Happy Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: You time machine Wilson to 1988 and he'd do fine. He's a heck of an athlete, durable, and has been good from Day One in the NFL. No. Russel Wilson, along with the majority of the QBs playing today would get destroyed if they played in 1988. 2
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Methinks you didn't watch much football back then. QBs weren't protected, hardly at all. They took vicious, sometimes career-ending hits. Yeah and methinks you don't understand the skill level of the league is constantly rising. You don't think Julio Jones makes it in an era where grabbing is allowed? You don't think JJ Watt could hack it in Reggie White's day, you don't think Patrick Mahomes could ball in 1987? The level of athlete today is good enough to play in any era.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: No. Russel Wilson, along with the majority of the QBs playing today would get destroyed if they played in 1988. Like I said, I don't think he watched much football back then. Kelly took some hits that would kill a guy nowadays. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: No. Russel Wilson, along with the majority of the QBs playing today would get destroyed if they played in 1988. The great ones can play in any era. The 2015 Seattle Seahawks could go toe to toe with the 1991 Buffalo Bills. The 2017 Patriots could go toe to toe with the 1989 49ers.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said: Yeah and methinks you don't understand the skill level of the league is constantly rising. You don't think Julio Jones makes it in an era where grabbing is allowed? You don't think JJ Watt could hack it in Reggie White's day, you don't think Patrick Mahomes could ball in 1987? The level of athlete today is good enough to play in any era. When helmet-to-helmet hits were encouraged, where receivers could be grabbed, where QBs could have their heads and knees targeted, or be body-slammed, Yeah...I don't think a guy like Julio Jones would have made it.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: When helmet-to-helmet hits were encouraged, where receivers could be grabbed, where QBs could have their heads and knees targeted, or be body-slammed, Yeah...I don't think a guy like Julio Jones would have made it. 6'3" runs a 4.39, dominated college football and has dominated the NFL. Calvin Johnson at 6'5" and 4.35 would have struggled against 5'10" 185 pound press corners from the 1980's. What a joke. No you're right, only guys like Chris Carter and Andre Reed were tough enough. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: 6'3" runs a 4.39, dominated college football and has dominated the NFL. Calvin Johnson at 6'5" and 4.35 would have struggled against 5'10" 185 pound press corners from the 1980's. What a joke. No you're right, only guys like Chris Carter and Andre Reed were tough enough. You're free to disagree, but you're wrong. Defense is ACTIVELY discouraged in today's NFL.
Happy Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: The great ones can play in any era. The 2015 Seattle Seahawks could go toe to toe with the 1991 Buffalo Bills. The 2017 Patriots could go toe to toe with the 1989 49ers. Not if the game is played in 1988-1991 era rules. It has nothing to do with talent. It does have everything to do with the BS rules overprotecting the QB. I'm not saying the modern Seahawk and Patriot teams are devoid of talent, which they're not, I am saying that the offense has a distinct advantage due to the NFL wanting to generate points and protect the QBs and WRs. You can't tell me that Ronnie Lott, Lester Hayes, Bill Romanowski and the like would see more playing time today vs suspension time with these rules in place.
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: You're free to disagree, but you're wrong. Defense is ACTIVELY discouraged in today's NFL. Two things can be true: defense can be actively discouraged AND athletes can be better now than they were 30 years ago (and they are definitely better now).
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: You're free to disagree, but you're wrong. Defense is ACTIVELY discouraged in today's NFL. I think you've got the nostalgia rose colored glasses on. It was always better in the past. While I can't stand the rules of today, I disagree that the best in today's game could not compete with the best of 1980. No way do I believe that. No way does Richard Sherman struggle in 1985, or Zeke Elliott get too beat up, or Antonio Brown not able to get open, or Drew Brees struggle to complete passes.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: Two things can be true: defense can be actively discouraged AND athletes can be better now than they were 30 years ago (and they are definitely better now). Yes, of course. Perhaps I'd be more impressed with peoples' numbers these days if they were achieved against any kind of credible opposition. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Not if the game is played in 1988-1991 era rules. It has nothing to do with talent. It does have everything to do with the BS rules overprotecting the QB. I'm not saying the modern Seahawk and Patriot teams are devoid of talent, which they're not, I am saying that the offense has a distinct advantage due to the NFL wanting to generate points and protect the QBs and WRs. You can't tell me that Ronnie Lott, Lester Hayes, Bill Romanowski and the like would see more playing time today vs suspension time with these rules in place. And you can't tell me that Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman couldn't play in 1986 because it was "too physical". Or that Julio Jones couldn't get open because he was being pressed or held at the line.
zow2 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, warrior9 said: When you look at our team/FO/ etc, etc... They came in with a pile of you know what as a team. They came off of Rex/ Whaley regime that strapped this team against the cap and left it talentless. They took that team to the play-offs with none of us expecting it (while completely gutting it in 1 year).... while trying to fix the cap issues. Say what you want about Beane and McDermott but those that refuse to see the cap as an issue of talent acquisition are simply not seeing the big picture..... money = ability to acquire high end talent and/ or system role players. Where did they spend the available money? Defense... and that defense (which is essentially all Beane and McDermott acquired players) is absolutely balling out. I think this coming off-season and draft are going to define this regime. They absolutely have to address the offense in every aspect. I do believe Daboll has called some absolutely atrocious games this year, yet we are still competing. I sincerely hope that his inability to call an effective NFL game does not hinder the growth of Josh Allen. Think about where we are as a team and the cornerstones we have.... Seemingly top 3 secondary (with a second year CB that is most likely a future All-Pro) A 20 year old stud at MLB (and Milano growing into a nice player) A young DT that has played well above where he was drafted and has been very impressive A left tackle that is young and improving with every game A young first round QB (and this regime believes it's their guy) 80+ Million in cap space next year 10(i believe) draft picks We have many many important pieces in place for a promising future..... I think we need to be patient and look for the growth of this team and players throughout the rest of this year. Just my .02.... If Josh Allen has had a couple of 250 yard games, there would be minimal negativity. People are irritable and negative since he doesn't look like the other rookie QBs in terms of his QB abilities outside his running.
