billsredneck1 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 16 hours ago, peterpan said: Trade mCcoy for foles. It makes too much sense. If he walks as a fa we get a third round comp pick. We can tag him for a few years if Allen does develop. Sign him long term if he works out this needs to happen today! i would rather give up a 2nd....which would basically be a late 1st.
Big Gun Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, DougFlutie7 said: He is. It’s not even close. Until he's not
DCOrange Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 9 hours ago, Rob's House said: I was thinking the same thing. Admittedly, the whole discussion is a bit premature wrt Allen, but at the end of EJ's rookie year anyone with eyes knew that he was too awkward to become a franchise guy. Allen definitely looks smoother, and is playing with an inferior supporting cast, but by year's end they should have a pretty good idea of what they have in him. If the outlook is grim, I'd hate to pass on the next Derek Carr because of a commitment to the sunk cost in the next EJ. If you want the next Derek Carr, you could probably just trade for him based on the reports out of Oakland. At any rate, I give it about a 5% chance that this front office drafts another QB in the first two rounds this offseason (unless Allen suffers a catastrophic injury).
SydneyBillsFan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 If we could give Tyrod 3 years with an above average O-line then surely Allen deserves at least 2 with a poor one before we lay the boot into him.
Rob's House Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, DCOrange said: If you want the next Derek Carr, you could probably just trade for him based on the reports out of Oakland. At any rate, I give it about a 5% chance that this front office drafts another QB in the first two rounds this offseason (unless Allen suffers a catastrophic injury). I don't think they will either, nor do I want them to at this point. I'm speaking more generally to the dogmatic view that you never draft QBs high two years in a row.
JM57 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Rosen’s 0 Td’s yesterday would have helped us win all the games ??♂️??♂️ Rosen had 240 yards yesterday. Allen has 166 the last two weeks.
Bangarang Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 We might take a developmental guy but I wouldn’t expect this regime to draft one high.
Teddy KGB Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, JM57 said: Rosen had 240 yards yesterday. Allen has 166 the last two weeks. And has won zero games. Do you have a point to make ? We should draft a qb who can pass for 240 yards and throw zero td’s ? Edited October 15, 2018 by Teddy KGB
oldmanfan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 All the rookie QBs are learning. Mayfield had a tough day yesterday. Darnold has ups and downs. Rosen the same. Allen may have a longer learning time given he came from a smaller program. But they all have a lot to learn.
Dopey Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 16 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Agreed from Bills standpoint. Roseman hasn’t shown a willingness to deal him though and who would the Eagles have behind Wentz then? Let's sweeten the deal by adding Nate the Great?!?! 1
jrober38 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bangarang said: We might take a developmental guy but I wouldn’t expect this regime to draft one high. If things don't improve between now and week 17 they might not have a choice. This is shaping up to be a similar situation to how we handled EJ Manuel. He had a mediocre rookie season and faded badly down the stretch. Instead of bringing in competition, we went "all in" on EJ, trading the farm for Sammy Watkins. 4 weeks into the next season he was benched for Kyle Orton. If Allen stays as is, they can't go all in on him the same way Whaley went all in on EJ. They definitely need to bring in a real plan B who can actually challenge for the starting gig.
Bangarang Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: If things don't improve between now and week 17 they might not have a choice. This is shaping up to be a similar situation to how we handled EJ Manuel. He had a mediocre rookie season and faded badly down the stretch. Instead of bringing in competition, we went "all in" on EJ, trading the farm for Sammy Watkins. 4 weeks into the next season he was benched for Kyle Orton. If Allen stays as is, they can't go all in on him the same way Whaley went all in on EJ. They definitely need to bring in a real plan B who can actually challenge for the starting gig. I don’t expect things to just magically improve this year. I think the Allen we see now is the Allen we are going to get the entire year. People will still blame this guy and that guy for Allen’s shortcomings and hype up his development and growth for next season. We’ll get to a point where the excuses will run dry and we can start this process all over again. Seeing as how this regime handled the QB situation the first time, I wouldn’t want them to have another crack at it. They can ride it out with Allen until the inevitable happens. Then we can talk about having to rebuild under another regime and how it’ll take years to undo what BB and McD did.
