Tiberius Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 2:36 AM, Doc Brown said: It's a ludicrous connection to make. You can point out the hypocrisy with Trump generalizing that all Democrats are a mob (while it's just a sliver of people with nothing else better to do) while he praises a GOP congressman for attacking a journalist which he plead guilty to a misdemeanor for. A foreign government we're in bed with possibly killing a Washington Post reporter and chopping him into little pieces is completely different than a Congressman who lost his cool and bodyslammed a reporter. A physical assault on anyone is really something the President of the United States should not be praising. It's a green light to attack. If Obama had done something like that you guys would be--rightly--calling him out and probably calling for impeachment. The timing is almost disgusting. A murder happens to a jounalist and our worthless president praises an attack on a journalist. I'm sure its a coincidence. How much have the Saudis shipped to Trump through his hotels?
Wacka Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 Not as much as they shipped to the Clinton Foundation (er ...I mean slush fund). 1
keepthefaith Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 6:43 AM, Thurmal34 said: I do have to say, these posts will be useful artifacts to look back on when my kiddos get married and move on to successful careers. This board’s posts capture the “angry white man” ex majority narrative better than I could ever articulate. Best bet is to just watch Gangs of New York to figure out what is happening. Im a registered republican and have been since I was 18, but I have to wonder why my party wants so badly to find ways to deny Americans the right to vote. That’s not too impressive...what are you afraid of? Yes, murder! State TV for everyone! How exactly are people being denied the right to vote? On 10/20/2018 at 11:45 PM, Thurmal34 said: I agree, we have anyone looking for the truth! A fist fight. Right. 18-1, with a bone saw. Why is killing reporters is being normalized? What the hell is happening? Not normalized. It was a murder in another part of the world. How many of those happen every day? The reality is that in every part of the world if you piss off the wrong person you might end up dead. Not legal, but it happens a lot. He must have really pissed somebody off and maybe didn't consider the risks. In this case it's more evidence that parts of the islamic world are 500 years behind the times.
IDBillzFan Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, keepthefaith said: How exactly are people being denied the right to vote? They make it difficult to find the things to vote for on a two-page ballot. You can't expect people to actually find the Senate race in the lower left corner of ballot any more we could ever expect...The Spanish Inquisition!
Tiberius Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, peace out said: #MAGA His business interest are our foreign policy. Seriously!
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: In this case it's more evidence that parts of the islamic world are 500 years behind the times. 2 And looks like those are the parts of the Islamic World Trump is lining up behind. 23 minutes ago, Tiberius said: His business interest are our foreign policy. Seriously! and in his statement implied that Khashoggi was " an enemy of the state" hmm ..a reporter gets killed and Trump says "he is an enemy of the state" as maybe justification. Where have I heard that "enemy of the people" thing before 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: And looks like those are the parts of the Islamic World Trump is lining up behind. and in his statement implied that Khashoggi was " an enemy of the state" hmm ..a reporter gets killed and Trump says "he is an enemy of the state" as maybe justification. Where have I heard that "enemy of the people" thing before If a Presidential Administration had placed an incredibly high priority on breaking up and ending a global human trafficking ring run at the highest levels by bad actors in what were considered totalitarian dictatorships, and sought to avoid a full scale world war in the process; would it not make complete sense that he would seek to help them first break loose of chains binding those actors themselves which tied them to those trafficking routines, and then to help them purge out the true bad actors within? Even if it meant forging relationships with individuals/nations whom may still have human rights abuses, so long as it worked on a macro level towards the end goals of eliminating modern slavery? The truth is that if we want to end human trafficking, we have to make strong ties with the leaders of nations who had been the most heavily involved, and give them a way out. We cannot isolate them and find a way forward. We need to bring those nations towards us, even if there are pain points along the way. 1
keepthefaith Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: And looks like those are the parts of the Islamic World Trump is lining up behind. and in his statement implied that Khashoggi was " an enemy of the state" hmm ..a reporter gets killed and Trump says "he is an enemy of the state" as maybe justification. Where have I heard that "enemy of the people" thing before To which I say: What does any of this have to do with $22T in debt and climbing, giant annual increases in health insurance costs and out of control illegal immigration? We all really need to focus on the big stuff and ask our government to simply focus on getting a few big things right. Khashoggi matters less to me than the next person in Chicago that nobody knows that gets killed. In terms of foreign policy, Trump is doing pretty well overall. He's taking on the larger tougher stuff.
