John from Riverside Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Sure, but the QB is the most important player on the offense and our offense is the worst in the league. The offense needs better players at a variety of positions for sure, but I don't think it's any surprise that we're last in pass yards, last in scoring and last in QB Rating. You are correct that the QB is the most important player You are correct that at present we have the worst offense in the League It does not change the fact that if playmakers do not make plays on balls, and when they have the ball in their hands NONE of it matters....Allen cannot catch and score with it for them to.
Norcalbillsfan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Is it really fair to judge a rookie QB, that has hands down the worst WR core in the league, and arguably the 2nd worst line in the league, not much talent at TE. And a new OC. Peyton, luck, Watson, and many other QBs came into bad teams but I dont think any rookie QB has been asked to perform with such little talent surrounding him.
John from Riverside Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, VW82 said: I didn't see improvement either. Ask yourself this: how many of Allen's completions today came in the pocket? He seems to only be able to make a play once the play breaks down, and frequently he's just taking off and running before there's any real pressure. He's actually gone backwards with his pocket presence. Shocker that you would agree with this.....just shocker....you two should get a room
Matt_In_NH Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Of course. But on two separate plays, Allen threw it down the field 30-40 yards right on the money and the WR caught it. I thought the one that counted was great because he threw in rhythm down the field with accuracy. but not sure about the first one. It was a busted play
targetweight185 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I'm sorry but I didn't see it. He was 10 of 17 for 84 yards and put 6 points on the board through almost 3 quarters of play. He also got sacked twice for a loss of 16 yards. This is inept offensive production. We just can't pass the football like 90% of the teams in the NFL. I wasn't expecting a star QB off the get go, but this is the worst offense I've ever witnessed in my life as a Bills fan. Stick to soccer. I don't think football's your thing. If you expected a star QB off the get go, that's crazy. 2 2
Kelly the Dog Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, mattynh said: I thought the one that counted was great because he threw in rhythm down the field with accuracy. but not sure about the first one. It was a busted play Not sure what more you want out of a long pass that hits the WR in two hands and he catches it. You're tough.
Matt_In_NH Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: Not sure what more you want out of a long pass that hits the WR in two hands and he catches it. You're tough. I want good decisions. If I call your all in with 2-7 and get lucky on the flop was my call correct?
VW82 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Shocker that you would agree with this.....just shocker....you two should get a room What the heck, man!? Lol. It's fine to disagree, but you seem to be taking/making this personal. Why? People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours. How am I spewing BS by mentioning that KB refused to work out with Allen pregame, as reported by the media and confirmed by McD? It would seem to be relevant that he has WRs turning on him in a discussion about Allen's progress and his ability to succeed with this group. Let me ask you, what progress are YOU seeing with him? Why don't you join the discussion and make some points instead of just trolling posters and taking personal shots. Edited October 15, 2018 by VW82
NFLBighits Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha.
djdaddykool Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, NFLBighits said: Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha. What I do not like of note recently is his tendency to bail and run so quickly. He needs to learn to hang in the pocket and develop the feel to move within it to buy time to make throws. JMHO. But it is an obvious tendency that has to be fixed. 6 minutes ago, VW82 said: What the heck, man!? Lol. It's fine to disagree, but you seem to be taking/making this personal. Why? People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours. How am spewing BS by mentioning that KB refused to work out with Allen pregame, as reported by the media and confirmed by McD? It would seem to be relevant in a discussion about Allen's progress and his ability to succeed with this group. Let me ask you, what progress are YOU seeing with him? Why don't you join the discussion and make some points instead of just trolling posters and taking personal shots. Yeah I don't understand the intolerance of differing opinions here. It seems to me that as a long suffering Bills QB watchers we are MORE than qualified to see warning signs. I am NOT saying he won't make it, but the current structure of personnel and lack of good QB coaching makes me very nervous about the situation. 3
Norcalbillsfan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, mattynh said: I didn’t do that. Reread what I wrote. I have it on dvr. He just sat there with no emotion when the camera went to him after the td to Jones. Alot of guys that are injured go to the locker room and stay there, you rarely see a starter that gets hurt and is jumping up and down excited on the sidelines. He sees it at his team that he wants to lead, hes a competitor, hes pissed if hes not on the feild. I'm ok with that. 1
VW82 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, djdaddykool said: Yeah I don't understand the intolerance of differing opinions here. It seems to me that as a long suffering Bills QB watchers we are MORE than qualified to see warning signs. I am NOT saying he won't make it, but the current structure of personnel and lack of good QB coaching makes me very nervous about the situation. I think the personnel and coaching issues are being a little overblown tbh. If there were never any guys open or the pocket was repeatedly breaking down we might have a problem, but that just isn't the case. My biggest concern is that Allen doesn't appear to be making any progress. Where are the positive signs? Where's the big play ability? We got a glimpse of that in the Vikings game (which they clearly no showed), but this was the third straight game where he's done virtually nothing. That can't all be on the coaches and supporting cast. At some point good QBs make something happen. I'm fine with Allen making mistakes as long as he learns from them. But he's repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and there's no play making on his part to offset them. Edited October 15, 2018 by VW82 1
Norcalbillsfan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Estro said: When I watch Josh Allen I see Blaine Gabbert, which is the player he reminded me of coming into the draft. He has the same 2 fatal flaws: Wildly Inaccurate, which IMO, is not fixable & Drops his eyes and stares at the rush when he feels pressure. Gun to my head, my take right now.....hes going to be a massive flop, as many smart people predicted he'd be. Gabbert had better O line, waaaaay better receivers, better TE imo. And from the begging you could see gabbert didnt have it. I'm not saying allen is the future, but everyone is judging allen when he's probably has the worst supporting cast (except shady) for a rookie in recent memory.
