oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said: The issue (one of them) is getting rid of players without an adequate contingency plan and lack of effort in securjng credible alternatives. You can reconcile away individual players such as Darby and Dareus but they chipped away at the roster. Goodwin, Woods and Watkins all together were very good. We should have retained at least two of them. They would have undoubtedly helped Allen and eased his learning. This point cannot be debated against. Ok. Keep saying the same thing. I would have liked to see Sammy still here. Woods from different reads wanted to get back to the West coast. And Goodwin showed little if anything when he was here.
John from Riverside Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Ok. Keep saying the same thing. I would have liked to see Sammy still here. Woods from different reads wanted to get back to the West coast. And Goodwin showed little if anything when he was here. ppl hang onto the past too much....what we need to do is replace the talent level of those players
Figster Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: The issue (one of them) is getting rid of players without an adequate contingency plan and lack of effort in securjng credible alternatives. You can reconcile away individual players such as Darby and Dareus but they chipped away at the roster. Goodwin, Woods and Watkins all together were very good. We should have retained at least two of them. They would have undoubtedly helped Allen and eased his learning. This point cannot be debated against. Absolutely, good posting,
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: ppl hang onto the past too much....what we need to do is replace the talent level of those players Right. They have like 90 million and 10 picks to do so 1
John from Riverside Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: Right. They have like 90 million and 10 picks to do so Agreed....but you have to hope their their offensive talent evaluation will allow them to bring in the RIGHT players for that money and draft picks...... I dont even think they are even playing their best OG......
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Agreed....but you have to hope their their offensive talent evaluation will allow them to bring in the RIGHT players for that money and draft picks...... I dont even think they are even playing their best OG...... I think they will be significantly improved in offense. And I think we could see a new O line coach
BADOLBILZ Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, JimKellyTryouts said: Can't be a debacle if we don't do anything positive to begin with *insert Bruce-Smith looking head tapping meme* That's what Josh himself said, though. He's just trying to stay positive and getting the **** off the field while he isn't ready to play and without much around him to help him out, I view it as a blessing of sorts, too. The "career-ending" injury schtick here is a little over-dramatic, and to go back in hindsight and say you could predict an injury coming...what exactly does that accomplish? Injuries can happen to anyone, anytime. I'm not supporting management one bit for the way this position has been handled and am as pissed off as the next guy, but come on dude. He said potentially career ALTERING.........which a UCL sprain is for a young QB.........so you are kinda' outraged about the take for no reason. Allen has taken a beating. The situation has been handled terribly......it's blatantly obvious....anyone who can't agree with that at this point is simply being obstinate. 32 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: ppl hang onto the past too much....what we need to do is replace the talent level of those players They need to replace talent because they gave it away............and they haven't replaced it. John we get it...........no matter what any current regime or ownership does you do not believe there should be any accountability.......what's done is done...........therefore they can do no ACTUAL wrong in your eyes. That's why your opinion isn't debatable..........you are just a cheerleader..........you only criticize AFTER the player or exec is gone. Edited October 18, 2018 by BADOLBILZ
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: They would have undoubtedly helped Allen and eased his learning. This point cannot be debated against. it most definitely can. Watkins has done jack squat since leaving, just like he'd done in his final year and ahalf here. Woods left as a FA, not much you can do about that.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 4 hours ago, GG said: Dareus was a net negative for the run game, but probably a net positive for the "process" For all the crap that McDermott gets for hap clappy talk, he did get the team to buy in and turn a winning record with a subpar cast. I don't know if they offered Goodwin a contract, but they definitely made a strong push to bring Woods back. In the end, they totally underestimated his market value. I am not sure why this eludes so many folks here but the Dareus trade was just McDermott trying to grab more power that he hadn't earned. He got carried away.........hence my point about needing editing. Dareus not being as committed to McD's process made McD feel threatened.......which is why he dumped him even when Dareus was a key cog for him. And if you disagree with that go back and see some of the Cover 1 stuff on Dareus......he wasn't rushing the passer anymore but his work stacking and shedding blows away Star on his best day. The problem with dumping good players to grab power is that it's short sighted...........because losing also undermines a HC's power. McD made a choice and he's been losing ever since. Not saying Dareus was the only reason but it was the last straw for that roster. And yeah.......6-10 is pretty standard for a Bills HC but the stats behind that 6-10 look a lot more like those of a much worse team. I hope McD figures it out.........I think he started his backpedal this past offseason and taking dumb chances on guys like Corey Coleman has proven the McBeane folly. 1
thebandit27 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I am not sure why this eludes so many folks here but the Dareus trade was just McDermott trying to grab more power that he hadn't earned. He got carried away.........hence my point about needing editing. Dareus not being as committed to McD's process made McD feel threatened.......which is why he dumped him even when Dareus was a key cog for him. And if you disagree with that go back and see some of the Cover 1 stuff on Dareus......he wasn't rushing the passer anymore but his work stacking and shedding blows away Star on his best day. The problem with dumping good players to grab power is that it's short sighted...........because losing also undermines a HC's power. McD made a choice and he's been losing ever since. Not saying Dareus was the only reason but it was the last straw for that roster. And yeah.......6-10 is pretty standard for a Bills HC but the stats behind that 6-10 look a lot more like those of a much worse team. I hope McD figures it out.........I think he started his backpedal this past offseason and taking dumb chances on guys like Corey Coleman has proven the McBeane folly. I think it started even earlier than that--hence the Benjamin trade. This offseason was definitely a continuation though.