Happy Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Yes, of course. Perhaps I'd be more impressed with peoples' numbers these days if they were achieved against any kind of credible opposition. Exactly. Which is why it is ridiculous to say that Brady is GOAT, for example. He might be the greatest of his playing era, but I suspect he would get demolished in 1990. Marino might be GOAT if he played today. People don't think about this.
row_33 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Like I said, I don't think he watched much football back then. Kelly took some hits that would kill a guy nowadays. Jim was one tough man, took brutal beatings out there
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, warrior9 said: When you look at our team/FO/ etc, etc... They came in with a pile of you know what as a team. They came off of Rex/ Whaley regime that strapped this team against the cap and left it talentless. They took that team to the play-offs with none of us expecting it (while completely gutting it in 1 year).... while trying to fix the cap issues. Say what you want about Beane and McDermott but those that refuse to see the cap as an issue of talent acquisition are simply not seeing the big picture..... money = ability to acquire high end talent and/ or system role players. Where did they spend the available money? Defense... and that defense (which is essentially all Beane and McDermott acquired players) is absolutely balling out. I think this coming off-season and draft are going to define this regime. They absolutely have to address the offense in every aspect. I do believe Daboll has called some absolutely atrocious games this year, yet we are still competing. I sincerely hope that his inability to call an effective NFL game does not hinder the growth of Josh Allen. Think about where we are as a team and the cornerstones we have.... Seemingly top 3 secondary (with a second year CB that is most likely a future All-Pro) A 20 year old stud at MLB (and Milano growing into a nice player) A young DT that has played well above where he was drafted and has been very impressive A left tackle that is young and improving with every game A young first round QB (and this regime believes it's their guy) 80+ Million in cap space next year 10(i believe) draft picks We have many many important pieces in place for a promising future..... I think we need to be patient and look for the growth of this team and players throughout the rest of this year. Just my .02.... All valid points. It's a very fine line in the NFL between winning and losing, and I really feel like we are at the cusp of something great if we can get the O talent differential and scheme to catch up with the D or at least, be able to move the chains on a consistent basis. There's an undeniable grit around this team (certain exceptions to this would be the effort of some on the O side), who are not easy outs for anyone at this point. It hurts just how close we came to stealing another tough one on the road away from the favorites. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, row_33 said: Jim was one tough man, took brutal beatings out there Yeah and Russell Wilson is a better athlete all around. 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Exactly. Which is why it is ridiculous to say that Brady is GOAT, for example. He might be the greatest of his playing era, but I suspect he would get demolished in 1990. Marino might be GOAT if he played today. People don't think about this. Brady has started for 18 straight years. In an era where Coaches have instantaneous film to dissect, computers to analyze statistics and trends, in an era with money to fund larger scouting departments and Front Offices. Ridiculous to say he's the GOAT? No doubt Marino would be awesome nowadays. No doubt. But Tom Brady has led how many comebacks? Has what TD to Interception ratio? Has been elite for how long? And all of that is swept away with a flick of the wrist because its was more physical back then. Okay. 1
row_33 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Yeah and Russell Wilson is a better athlete all around. . So !@#$ing what? does he play the piano better as well? 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: And all of that is swept away with a flick of the wrist because its was more physical back then. Okay. Yep, a fundamentally harder...and BETTER game back then, sorry. 1 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, warrior9 said: When you look at our team/FO/ etc, etc... They came in with a pile of you know what as a team. They came off of Rex/ Whaley regime that strapped this team against the cap and left it talentless. They took that team to the play-offs with none of us expecting it (while completely gutting it in 1 year).... while trying to fix the cap issues. Say what you want about Beane and McDermott but those that refuse to see the cap as an issue of talent acquisition are simply not seeing the big picture..... money = ability to acquire high end talent and/ or system role players. Where did they spend the available money? Defense... and that defense (which is essentially all Beane and McDermott acquired players) is absolutely balling out. I think this coming off-season and draft are going to define this regime. They absolutely have to address the offense in every aspect. I do believe Daboll has called some absolutely atrocious games this year, yet we are still competing. I sincerely hope that his inability to call an effective NFL game does not hinder the growth of Josh Allen. Think about where we are as a team and the cornerstones we have.... Seemingly top 3 secondary (with a second year CB that is most likely a future All-Pro) A 20 year old stud at MLB (and Milano growing into a nice player) A young DT that has played well above where he was drafted and has been very impressive A left tackle that is young and improving with every game A young first round QB (and this regime believes it's their guy) 80+ Million in cap space next year 10(i believe) draft picks We have many many important pieces in place for a promising future..... I think we need to be patient and look for the growth of this team and players throughout the rest of this year. Just my .02.... totally agree , but too many people had unrealistic expectations with this team and somehow think a regime change will makes us better when in reality it would set is further back. I still believe we should have surrounded Allen with talent this year instead of upgrading the defense but I know they will do it this offseason and we will just have to be patient in the process. 1
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