Allen not showing progress

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, Iamkrgr said:

Poor talent around him. Poor throws on his part. How many times have we seen an easy throw at the receivers feet? He is far too inaccurate. 

 

Allen wouldn't have been able to make that TD pass today. 

I told my girlfriend we dont win today without Peterman and we dont lose without peterman. I'm going loopy

Edited October 15, 2018 by Agent 91

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

You’re talking like he’s halfway through his 3rd season.

 

Glad you bailed on the “many had him as a 4th rounder” thing though.

 

Every advanced scouting report that analyzed data and ignored the fact that he's 6'5, 240 said he should be nothing more than a developmental mid to late round pick.

 

So far Allen has looked as advertised, and is far and away the worst starting QB in the league right now.

[Success]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Every advanced scouting report that analyzed data and ignored the fact that he's 6'5, 240 said he should be nothing more than a developmental mid to late round pick.

 

So far Allen has looked as advertised, and is far and away the worst starting QB in the league right now.

That simply isn’t true.

[bouds]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

For every guy like Goff who got significantly better after year 1, there are at least 5 guys who didn't get better and went on to be complete busts. 

 

Allen might be Goff, or he might be EJ Manuel, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Paxton Lynch, Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Johnny Manziel, Jake Locker, Christian Hackenberg, Geno Smith, Jimmy Clausen, Brian Brohm, etc, etc, etc. 

 

Most QBs don't work out. The vast majority of QBs who were terrible year 1 don't go on to be successful franchise players. 

Everyone always likes to point out the outlier, when they don’t want to believe the most likely outcome/event is much more probable.  Humans tend to be overconfident in that way, the event that will benefit them is much more likely to happen in their minds even though probability suggests otherwise.  Can it happen, yeah it can.  Is it likely, no.

Edited October 15, 2018 by bouds

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Give Allen a Lee Evans and lets talk later. 

Let's give him a Goodwin or Watkins. What about John Ross. Teams will start to figure out we only have straight line burners. We need our qb to be able to use real wrs. 

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

That simply isn’t true.

 

In what sense?

 

Are you saying he's not the worst starting QB in the league?

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I never did. I always said and will continue to Maintain the Bills did EJ wrong. 

 

But then again making the same development mistakes with Allen 

You get a trophy for this post

[Success]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

In what sense?

 

Are you saying he's not the worst starting QB in the league?

What do you mean “in what sense?”

 

In the sense that “every major scouting report” didn’t have him as a late rounder.  I don’t think even one did.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, targetweight said:

Allen's biggest strength is his ability to throw the ball down the field. He has the potential to be better than anyone in the NFL for 20+ yard throws. His short passing game leaves a lot to be desired and will have to improve if he wants to be an elite QB. We all knew he was a project that would take a couple years to fulfill his potential. So far, he's been about on schedule given the circumstances. Even the great Peyton Manning threw 28 int's in his first year.

 

Allen made a few phenomenal throws today. One was called back. One was for zero yards that showed ridiculous arm strength with Watt pushing him back.

 

Calling to draft another QB is crazy. If he hadn't been injured we probably win and JA is 3-1 as a starter. The most important thing is to win, not completion percentage.

 

This is how I see it to. 

 

Reading this thread I hear a lot of folks claiming he's not accurate but except for his first pass his accuracy seemed fine.  The throw across his body into the middle of the field to Shady was actually quite good.  Sure, most times this would be an ill advised pass but McCoy was wide open and ball was delivered with surprising velocity given the contortions Allen was in when he let the pass go.

 

And the problem with the short passes today wasn't Allen's accuracy it was that the Texans seemed to anticipate those plays.  They blew up a couple of screens and it was clear that they wanted to force us to throw down field. 

 

The idea that the Bills should draft another QB with their 1st round pick next year is insane.  Such a move would set the franchise back years. 

 

 

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

What do you mean “in what sense?”

 

In the sense that “every major scouting report” didn’t have him as a late rounder.  I don’t think even one did.

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

[Lfod]

I never wanted Josh Allen to start this season. I always said that the team had no foundation for a rookie QB to succeed. What I mean by foundation is having successful offense before you install rookie QB.

 

It was my position on the subject. I just don't think Josh Allen can develop or be successful in that environment. Now he is dinged up and that only leads me to believe in the potential of more injury.

 

So I don't want to talk his development. He survived and has 2 wins and can make athletic plays. I would like to see him come into a far better situation before I judge. This offense is so bad that I don't think Tom Brady makes it work. I'm serious. The offense is holding the team back. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Lfod

[Success]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

And again - simply not true.

[Matt_In_NH]

Definitely not showing alot right now.  Definitely a lesson that arm strength means nothing in and of itself....like more qualities it takes to be a great QB.    You need a whole bunch of skills, not one or two.   Right now he is who we got so the way I see it, give him every opportunity to learn and grow.  If he busts out, get another one and take another swing.  Dont stop til you get a great QB

[TheElectricCompany]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

 

Every statistical model was down on Josh, that bit is indisputable, but I don't recall seeing any reputable site saying he was that bad. 

The worst I saw was that he graded as a 2nd rounder.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And the problem with the short passes today wasn't Allen's accuracy it was that the Texans seemed to anticipate those plays.  They blew up a couple of screens and it was clear that they wanted to force us to throw down field. 

 

Exactly. And when we started throwing downfield Allen was getting into a groove. Then he got injured. I don't know how anyone watches today's game with any kind of prediction about his future. He is still adjusting to NFL game speed and that adjustment will come with ups and downs. We'll have a much better idea of where he is at at the end of the season. Right now it's anybody's guess.

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

If he was going to develop and progress, he would have got better as his college career went on. The guy should have never been drafted. He lacks what it takes to be good in today's NFL. 

Might want to slow down or change your screen name.

[george c]

He is either not allowed, or not capable of making the same passes his draft partners are making every Sunday. Not encouraged yet. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I wouldn’t even be upset if this kid was making dumb decisions and going through a learning curve in the nfl. I wouldn’t mind if the reason our offense was struggling was because of rookie mistakes. This kid sucks at throwing the ball near the players on his own team. You aren’t going to learn that. He is not good at passing footballs. What are we learning? It’s just insane to me that people think this has been anything except terrible. Allen should have been redshirted for the entire season. The guy is nowhere near ready to play mentally and physically he has shown nothing to be excited about. People just want him to be good so they ignore what’s right infront of their eyes...the kid sucks right now. It really is that simple.

[OldTimer1960]

3 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Every statistical model was down on Josh, that bit is indisputable, but I don't recall seeing any reputable site saying he was that bad. 

The worst I saw was that he graded as a 2nd rounder.  

Statistics without context are garbage.  The basis of statistics is having a sound sample of data.   Mixing data from incomparable data sets is never right.

[cgg716]

30 years on this planet. I’ve seen 8 all time great transcendent QB

Aikman

Young

Favre

Roelisthberger

Manning

Brady

Brees

Rodgers

 

Half those guys struggled plenty around poor teams early, judgements off of that are why Brees became a Saint. You need time and teamattes, Wait until Allen gets those things