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I am not sure why this eludes so many folks here but the Dareus trade was just McDermott trying to grab more power that he hadn't earned. He got carried away.........hence my point about needing editing. Dareus not being as committed to McD's process made McD feel threatened.......which is why he dumped him even when Dareus was a key cog for him. And if you disagree with that go back and see some of the Cover 1 stuff on Dareus......he wasn't rushing the passer anymore but his work stacking and shedding blows away Star on his best day. The problem with dumping good players to grab power is that it's short sighted...........because losing also undermines a HC's power. McD made a choice and he's been losing ever since. Not saying Dareus was the only reason but it was the last straw for that roster. And yeah.......6-10 is pretty standard for a Bills HC but the stats behind that 6-10 look a lot more like those of a much worse team. I hope McD figures it out.........I think he started his backpedal this past offseason and taking dumb chances on guys like Corey Coleman has proven the McBeane folly. Crap. Unadulterated pure crap. And nonsense besides. Dareus is the one that was showing up late to mettings, games, etc. He tried to work with him - remember the pictures of him with Dareus one on one in the practice field? Had maybe the most professional guy on the team in Kyle right next to him? Yet Dareus would not straighten up. The highest paid guy on the team, and he would not straighten up. So they traded him. And brought in Star this year. And have you checked how the D is doing lately? The truly laughable thing here is to say since Dareus McD has been losing ever since. Maybe you missed it but they made the playoffs last year. 2
Behindenemylines Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I am not sure why this eludes so many folks here but the Dareus trade was just McDermott trying to grab more power that he hadn't earned. He got carried away.........hence my point about needing editing. Dareus not being as committed to McD's process made McD feel threatened.......which is why he dumped him even when Dareus was a key cog for him. And if you disagree with that go back and see some of the Cover 1 stuff on Dareus......he wasn't rushing the passer anymore but his work stacking and shedding blows away Star on his best day. The problem with dumping good players to grab power is that it's short sighted...........because losing also undermines a HC's power. McD made a choice and he's been losing ever since. Not saying Dareus was the only reason but it was the last straw for that roster. And yeah.......6-10 is pretty standard for a Bills HC but the stats behind that 6-10 look a lot more like those of a much worse team. I hope McD figures it out.........I think he started his backpedal this past offseason and taking dumb chances on guys like Corey Coleman has proven the McBeane folly. This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've read in a while. No substance and 101 psychology. Go back to community college and retake the class please. Ughh total garbage 1
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Crap. Unadulterated pure crap. And nonsense besides. Dareus is the one that was showing up late to mettings, games, etc. He tried to work with him - remember the pictures of him with Dareus one on one in the practice field? Had maybe the most professional guy on the team in Kyle right next to him? Yet Dareus would not straighten up. The highest paid guy on the team, and he would not straighten up. So they traded him. And brought in Star this year. And have you checked how the D is doing lately? The truly laughable thing here is to say since Dareus McD has been losing ever since. Maybe you missed it but they made the playoffs last year. Dareus was 15 minutes late for being three hours early for stretching at a preseason game he wasn't playing in. 1
GG Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I am not sure why this eludes so many folks here but the Dareus trade was just McDermott trying to grab more power that he hadn't earned. He got carried away.........hence my point about needing editing. Dareus not being as committed to McD's process made McD feel threatened.......which is why he dumped him even when Dareus was a key cog for him. And if you disagree with that go back and see some of the Cover 1 stuff on Dareus......he wasn't rushing the passer anymore but his work stacking and shedding blows away Star on his best day. The problem with dumping good players to grab power is that it's short sighted...........because losing also undermines a HC's power. McD made a choice and he's been losing ever since. Not saying Dareus was the only reason but it was the last straw for that roster. And yeah.......6-10 is pretty standard for a Bills HC but the stats behind that 6-10 look a lot more like those of a much worse team. I hope McD figures it out.........I think he started his backpedal this past offseason and taking dumb chances on guys like Corey Coleman has proven the McBeane folly. I don't know why you would reach the end conclusion when the team made the playoffs after all the "dubious" moves that McDermott & Beane pulled last year. Do you honestly think the team would have rallied in the end after the Chargers disaster if they didn't believe in the coach? I don't see a football team much differently from other field where talent has to work within a team. There's usually far more resentment among the employees towards the talented person who's a lazy POS than to the boss who's trying to keep him in line. Usually the bosses who let that behavior slide are the ones who lose respect. And if that talented employee produce enough to overcome his bad behavior, the team is better off without him. I also don't understand why you are miffed at a coach making certain that he's the ultimate alpha male in that locker room. That's his job. Can you envision any player under Parcells or Belichick acting like Dareus and lasting on the roster for more than a few games? 1
