BADOLBILZ Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Look, I’m no expert on qb elbow surgery and the necessity of it, but this season is a lost cause and he’s a long term investment. I make him right for the long term because that ligament in all likelihood will tear eventually. Yeah if it's torn get it done.
HappyDays Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, PIZ said: Did I read somewhere that this injury will never heal 100%? Maybe. 16 minutes ago, PIZ said: Is that accurate? No.
Uncle Joe Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Yikes - i worry about this given Allen’s unque high velo (best ever in nfl history, most likely) skill set. I’d get the surgery with a planned august return, but perhaps I’m overworrying. That said, as @BADOLBILZ knows, these never heal. Ever. You just hope they don’t tear more. Tommy John surgery is only 80% successful for pitchers. It is not a risk free surgery The other 20% never regain their pre-surgery form. Rest will allow the ulna to heal itself. It is why Dr. Andrews is recommending rest , not surgery. Oh - sliders, curves and screwballs are all tough on the ulna. Edited October 17, 2018 by Uncle Joe
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Has @Doc or @Mr. WEO offered any comments? Edited October 17, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan 1
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2018 Author Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: Tommy John surgery is only 80% successful for pitchers. It is not a risk free surgery The other 20% never regain their pre-surgery form. Rest will allow the ulna to heal itself. It is why Dr. Andrews is recommending rest , not surgery. Oh - sliders, curves and screwballs are all tough on the ulna. PRP (platlet rich plasma) injections will be used here, 3-6 weeks of treatment, rest, rehab and he will be healed. If his elbow doesn’t respond to treatment then surgery would be needed, but no reason to expect that he wouldn’t. PRP injections may be particularly beneficial in young athletes who have sustained acute damage to an isolated part of the ligament and in athletes unwilling or unable to undergo the extended rehabilitation required after surgical reconstruction of the ligament. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27552453/ Edited October 17, 2018 by YoloinOhio
Uncle Joe Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, YoloinOhio said: PRP (platlet rich plasma) will be used here, 6 weeks of treatment, rest, rehab and he will be healed. If his elbow doesn’t respond to treatment then surgery would be needed, but no reason to expect that he wouldn’t. Thanks for the info. The knife should be the last resort.
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: Tommy John surgery is only 80% successful for pitchers. It is not a risk free surgery The other 20% never regain their pre-surgery form. Rest will allow the ulna to heal itself. It is why Dr. Andrews is recommending rest , not surgery. Oh - sliders, curves and screwballs are all tough on the ulna. I don’t think curveballs are (see my link to the big ny times story on this earlier in the thread), but definitely agree about screwballs and to a lesser extent sliders.
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: PRP (platlet rich plasma) will be used here, 3-6 weeks of treatment, rest, rehab and he will be healed. If his elbow doesn’t respond to treatment then surgery would be needed, but no reason to expect that he wouldn’t. Yup, worked for tanaka but not others. Kinda like microfractute surgery - platelet treatment is about 50-50 or slightly less, IIRC.
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: PRP (platlet rich plasma) injections will be used here, 3-6 weeks of treatment, rest, rehab and he will be healed. If his elbow doesn’t respond to treatment then surgery would be needed, but no reason to expect that he wouldn’t. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27552453/ I would bet he gets ARPwave too 31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Welp. Bills. What's your 2019 draft QB board looking like? Underwhelming at this point
Uncle Joe Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: I don’t think curveballs are (see my link to the big ny times story on this earlier in the thread), but definitely agree about screwballs and to a lesser extent sliders. I'm just using my personal experience as my guide. The doorknob slider is harder on the elbow than the cut slider. ⚾ 1
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: Tommy John surgery is only 80% successful for pitchers. It is not a risk free surgery The other 20% never regain their pre-surgery form. Rest will allow the ulna to heal itself. It is why Dr. Andrews is recommending rest , not surgery. Oh - sliders, curves and screwballs are all tough on the ulna. PS - rest does NOT fix a tear. The question is to risk it and keep playing. Fyi, my son (now a freshamn college pitcher) had a ucl sprain last fall (stretch, not tear) and his surgeon operates on yankee players. We got the lowdown about what tears mean.
CommonCents Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: So this Doc nailed it from the beginning, but all anyone will remember was his tweet about the worst case scenario.
Uncle Joe Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: PS - rest does NOT fix a tear. The question is to risk it and keep playing. Fyi, my son (now a freshamn college pitcher) had a ucl sprain last fall (stretch, not tear) and his surgeon operates on yankee players. We got the lowdown about what tears mean. Well I wish I had your son's surgeon in my college years ( I mean that respectfully). Back in the day we didn't have no stinkin' pitch counts. Sure I messed mine up my sophomore year in college on a slider. Played another 6-7 years without issue other than my sophomore year.
Seventeen Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: So we're back to what should have been the original plan with this team. Play the vet (McCarron->Anderson) until week 13 until the Bills are out of playoff contention and then get Allen reps weeks 14-17.
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: Well I wish I had your son's surgeon in my college years ( I mean that respectfully). Back in the day we didn't have no stinkin' pitch counts. Sure I messed mine up my sophomore year in college on a slider. Played another 6-7 years without issue other than my sophomore year. That times story is great. Here it is again: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/sports/baseball/debate-grows-over-how-to-protect-young-pitching-arms.html my son’s arm is fine and rest worked. Edited October 17, 2018 by dave mcbride 2 1
BADOLBILZ Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Yup, worked for tanaka but not others. Kinda like microfractute surgery - platelet treatment is about 50-50 or slightly less, IIRC. Yeah Tanaka turned from a power pitcher to a nibbler to protect his tear though...........he's effective because most days he has excellent command of his pitches but he has no margin for error in the strike zone anymore wihout that 4 mph off of his fastball so he has days were he just gets tattooed. He's not entirely a success story for re-habbing a tear. 1
dave mcbride Posted October 17, 2018 Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah Tanaka turned from a power pitcher to a nibbler to protect his tear though...........he's effective because most days he has excellent command of his pitches but he has no margin for error in the strike zone anymore wihout that 4 mph off of his fastball so he has days were he just gets tattooed. He's not entirely a success story for re-habbing a tear. Yup, and Adam Wainwright is the cautionary tale of continuing to play with the partial tear. That said, Wainwright was lights out when he came back.
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