Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Like I said. He is everything McDermott preaches about. Just listen to his post game interview about God. Make no mistake, I like that. Tua and Jalen Hurts are saying the same thing in Alabama, and I prefer this way over getting in trouble. That said, one needs to be able to compete at the NFL level. They traded away a kid who has proven capable of being at least a decent QB and kept Peterman. Unbelievable.
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: Make no mistake, I like that. Tua and Jalen Hurts are saying the same thing in Alabama, and I prefer this way over getting in trouble. That said, one needs to be able to compete at the NFL level. They traded away a kid who has proven capable of being at least a decent QB and kept Peterman. Unbelievable. Because Peterman beat him out in preseason.
HappyDays Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, K-9 said: I’d like to hear Beane explain what he meant when he said “A.J. isn’t who we thought he was.” Was he referring to performance? Attitude? Be interesting to know. Likely both. Since he supposedly didn't care to mentor Allen. What really threw a wrench in their QB plans is they had to convince Anderson to come here. They've wanted him since free agency. There weren't really other options out there. Moore is done with football, McCown went back to the Jets, Bradford signed an insane contract. With the benefit of hindsight we should have signed Bridgewater but we turned our backup into a draft pick 35-40 spots lower than the pick the Jets got for Bridgewater so it really wouldn't have made a huge difference. Less than halfway through the season they got the backup QB they wanted all along anyways. They aren't on the hot seat because Peterman started a few quarters in a rebuild season. 1 1
K-9 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Likely both. Since he supposedly didn't care to mentor Allen. What really threw a wrench in their QB plans is they had to convince Anderson to come here. They've wanted him since free agency. There weren't really other options out there. Moore is done with football, McCown went back to the Jets, Bradford signed an insane contract. With the benefit of hindsight we should have signed Bridgewater but we turned our backup into a draft pick 35-40 spots lower than the pick the Jets got for Bridgewater so it really wouldn't have made a huge difference. Less than halfway through the season they got the backup QB they wanted all along anyways. They aren't on the hot seat because Peterman started a few quarters in a rebuild season. Agree entirely. Especially about the benefit of hindsight. Another wrench was Peterman outperforming McCarron in training camp and preseason; he clearly “won” the competition, sad to say. The courtship of Anderson is reminiscent of our pursuit of Orton in ‘14.
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, GG said: Your point was that the only reason that Bills kept Peterman over McCarron was McD's infatuation with Peterman. That wasn't the only reason. Peterman actually looked better than McCarron in camp How many trade offers do you think the Bills received for Peterman?
YoloinOhio Posted October 18, 2018 Author Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Likely both. Since he supposedly didn't care to mentor Allen. What really threw a wrench in their QB plans is they had to convince Anderson to come here. They've wanted him since free agency. There weren't really other options out there. Moore is done with football, McCown went back to the Jets, Bradford signed an insane contract. With the benefit of hindsight we should have signed Bridgewater but we turned our backup into a draft pick 35-40 spots lower than the pick the Jets got for Bridgewater so it really wouldn't have made a huge difference. Less than halfway through the season they got the backup QB they wanted all along anyways. They aren't on the hot seat because Peterman started a few quarters in a rebuild season. It’s pretty clear after listening to DA talk that the Bills were trying to go into the season with JA and DA, similar to what the panthers did with Cam. DA indicated he was considering going back to the panthers and was waiting it out and wasn’t happy with their plan of trying to see if the young kid would beat him out in TC. He didn’t want to go through all of TC with Carolina and then get cut. He casually said “some things didn’t work out.” So of course the bills weren’t his first choice but he still wanted to continue his career. Just happened later than they wanted it to. 1
