The House of Saud at it again (Khashoggi disappearance)

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

 

Go to the State Department web site and read all the statements and press releases. 

 

 

I'd rather follow the money. All Trump's ties to these thugs says a lot about why he kisses their butt. 

[The_Dude]

Haj, hajjing against other Haj’s, will always bring other hajjing Haj’s into it.  Every time. 

[Benjamin Franklin]

Saudi Arabia says he left. It will be trivial for the Saudi embassy to provide the footage of his departure to inquiring minds. 

 

Erdogan and MBS are a mess but the good news is that the SA embassy would have plenty of footage of the embassy entrances. 

 

Any evasion in providing said footage would be telling. Assume the footage angle is being pursued. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Benjamin Franklin

[Tiberius]

Well, I'm sure Donald Trump is more concerned about the first amendment rights than profits at his Saudi hotels 

[Wacka]

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

26 minutes ago, Wacka said:

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

This is correct.

[Benjamin Franklin]

19 hours ago, Nanker said:

Erdogan faked a coup attempt in order to purge his enemies.

 

MBS arrested women's-rights activists this year and some face beheading for protests. So this isn't a beauty contest between exemplary regimes. SA has long been the enemy of my enemy. In this case, MBS may have overplayed his hand.

 

This goes away if SA provides the footage of him leaving the embassy like they say he did. 

 

 

[Nanker]

28 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said:

 

MBS arrested women's-rights activists this year and some face beheading for protests. So this isn't a beauty contest between exemplary regimes. SA has long been the enemy of my enemy. In this case, MBS may have overplayed his hand.

 

This goes away if SA provides the footage of him leaving the embassy like they say he did. 

 

 

Agreed on all points. 

 

In the never-ending tribal warfare that defines the Middle East (as well as most other parts of the world where tribal ties are held more deeply than national interests) MBS is the highly educated, personable thug to become the leader of the pack. He doesn’t seem as bloodthirsty as Saddam Husein’s Family or the Ayatollah Kakamamees though.

 

That said, I don’t trust Erdogan one whit. 

[Deranged Rhino]

The timing of this... 

 

Turkey trying to look good to flip the US/Saudi relationship? Or an honest attempt to repair the Turk/US relationship?

 

We'll find out.

[Nanker]

It is curious timing. Throwing Trump a bone all the while sliming MBS to create a wedge between KSA and the USA.

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, Wacka said:

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

Absolutely, but until you clowns elected Trump, we exercised the moral leadership of the world, see Reagan's "City Upon A Hill" rhetoric for an example. 

 

That you so casually throw that away with "Not our problem" garbage says so much about Trump, his supporters and where this trashy movement is taking us. 

[Deranged Rhino]

SCOREBOARD

...The movement is taking us so far to:

 

Peace in the Koreas

No new wars

Economic prosperity across all demos

 

... Hillary's administration so far:

 

[Nanker]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

SCOREBOARD

...The movement is taking us so far to:

 

Peace in the Koreas

No new wars

Economic prosperity across all demos

 

... Hillary's administration so far:

 

 for the gyph

for the post. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Important context/food for thought while trying to puzzle this one out: it's a post no-name world... puppeteers are scrambling to reestablish a grip on the wheel of power.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Absolutely, but until you clowns elected Trump, we exercised the moral leadership of the world, see Reagan's "City Upon A Hill" rhetoric for an example. 

 

That you so casually throw that away with "Not our problem" garbage says so much about Trump, his supporters and where this trashy movement is taking us. 

Gleeful Gator, can you explain all the trouble in the Middle East in the past decade? Start with red lines in the sand, pallets of cash and supplying AQ with weapons.

[Deranged Rhino]

As I suspected: 

 

Saffuri is an enemy of the United States and an AQ sympathyizer. What would he, or AQ, have to gain at putting a wedge between the GCC and the US?

 

 

 

(answer: A LOT)

 

Optics:

 

And lies. 

 

(Remember Isikoff's role in the dossier/coup attempt... also has skin in this game)

[KD in CA]

22 hours ago, Nanker said:

Erdogan faked a coup attempt in order to purge his enemies.

 

Kinda scary how the US media not only ignored this fact but ran the propaganda line for Erdogan.

[Deranged Rhino]

More from the thread above: 

 

It's a shame journalists no longer do their jobs. 

[Benjamin Franklin]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Kinda scary how the US media not only ignored this fact but ran the propaganda line for Erdogan.

 

I've read no end of articles decrying him as a strongman and dictator for a decade. He's no friend of democracy and it's been endlessly covered. 

 

That doesn't mean he's wrong on what happened here, and he's happy to benefit from calling out Saudi Arabia. Pretty easy for SA to refute his claims. SA says Khashoggi entered the embassy and also says he left. That story is easy to prove. Probably their cameras were out though and they can't find the footage.

 

The fallout is that it looks very bad (again) for us to be aligned with such states. All we do is move these slimey pieces around the chess board in the hopes that one of these countries isn't a !@#$ing nightmare. Trump (Kushner) is just the latest guy to play the game.   

[TakeYouToTasker]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said:

 

I've read no end of articles decrying him as a strongman and dictator for a decade. He's no friend of democracy and it's been endlessly covered. 

 

That doesn't mean he's wrong on what happened here, and he's happy to benefit from calling out Saudi Arabia. Pretty easy for SA to refute his claims. SA says Khashoggi entered the embassy and also says he left. That story is easy to prove. Probably their cameras were out though and they can't find the footage.

 

The fallout is that it looks very bad (again) for us to be aligned with such states. All we do is move these slimey pieces around the chess board in the hopes that one of these countries isn't a !@#$ing nightmare. Trump (Kushner) is just the latest guy to play the game.   

 

Disingenuous, and promoting a gross mischaracterization of how geo-politics works.

 

KSA isn't the power player in the world, or in this relationship.  We are.

 

We haven't aligned with their interests, but rather they have aligned with ours to the extent that they've begun along the long road of recognizing religious freedoms and the rights of women, and purging out a massive amount of bad actors within their own government; and we have benefited from them doing so in regards to snuffing out bad actors within our own government, and in cracking down on the international slave trade, advancing human freedom on a global scale.

 

With that said, these nations are their own sovereign entities.

 

We don't control them. 

 

Is your argument here that if KSA did sanction the killing of one of their own citizens acting as a journalist, that we should go to war with them?  That we should suspend diplomatic relations, and abandon the larger pursuit of human freedom in the world and domestically?  What's your end game here?