How much blame does Daboll deserve?

[All_Pro_Bills]

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

[ProcessAccepted]

Rookie QB and Nathan Peterman as your backup. Easily one of the worst WR units in the league. KB has a terrible work ethic. If you can ignore all that then sure Daboll deserves all the blame. 

[Reed83HOF]

Daboll has predominantly gone to half-field reads in every aspect of the passing game. He utilizes motion frequently to help Allen identify the coverage of man versus zone. Sometimes he will have Allen simply read whether the defense is in a one-high safety look or a two-high coverage. It’s a strategy that cannot be sustained long-term but, given the situation, is their best option.

 

Allen struggles to see the field and read coverages pre- to post-snap, and generally he lacks trust in his accuracy. All of those weaknesses have made the jobs of opposing defensive coordinators that much easier. If the Bills offense doesn’t get the coverage it expected, the chances of a play succeeding are slim. 

 

I often get asked why the offense is so bad and whose fault it is. Is it Allen? The lack of talent at the WR position? The scheme? The offensive line? The blame can rarely be put on one person or group on any given play.

 

On this third quarter play, none of the above are at their best. It’s third-and-4 and the Bills see man coverage again. Daboll has what equates to zone-beater concepts, but the Texans play man coverage. On the snap, RT Jordan Mills is quick in his kick-slide and DE J.J. Watt sees an overset so he drives inside. While Jones runs a sloppy route with a telegraphed cut runs a sloppy route, Holmes runs a deep dig and lets the DB drive him out of bounds. Allen, looking to escape as soon as he hits the top of his drop, now has half of the field to work with, only one real option and a spy linebacker in Benardrick McKinney — who is 6-foot-4 and can run the 40-yard dash in 4.66 seconds — bearing down on him. Allen tries to make a play, but it is nearly intercepted.

 

As you can see, the Bills offense’s margin for error is extremely small. Allen’s inexperience has limited the coaching staff’s ability to scheme the offense. If Daboll doesn’t get the coverage he and his pro scouts expected, Allen will struggle to work through progressions, hold onto the ball, tack a sack or run it. The Texans even went so far as having their pass rushers dive inside, baiting Allen to escape the pocket where their spy linebackers were waiting. The more defenses play man coverage against Allen, the more success it appears they will have. The Bills don’t have receivers that can separate consistently when one-on-one, and they can’t sustain drives if the QB consistently looks to run.

The Bills offense is in a real bind when Allen is in the lineup, and it’ll be interesting to see what changes they make if and when he returns.

 

https://theathletic.com/591843/2018/10/16/bills-film-room-how-the-texans-swallowed-up-josh-allen-and-gave-a-blueprint-to-the-rest-of-the-league/

[Bob in NoCal]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 Even though other OCs have had success calling plays from up in the booth, I agree that a move down to the sidelines for Daboll might be a good idea at this point. 

[ProcessAccepted]

20 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 

This is a good article on the pros and cons of where the OC should call the game. However I do want to point out it's not detailed enough to include sucking down beers or eating hot dogs ?

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2016/11/23/13730592/2016-nfl-season-falcons-chargers-eagles-coaches-kyle-shanahan

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The reason I don't believe this is because it's Brian Daboll.  He isn't Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.  Add him to the list of mediocre Bills offensive coordinators.

 

His usage, or lack thereof, of Shady all but confirms my suspicions.

 

 

 

Last year it was Rick Dennison, this year it is Brian Daboll. Bills fans love to blame coordinators rather than the truth which is that the players suck. 

[jrober38]

Very little.

 

He's hamstrung by the worst starting QB in the NFL.

 

When Peterman went in, guys were all of a sudden getting open. Peterman can't consistently get them the ball, or read a defense, but the scheme is getting guys open on downfield throws, the overwhelming issue has been that Josh Allen has happy feet and isn't willing to stand in the pocket when he feels pressure. 

 

Daboll is stuck having to hide a complete liability at the QB spot, so it's hard to judge him too much.

 

Our #1 problem right now on offense has been Allen's inept play. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by jrober38

[hondo in seattle]

8 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

 

How do you know what Daboll expects?  We can only judge his actions, not his intentions.   He might be giving Allen a lot of chances to throw the ball - with minimal expectations of immediate success - to develop his skills for next year.  

 

I agree with you that the run designs aren't creative.    

 

However, I will add that poorly skilled players can make any OC or DC look bad.  Mistakes stand out more when plays are unsuccessful.  When skilled players make good plays out of nothing, the coordinator doesn't get blamed for the initial nothing.  

[brianthomas]

3 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

It's McD's fault...

 

Why bring in a guy who runs the EP system, which is tougher to grasp than most others, when you are intent on taking a kid who struggles with reading presnap coverage?

Where do u get that the EP system is tougher to grasp than most others? From everything i've read & heard, the whole reason the system was created in the 1st place was because it was easier for players to grasp than the others.

The E-P system specifically, is a method of conceptualizing the plays in a streamlined manner so that the offensive players are able to memorize the plays easily.

The system is built so that players can spend less time worrying about their assignment and more time focused on applying the concept from an array of formations and personnel groupings.

Idk if youre just  pulling stuff out of thin air, but maybe go to summer school for some extra help: https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/15/12188564/summer-school-erhardt-perkins-offense-belichick-weis-parcells-brady-patriots

[hondo in seattle]

35 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 

If strategy is the problem, you go to the sky box where you can see the game better.

When execution is the problem, you get on the sideline where you can coach and impact your players.