blitzboy54 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: It isn't a 5 year rebuild. It's 3 years. Last year they shed players that didn't fit what they were trying to do. That left them with $50 million in dead cap this year, and they went all out to get the franchise QB. Traditionally this would be year one of the rebuild but this regime had a delayed start. Next year they have tons of cap space and a full draft to rebuild the offense. Next year we should be much more competitive and by 2020 we should be serious contenders. That is obviously the plan and Pegula signed on to it. He isn't stupid. They didn't sneak $50 million in dead cap under his nose. There is no way he is already thinking about firing people because we aren't competitive when nearly 1/3 of the cap space is being used on players that aren't on the team. The one mistake this regime has made is the receiving corps. They undervalued Woods, Zay Jones was not a good 2nd round pick, and Benjamin has been extremely underwhelming. I can't fault them for the offensive line because they lost 2 starters to sudden retirement. Everything else they've done is fine. I couldn't care less about the backup QB. Josh Allen is the only thing that matters to their future now. If he develops, they will have no problem building an offense around him next year and they will be here a long time. If he doesn't, they will be on the hot seat in 2020. It's as simple as that. This is exacerbated by the fact that the traded up for him. They gave up picks to go up. These guys spend draft picks like Whaley. Very few guys are worth multiple picks. It's disconcerting. 1
GG Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: How many trade offers do you think the Bills received for Peterman? Could also be the greater fool theory as well. McCarron was the last FA QB that signed (maybe Bridgewater was, but he had a serious medical question) Since we're dealing with hindsight, McCarron was the last available option in the FA crop, yet all of the FA QBs have flopped so far. We don't even know that Bridgewater can withstand one hit to his knee in a real game. It was clear that Beane was not going to compete in the open market for Cousins, Bradford & Keenum (wise in retrospect). I also think that they didn't expect Anderson & Moore to hang it up. That left them with McCarron, who was worse than expected. The real surprise to me was that they didn't add another QB to the practice squad after preseason or now.
GunnerBill Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, JohnC said: Gunner, Get over your Peterman trauma. It is haunting you because you yourself are fixating on it. He's a backup who is now replaced by a pedestrian grizzly veteran. The problem/issue that you deliberately miss is that the real mistake was bringing in McCarron instead of another mediocre backup. What you fail to note is that Peterman, the qb that you loathe, beat out McCarron when they were competing. My advice to you is to change your focus (debilitating fixation) to the OL and receiving corps. Those are bigger issues. I didn't like McCarron either. I'm better than the Bills when it comes to spotting a loser at QB. So I didn't miss that. The reason they brought McCarron in and didn't pay more to get one of the better FA options was because they had too much faith in Nathan Peterman's ability to compete. And he is one of the worst NFL Quarterbacks of all time. They thought a player about whom that is an accurate description could compete. That is worth worrying about regardless of what you think. Edited October 18, 2018 by GunnerBill 1
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Looking over what's happened with the Buffalo Saber's over the last few years I doubt the owners are that impatient so they become furious in the next few weeks. We Bills fans might become that way...at least some might. Looking over what happened with Peterman, AJ McCarron and now Derek Anderson from what Steve Tasker stated on his show was that the Bills were interested in signing Anderson at the same time they were looking to sign AJ McCarron. Anderson was contemplating different option's with other teams before he finally agreed to sign with Buffalo and that was mostly to be a mentor to Allen. I kind of doubt he thought he would be put in the position of starting. Looking at Andersons history with Carolina and his relationship with Cam Newton and how he mentored Newton. I can now see why the team FO waited to sign a veteran QB they knew would be okay with being a backup and could actually have a value to mentor Allen. As far as Peterman in concerned I can see why this offensive coaching staff was fooled by Peterman into thinking he could be the starter while Allen develops. Trent Edwards also managed to fool Chan Gailey by working hard, trying hard, doing everything right in practice. Peterman is also young and inexperienced and the thinking must be that he will get better with more development time. My take is the main problem right now is that because McD is defensive minded he must be relying on his offensive coaching staff for input on these QBs and clearly like Chan Gailey they have no clue. Gailey was extremely lucky that Fitz was on the team because he stated in training camp that Brian Brohm, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards were all about equal in ability...which they weren't...not even close. Fitz also stated that nobody ever worked with him on his mechanics, setup, delivery before QB coach David Lee worked with him before the 2012 season. Lee did manage to screw up Fitz that year. So Gailey was no QB guru and I highly doubt from what I've seen so far from Brian Daboll, David Cully are either. If anyone becomes furious I think it might be McD at some point over the next few weeks as he watches Daboll do to Anderson what he did to Allen is forcing him to carry the entire offense by passing all game long. Anderson should be okay if not asked to do too much and