78thealltimegreat Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 The Texans broadcast pointed out that watching Allen the Bills by design where giving him 1 read and if that wasn’t open to use his legs he only threw 17 passes when he got hurt people want so much to call this kid a bust but you can see his talent he just needs time
NoSaint Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Offer stands....if you got any guts at all you will take me up on it. If I come up with more on target throw then off target ones you leave....not pissing and moaning....just be gone. Imma sleep on coming up with terms, but be prepared for a completely arbitrary challenge to your existence on this board tomorrow. If you refuse I’ll mock you for being scared but if you accept it’ll be a totally ludicrous standard and a super easy to fudge process to boot. 1
starrymessenger Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Allen has elite physical traits for playing the all important position. He is also very intelligent so in principle and with the benefit of experience he has the cognitive ability to eventually make the right reads pre and post snap and to make good decisions as a result. He is extremely raw and has not landed in the best situation to be sure. JMO but I think he will be good, even very good, if the game slows down for him. If that happens he should become more comfortable, should display greater poise in the pocket and show more consistency in his throwing mechanics and therefore improved accuracy. There is a reasonable chance of all of that happening if the action slows down for him. Whether the game slows down for him has everything to do with whether he has and can nurture that very special and inate ability that franchise guys have to process quickly in real time. It's not something that can be measured in a combine drill. You can only see it in the results. You can be very intelligent, like he is, and not possess that ability. You can otherwise be a dumbass and still be able to do it. It's really a unique attribute. If Allen has it things will work out eventually. If he doesn't, or if he is inherently and incorrigibly skittish because he can't process quickly the things that present themselves to perception on a football field, he will fall short of expectations and perhaps even bust. It is far too early to know whether he can get there or not. By the end of next year we should have a much better idea whether that faculty lives in the recesses of Josh Allen's brain or is a dead zone (as it is for most mortals).
uticaclub Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Being at the game you thought they benched him right after his best throw of the game, a long completion? That called back for holding.... 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Open your eyes and watch the game next time. meanwhile the golden boy of KC just threw a bad pick to end the half in NE. Young QBs learn with time. To say Allen can't make the throws needed after seeing him out it right in guys several times today is the height of nonsense. As low as thinking Winston was going to be the next great QB? Did open my eyes and all I see is a bust 2 hours ago, NFLBighits said: Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha. It’s just that he’s never been good at any point in his career and when he looks like trash it’s not a positive thing
NFLBighits Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, uticaclub said: That called back for holding.... Did open my eyes and all I see is a bust It’s just that he’s never been good at any point in his career and when he looks like trash it’s not a positive thing He's never looked like trash to me yet and I said yet so the verdict is still out there and he has all the tools you want in a quarterback, he just needs to slow down mentally a tad but when the game slows down for him and surround him with a nice cast we all can sit back and enjoy as the most important thing he has going is heart as it shows he puts it all out there and sometimes He's struggling processing the coverages but once he gets through that he will be fine! Yes trust the process and no Joshing about it! ?
billsfan89 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Allen's ability to read a defense and work out of the pocket is not very good at the moment. That was the other big non accuracy related issue Allen had coming out of college. Although to be fair to Allen I don't know how much of his current level of play is related to scheme/coaching, lack of reviving talent, subpar O-line play, or his own short comings. It's probably a mix of all factors combined. But once again Raw rookie looks Raw. It's been 5 starts in this baptism by fire, he is 2-3 as a starter and has only had one game (the Vikings game) where he looked really good. The rest of the games Allen has looked poor and like a player that is going to need a lot of development. Overall I am a bit disappointed in the way that McBeane and this organization have handled the QB position and the offense in general. I get trading Tyrod on the last year of his deal for a solid but unspectacular return, I understand the cap situation and the trade up for talent made compromising parts of this roster a reality necessary to complete a more long term build, but I can't understand how this regime has set up it's biggest investment (Allen) up for failure. Even the Daboll coaching decision might not be the worst decision (Although I certainly did not understand the hire) but how can this team have it's veteran starter behind you highly invested rookie QB be Nathan Peterman? How did they get fooled by him twice, how did they not learn that being good in the pre-season is not indicative of future success especially when the guy who is good in the pre-season has looked like hot garbage in the regular season the previous year. How could you trade AJ McCaron (a QB who probably is nothing more than a high end backup but certainly serviceable) when your only other option in front of a rookie QB is Nathan !@#$ing Peterman. This regimes obsession with him has to be one of the worst decisions they have ever made.
Fadingpain Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 hours ago, targetweight said: Stick to soccer. I don't think football's your thing. If you expected a star QB off the get go, that's crazy. Did you miss the part where Jrober38 specifically stated he did not expect a star QB off the get go?
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