 

I agree that Daboll made the wrong call.   This offense needs a leader, and you can't be a leader of men when you're not even with your men.   

[Bring it]

Daboll is at least part of the problem! Lack of talent and a rookie QB with no veteran to help is also part of it. Anderson just got here. I realize that Daboll is still trying to figure out how to use Allen the best, but that doesn’t always mean we have to force Josh to throw 40+ times a game. 

The Green Bay game was a game that IMO Daboll missed on the game plan! Pettine’s defense are known for pressure from exotic blitzes and great success against rookie QBs! They also are weak between the tackles! You attack them down the middle. We even have a back that can do it. Ivory is a very physical back! Why Daboll didn’t push the run more I don’t understand. He seemed to realize that against the Titans! I’m willing to give him more time to figure out his players and how to use them. He better hurry  as far as this season is concerned!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, QCity said:

 

Is is even possible to suck as the OC for the Pats or Alabama? He lasted 2 years in Cleveland, 1 year in Miami, 1 year in Kansas City, and 1 year in New England before he was demoted to TE coach. Four teams in five years certainly doesn't sound like success. Talent still may be the biggest issue, but Daboll isn't helping the cause.

 

?? Daboll was never an OC in New England. He was brought back in 2013 as an "offensive assistant", a title which can mean anything but does not, in New England, mean anything close to "OC"

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

36 minutes ago, Bob in NoCal said:

...I agree that a move down to the sidelines for Daboll might be a good idea at this point. 

I'm not sure about that.  Coach McDermott seems the type willing and able to deliver a 'Moe Howard caliber dope slap' to an offensive coordinator who appears to be having troubles.

[Bangarang]

When you take a guy who’s been bad every chance he’s been an OC in the NFL and give him very little to work with the results shouldn’t be a surprise.

 

McD and BB deserve majority of the blame for this offense being what it is. Daboll gets his share of blame too but I can’t be too harsh on a guy that had no real history of producing good offenses at the pro level. 

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We'll have to disagree here.   They aren't good, but from what I've seen he's been very slow to figure out what they can do well and utilize them to best advantage.

 

I'm not sure some of these guys really do anything well.

[ctk232]

8 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

Like everything you're seeing this season, he plays a role. You have to remember this is his first year back in the NFL as well, and while he's been here before, the game is always changing and it's a new team. First year would always be rougher, even with Brady. While he's had very suspect play calls, and his route trees seem uninspired, his blame in this regard is only so warranted.

 

A greater issue is he doesn't have the QB he needs to run his offense. This is not a comment to say Allen isn't the answer, just that Allen is exactly who he is: raw, unrefined, and inconsistent. That's fine, but don't expect an offense to be able to do much when it's most important piece is raw, unrefined, and inconsistent. There are plays where we have receivers/tight ends open and Allen misses his reads or focuses on the rush - it's going to happen, but be mindful of where the ire gets directed.

 

Add in the WR corps of lost misfits, in which only Zay seems to be standing out, and a JV OL and you haven't exactly been set up for success. As with others, I'll reserve my judgment on Daboll in full until after this year and more of our offensive woes have been addressed, though I would like to see him do more to develop Allen.

Edited October 16, 2018 by ctk232

[MAJBobby]

Are we still in the Blame everybody BUT McDermott phase?

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

San Francisco loses their starting QB and their backup hangs 30 on the Packers last night, what is our excuse? San Francisco is on a 3rd string RB at this point?

And the difference is an experienced top 5 OC vs an OC who has never had a better than 25th offense with different QB's over a few years. Now Daboll could get better over time, It's just that him developing a rookie while attempting to learn and improve at his own job is the problem. 

 

The best offensive player on the 2018 Buffalo Bills is LeSean McCoy and 61 attempts over 5 games is showing that he is being underutilized and the game has been on the rookie QBs shoulders far too often. He is a rookie QB and shouldn't need to carry the offense all alone.

 

12 penalties for 124 yards is inexcusable and that is on coaching. Two screwups on special teams. One, a WR who has great difficulty catching passes shouldn't be on receiving kickoffs, punts. Two, a blocked punt simply shouldn't happen. Again, this is on coaching and the special teams coach stinks. The Bills OC stinks, the run game coordinator/line coach stinks. 

 

McD hired a very experienced NFL DC in Frazier, so why hire a bunch of bums to run the offense? 

[Buddy Hix]

45 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

Where do u get that the EP system is tougher to grasp than most others? From everything i've read & heard, the whole reason the system was created in the 1st place was because it was easier for players to grasp than the others.

The E-P system specifically, is a method of conceptualizing the plays in a streamlined manner so that the offensive players are able to memorize the plays easily.

The system is built so that players can spend less time worrying about their assignment and more time focused on applying the concept from an array of formations and personnel groupings.

Idk if youre just  pulling stuff out of thin air, but maybe go to summer school for some extra help: https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/15/12188564/summer-school-erhardt-perkins-offense-belichick-weis-parcells-brady-patriots

I can't remember if it was a podcast or maybe on WGR but Ledyard was discussing how the EP system nowadays presents a ton of options for the QB, which can be more difficult for a QB like Allen who struggles with reading coverage and decision making.

 

The summer school article briefly touches on that, "It wasn't until Charlie Weis joined those same Patriots decades later that the modern iteration of the system came to be. Instead of using a simplified passing system to minimize the duties of the QB, Weis used it to massively enhance the multiple options and possibilities within a given play."

[Xwnyer]

9 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

He sucks has no idea what a modern nfl offense should look like