that I mean by mostly handing the ball off to Shady and managing the game with 3rd and short situations. I think McD wants to win games and hates seeing his defense get screwed over by a bad offensive like they were against the Texans. If all these offensive penalties continue with players killing drives because they don't know where to line up, false start, hold. Even good veteran QBs would have difficulty overcoming 12 penalties for 104 yards that kept killing drives. So, If anything happens it might be McD replacing Daboll with Terry Robiskie after the next few weeks if things don't get corrected. The difference in the Trent fooling Gailey situation is that it is understandable. Trent had the arm. He could make all the throws. He shined in practice and preseason doing things that translate to the regular season. What he couldn’t do is handle the pressure literally and figuratively. Which became evident in regular season (it’s arguable that Chan should have seen that from previous seasons tape. I never thought Trent was good either). Nate lacks the physical ability to play in this league. He NEVER showed that in practice or preseason because it doesn’t exist. People here knew it to be true. McBeane should have seen it.
John from Riverside Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The difference in the Trent fooling Gailey situation is that it is understandable. Trent had the arm. He could make all the throws. He shined in practice and preseason doing things that translate to the regular season. What he couldn’t do is handle the pressure literally and figuratively. Which became evident in regular season (it’s arguable that Chan should have seen that from previous seasons tape. I never thought Trent was good either). Nate lacks the physical ability to play in this league. He NEVER showed that in practice or preseason because it doesn’t exist. People here knew it to be true. McBeane should have seen it. Beane blew this one....but has made several good decisions..... At least Peterman was only a 5th round pick and not a lot is invested in him. I still maintain that I am not positive the bills want to win this year.....this is just my opinion but even though Pegula has totally shown the willingness to spend they do not want to make the mistake they did handing out contracts to guys that are no longer with the team and carrying those contracts....I really think they want to do most of their biulding through the draft. I think we will be active in this next year's free agency.....we have to be....but I dont think Beane wants to be give players way more then their worth to come here (which he might have to do on a couple of them) I think he probably has some guys targeted and the rest will come from the draft.
transplantbillsfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, GG said: Again, that's a totally separate issue. Peterman outplayed McCarron. That is not the same thing as what they should have done to start the season. 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Because Peterman beat him out in preseason. What absolutely everyone should know by now as Bills fans from the 2015, 2017 and 2018 preseason is that fans and, unfortunately, coaches (at least McDermott in 2018) do a piss poor job assessing the QB position in those games. Peterman threw more than an almost-pick-6 per game in every single game in the preseason... it's the same basic NFL throw that he can't make. If our coaches were smart in assessing QBs, they wouldn't have been fooled by the preseason Peterman mirage. When I said all offseason Allen was most likely to be the starter, it was because Allen was simply more talented than McCarron and we invested so much in him and McCarron simply wasn't all that experienced to give him some kind of massive advantage. I didn't give Peterman a shot because I didn't think McDermott would be so foolish. I was wrong.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Beane blew this one....but has made several good decisions..... At least Peterman was only a 5th round pick and not a lot is invested in him. I still maintain that I am not positive the bills want to win this year.....this is just my opinion but even though Pegula has totally shown the willingness to spend they do not want to make the mistake they did handing out contracts to guys that are no longer with the team and carrying those contracts....I really think they want to do most of their biulding through the draft. I think we will be active in this next year's free agency.....we have to be....but I dont think Beane wants to be give players way more then their worth to come here (which he might have to do on a couple of them) I think he probably has some guys targeted and the rest will come from the draft. Well, that didn't address the post you replied to. Beane didn't draft Peterman, nor did he decide to play him. That is all McDermott. So we have to worry to some degree if McDermott is the right guy to be making these decisions about offense. What we don't know is what Beane thinks about Peterman. Hopefully, God help us, he just let his coach go with it this early in their relationship even if he disagreed with it. Otherwise, we may be in trouble with these guys regardless of McD's clear understanding and coaching of defense.
