst in the nfl. So, whether he is hesitant because of bad habit in trusting his strong arm too much to make up the difference, or because right now he processes or reads things slower, or as he is thinking too much, or with a desire to make the best or most perfect play, or something else, I am not sure. Regardless, I feel Josh is likely just that type of qb that takes a year or two at most to blossom. He is tough, with great attitude and work ethic, and seems smart, and he has a strong arm and can run, we know. Of course with less nfl experience, a below average oline and recievers, he likely feels more pressure or hesitancy. Things will slow down and he will gain more confidence, the more he plays and finds successes on the field, snd the more comfort with his teammates. The way I look at it, he has played against lots of blitzes, good defenses and did not crumble. He has been through the worst. Things should improve, if the coaches soon let him rip it, and do not keep handcuffing him. It is also possible, that Allen's first read gets open far less often than any other QBs first read in the NFL. I am not claiming this is the case. But given my perception that the receivers are truly awful, it seems possible. 3
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: No one should be shocked that he has a steep learning curve or take it as an affront when it's stated he's behind the other rookie QBs who were drafted in the top ten. I would like to see the Bills build an offense around his athleticism. Fans don't want to hear that after Tyrod, but Allen is never going to process fast enough to make the throws top pocket passers make. 1
LFC24 Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, mattynh said: It is too early for all of them but Darnold and Mayfield are ahead of Allen clearly. Not sure on Rosen. Give Rosen 2-3 more weeks and he will make us regret not picking him. Arizona fans the other day were ecstatic that we got Allen instead of them they are in love with Rosen and the future of that team. and we are here wishing Allen would sit out the rest of the year for his own good.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said: I would like to see the Bills build an offense around his athleticism. Fans don't want to hear that after Tyrod, but Allen is never going to process fast enough to make the throws top pocket passers make. I'm hoping that the game slows down for him after this year to allow him to improve in all aspects where he's currently deficient. I agree that they certainly should take advantage of his athletic gifts as a key component of the offense.
Fred Clause Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said: The thing that has worried me the most so far with Allen is his lack of accuracy on short passes. That being said his throws on crossing routes have been mostly very accurate and a few have been amazing. I'd like to see him throw a deep ball within 5 yards of a receiver but I haven't seen too many if any close calls on deep balls. Most of the deep balls they have been having him make have gone to Benjerman, who is never open and is always blanketed by two players. Most would’ve ended up interceptions as Benjamin never fights for the ball.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, The Bills Blog said: How did I know that 26 was going to be in here trying to take over this post with Allen hate? Seriously, guy, come on. There's that ridiculous word "hate" when it comes to honest assessment of a Bills' QB. I used to hear the same foolishness regarding Peterman. Sad.
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 I don't know if he looks on par with this year's other rookies, but I know that he's very similar to the rookie performance of the top QB picked in each of the last 2 drafts: 2 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: You would be wrong on the Drops. Cle and Az have more drops than Bills and Jets have one less drop than Bills. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving wait so our guys don't drop the most balls? who'd have thunk it?
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games. 2
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I don't know if he looks on par with this year's other rookies, but I know that he's very similar to the rookie performance of the top QB picked in each of the last 2 drafts: thanks for sharing that again
Jobot Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 Most of us see him for what he is... a very raw undeveloped rookie talent. A very small minority of fans maybe is hitting the panic button. Maybe it just seems that group is large because they end up posting such 'hot takes'... He needs to improve, but it's week 7... and he's got about 16 more games to convince us that he's the guy.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games. Which is exactly why you take where he is right now as a snapshot assessment instead of a final verdict.
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