oldmanfan Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Rosen yesterday: 21/31 for 240 (11.4 yards/completion). No TD's 1 pick. Mayfield yesterday: 22/46 for 238 yards (10.8 per completion). 1 TD and 2 picks. Allen: 10/17, 84 yards (8.4 per completion; 0 TDs and 0 picks Darnold: 24/30 for 288 (11.7 per completion) Average yardage per completion lower for Allen, Darnold played well and the other three struggled. This is what happens with rookie QBs. 2
87168 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said: If we could give Tyrod 3 years with an above average O-line then surely Allen deserves at least 2 with a poor one before we lay the boot into him. the OL was not above avg, and on top of that TT was not a taken 7th overall. ...needless to say, I think most people expect a little more out a 1st rounder, 7th overall pick. I'll say this once more. I don't place any blame on JA. he has a lot of learning ahead, but that's to be expected from a rookie. the infraction falls on the Clap N Bean. Edited October 15, 2018 by 87168
jrober38 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I don’t expect things to just magically improve this year. I think the Allen we see now is the Allen we are going to get the entire year. People will still blame this guy and that guy for Allen’s shortcomings and hype up his development and growth for next season. We’ll get to a point where the excuses will run dry and we can start this process all over again. Seeing as how this regime handled the QB situation the first time, I wouldn’t want them to have another crack at it. They can ride it out with Allen until the inevitable happens. Then we can talk about having to rebuild under another regime and how it’ll take years to undo what BB and McD did. I totally agree. Allen has shown me nothing that suggests he's going to be a successful NFL QB. He was a no body in high school, a mediocre prospect at JUCO, and a middle of the road QB in the Mountain West Conference. He's a big, strong, mobile, smart guy who unfortunately has very little skill when it comes to actually playing quarterback and passing the football. He's not a natural passer, and he's shown next to nothing that suggests he can consistently read a defense. If his primary read isn't open, his instinct is to run. When there's pressure around him, his eyes consistently drop which is a critical flaw with QBs. The issue is that I think McDermott is actually a really good coach. What he's done with the defense has been outstanding, and I think he's good at identifying problems on tape and correcting them in practice. The OL has been getting better despite featuring hardly any talent, and the defense looks like one of the best units in the league despite featuring limited high end talent. The problem is in the front office and particularly with the decisions they've made at QB. Going into this season with only Peterman and Allen on the roster was inexcusable. It's been a complete disaster through 6 weeks. Peterman can't play, and Allen has looked lost out there. As all the scouting reports said, he needed at least a year or two on the bench learning before he'd have to play, and we had him on the field halfway through the first game. They've shown that they don't know what a good QB looks like, and as you said why would you let these guys have another shot at picking another guy?
Dopey Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Gordio said: I agree with this. I am willing to give Allen a chance, it has been only 5 games, but....the thing that concerns me is that Allen is who I thought he was. He was not very good in college. Look at his stats last year @ Wyoming. The only game he threw for over 300 yards was against Gardner Webb. I believe he threw for like 60 yards against Oregon & 94 yards against Hawaii, who had a horrible defense. His completion % was in the mid 50s his two years a s a starter. The accuracy and ball placement are just not there. Coupled that with the fact that he doesn't really read defenses well & given the fact what the Bills traded up to get him & this is going to set the franchise back for years. I just can't believe time & time again that the pro's that are paid to evaluate overlook production in college & accuracy in college & are mesmorized because the guy could throw it 90 yards in the air. I hope this works out but I have serious doubts it will. Watching Allen play, I don't know how anybody could not. From what I can tell, he had new wrs last year. He had a decent 2016 season, but 2017 was with all new receivers except maybe 1. That will affect any qb. You don't get nearly the time in college as the nfl to get used to your new guys.
Rocbillsfan1 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: And has won zero games. Do you have a point to make ? We should draft a qb who can pass for 240 yards and throw zero td’s ? Hey dummy, we didn’t need an amazing performance out of a qb. We needed borderline avg in order to win. 240 yards passing mixed with our amazing defense and run game wins the game. But Allen fits the “culture”
Teddy KGB Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said: Hey dummy, we didn’t need an amazing performance out of a qb. We needed borderline avg in order to win. 240 yards passing mixed with our amazing defense and run game wins the game. But Allen fits the “culture” So we can win a game with zero td’s and 1 int from Rosen. Interesting math Edited October 15, 2018 by Teddy KGB
Dopey Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 The skins were ridiculed for taking Cousins in the same draft they took RG. It worked out for them. Having said this, if Allen shows improvement, still draft a qb somewhere to bolster the position, along with a vet. You're always one high ankle sprain away from starting someome else.
Rocbillsfan1 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, Teddy KGB said: So we can win a game with zero td’s from Rosen. Interesting math Sure passings tds aren’t the only way to get tds. Field goals also help. How good was Allen again yesterday?
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