MAJBobby Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Once healthy he needs to be back behind center 1
Jerome007 Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: Once healthy he needs to be back behind center Yes! I was shocked he could have missed all of this season AND THE NEXT with the operation! WTH kind of horror is that? The sooner he's back the better And yes, words can be cheap, but again he says all the right things. It shows he has a very good mindset and mental toughness. Those are very good traist to have obviously. But even more so as a NFL QB.
dave mcbride Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, K-9 said: It’s not just the preseason games, though. Every practice rep is broken down and scrutinized in the classroom afterward. I suspect McCarron didn’t fare well in that regard. I’d like to hear Beane explain what he meant when he said “A.J. isn’t who we thought he was.” Was he referring to performance? Attitude? Be interesting to know. It would be interesting, but the larger issue when passing judgment on this sort of thing is that Peterman wasn't who they thought he was either. I question their acumen in this area.
John from Riverside Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Well, that didn't address the post you replied to. Beane didn't draft Peterman, nor did he decide to play him. That is all McDermott. So we have to worry to some degree if McDermott is the right guy to be making these decisions about offense. What we don't know is what Beane thinks about Peterman. Hopefully, God help us, he just let his coach go with it this early in their relationship even if he disagreed with it. Otherwise, we may be in trouble with these guys regardless of McD's clear understanding and coaching of defense. He didnt draft Peterman...but he also didnt bring in anyone else (except for AJM) for competition. At the end of the day...I would have liked to see Beane more aggressive here BUT here is the the BUT....if the plan was not to win because they are trying to draft in the blue chip rounds then this all make sense.
dave mcbride Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 7 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Ahem. Some of these guys left before Beane arrived so he does not get he lane for that. You may want to actually watch the Pats and Eagles D before talking about how great Gilmore and Darby are. Darby specifically I've see reports they won't pick up his fifth year. Dareus was a big tub of non-motivated goo when here. You can't have your highest player be that. And you may want to check two things: we made the playoffs without him, and with Star vs. him our D looks dominant right now. Goodwin was constantly injured with us. The others? Woods would have been nice to keep but he wanted to be back on the West coast. Glenn would have been nice to keep, but trading him put us in position to get our young QB. And I'd still like Sammy to be here even though he is the highest paid 4th receiving option in the league. Oh and spreading out cap hits? Rip the bandage off quickly or slowly. Next year a ton of cap money. My bet: a number of guys that may be a bit under the radar like Poyer was. Focus on O line, get a decent WR or two, and look out for the Bills. Darby was arguably the best player on the field against the Giants last week. He's pretty good. https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/17/eagles-cb-ronald-darby-named-to-pro-football-focus-week-6-nfl-team-of-the-week/
oldmanfan Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Darby was arguably the best player on the field against the Giants last week. He's pretty good. https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/17/eagles-cb-ronald-darby-named-to-pro-football-focus-week-6-nfl-team-of-the-week/ I read an si article by Breer. Thinks the Eagles will not try to sign him after this year. At any rate CB is hardly an issue right now.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I read an si article by Breer. Thinks the Eagles will not try to sign him after this year. At any rate CB is hardly an issue right now. The issue (one of them) is getting rid of players without an adequate contingency plan and lack of effort in securjng credible alternatives. You can reconcile away individual players such as Darby and Dareus but they chipped away at the roster. Goodwin, Woods and Watkins all together were very good. We should have retained at least two of them. They would have undoubtedly helped Allen and eased his learning. This point cannot be debated against.
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