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Dareus was 15 minutes late for being three hours early for stretching at a preseason game he wasn't playing in. That means he was late. Also late to meetings if reports are correct. And so on. 1
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, GG said: I don't know why you would reach the end conclusion when the team made the playoffs after all the "dubious" moves that McDermott & Beane pulled last year. Do you honestly think the team would have rallied in the end after the Chargers disaster if they didn't believe in the coach? I don't see a football team much differently from other field where talent has to work within a team. There's usually far more resentment among the employees towards the talented person who's a lazy POS than to the boss who's trying to keep him in line. Usually the bosses who let that behavior slide are the ones who lose respect. And if that talented employee produce enough to overcome his bad behavior, the team is better off without him. I also don't understand why you are miffed at a coach making certain that he's the ultimate alpha male in that locker room. That's his job. Can you envision any player under Parcells or Belichick acting like Dareus and lasting on the roster for more than a few games? Lawrence Taylor and Aaron Hernandez? 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: That means he was late. Also late to meetings if reports are correct. And so on. You don't get rid of one of your best players for that. Especially for what we got in return. McD was sending a message to his team; an unnecessary one. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Lawrence Taylor and Aaron Hernandez? You don't get rid of one of your best players for that. Especially for what we got in return. McD was sending a message to his team; an unnecessary one. He was not one of the best players. And a discipline problem. And your highest paid player can't be that guy. True best players like a Jordan or Byrd or Brady bust their ass as hard in practice as in games. They demand the best from themselves and their teammates. Do you honestly think Dareus was that kind of guy? You mention Taylor. Taylor had a ton of off field issues but when he was in the field there was never a question that he was killing himself. And I'l just sit here and have a little laugh about Hernandez. 1
dave mcbride Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: That means he was late. Also late to meetings if reports are correct. And so on. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Dareus is a straight-up good player. He has played quite well for Jax, actually. I get why the Bills traded him, and when you compare the results with his presence on the team and what followed his departure, it's pretty much a wash. My larger point is that sometimes, a culture needs to tolerate a few dissenters/wild men who happen to be extremely talented. Ask Al Davis and Parcells (who flat out said that Lawrence Taylor could follow a different set of rules because of his talent). Christ, Jim Schwartz has dealt with these sorts of guys his entire coaching career and has always gotten through to them (Dareus, Suh, Haynesworth, and now Michael Bennett, who looks like he's going to lose it every game). Basically, you've gotta gamble a little with unruly talent. That's an issue facing McDermott because the number of choirboys who are really effing good at positions like DT, DE, and WR is pretty small. Don't get me wrong -- when it comes to defense, McDermott clearly knows what he's doing (as does Schwartz). 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He was not one of the best players. And a discipline problem. And your highest paid player can't be that guy. True best players like a Jordan or Byrd or Brady bust their ass as hard in practice as in games. They demand the best from themselves and their teammates. Do you honestly think Dareus was that kind of guy? You mention Taylor. Taylor had a ton of off field issues but when he was in the field there was never a question that he was killing himself. And I'l just sit here and have a little laugh about Hernandez. Not sure of your point here. Dareus was pretty good last year and in 2014 was arguably the best DT in the league. He was ridiculously misused by Ryan. 2
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Dareus is a straight-up good player. He has played quite well for Jax, actually. I get why the Bills traded him, and when you compare the results with his presence on the team and what followed his departure, it's pretty much a wash. My larger point is that sometimes, a culture needs to tolerate a few dissenters/wild men who happen to be extremely talented. Ask Al Davis and Parcells (who flat out said that Lawrence Taylor could follow a different set of rules because of his talent). Christ, Jim Schwartz has dealt with these sorts of guys his entire coaching career and has always gotten through to them (Dareus, Suh, Haynesworth, and now Michael Bennett, who looks like he's going to lose it every game). Basically, you've gotta gamble a little with unruly talent. That's an issue facing McDermott because the number of choirboys who are really effing good at positions like DT, DE, and WR is pretty small. Don't get me wrong -- when it comes to defense, McDermott clearly knows what he's doing (as does Schwartz). I differ on your opinion on Dareus last year. He was the highest paid player and did not come close to earning it. Also look at other comments above. 1
dave mcbride Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: I differ on your opinion on Dareus last year. He was the highest paid player and did not come close to earning it. Also look at other comments above. I looked at them all. Check out his performance for Jax, which comprised over half the season last year, and also look at his performance this season. Also, there was this game: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-jacksonville-jaguars-10-buffalo-bills-3
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