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: If a Presidential Administration had placed an incredibly high priority on breaking up and ending a global human trafficking ring run at the highest levels by bad actors in what were considered totalitarian dictatorships, and sought to avoid a full scale world war in the process; would it not make complete sense that he would seek to help them first break loose of chains binding those actors themselves which tied them to those trafficking routines, and then to help them purge out the true bad actors within? Even if it meant forging relationships with individuals/nations whom may still have human rights abuses, so long as it worked on a macro level towards the end goals of eliminating modern slavery? The truth is that if we want to end human trafficking, we have to make strong ties with the leaders of nations who had been the most heavily involved, and give them a way out. We cannot isolate them and find a way forward. We need to bring those nations towards us, even if there are pain points along the way. I will freely admit to not being well versed on the "global human trafficking ring" as you describe..more than open to being educated. Just now, keepthefaith said: To which I say: What does any of this have to do with $22T in debt and climbing, giant annual increases in health insurance costs and out of control illegal immigration? We all really need to focus on the big stuff and ask our government to simply focus on getting a few big things right. Khashoggi matters less to me than the next person in Chicago that nobody knows that gets killed. In terms of foreign policy, Trump is doing pretty well overall. He's taking on the larger tougher stuff. The 3 things you point to in sentence one all exasperated by Trump and his administration/policies no? Khashoggi matters precisely because of his profession...we can disagree on Trump's foreign policy wins..but his attack on the press and his reference to "enemy of the state" in his statement I find abhorrent.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: and in his statement implied that Khashoggi was " an enemy of the state" hmm ..a reporter gets killed and Trump says "he is an enemy of the state" as maybe justification. Where have I heard that "enemy of the people" thing before He was an AQ sympathizer and likely IC asset. He wasn't just a reporter. Khashoggi was working on behalf of bin Talal, who has a serious ax to grind against not only MBS but Trump and the west. We're being told about 1/10th of the truth about this story, and most of the mainstream reports are just parroting Erodgan talking points without identifying them as such. Calling him a journalist without filling out the rest of his CV is a dead giveaway that this is an information campaign. (imo)
plenzmd1 Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He was an AQ sympathizer and likely IC asset. He wasn't just a reporter. Khashoggi was working on behalf of bin Talal, who has a serious ax to grind against not only MBS but Trump and the west. We're being told about 1/10th of the truth about this story, and most of the mainstream reports are just parroting Erodgan talking points without identifying them as such. Calling him a journalist without filling out the rest of his CV is a dead giveaway that this is an information campaign. (imo) I can’t just buy that at face value. Dude was a journalist as far as any knows... unless you have evidence to the contrary. And it really pains me to see refer to him as “ an enemy of the state”. Does that not scare you that he uses the same rhetoric when a journalist gets assassinated as when he talks about the American press corps?
Wacka Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Calling him a journalist without filling out the rest of his CV is a dead giveaway that this is an information campaign. (imo) He was as much of a journalist as Jim Acosta is!
Deranged Rhino Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I can’t just buy that at face value. Dude was a journalist as far as any knows... unless you have evidence to the contrary. He interviewed OBS before 9/11. Was pictured openly with AQ members and an RPG launcher: (center) Due to the inherent western IC connections between the Mujaheddin and OBS prior to 9/11 - as well as his employment in the Langley owned WaPo - it's 99% certain he was an intelligence asset himself. A go-between to spin stories that need spinning. This is more common than you'd think. His relationship with bin Talal is also well documented. Bin Talal - who at one point owned CitiBank and the largest shares of Twitter, 20th Century Fox, and other US media corporations - has not just blood on his hands as a known financier of both Shia and Sunni terror groups (including AQ), he also work(ed) closely with the USIC for many, many years and was an active donor to many political campaigns. Bin Talal was confined, fined, and tortured for days by MBS in 2017 for these crimes. He has a serious ax to grind with both MBS and Trump. Khshoggi was one of his mouthpieces in KSA (and the west). This is spook on spook crime - not an innocent journalist getting whacked. You just won't hear it reported that way. 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: And it really pains me to see refer to him as “ an enemy of the state”. Does that not scare you that he uses the same rhetoric when a journalist gets assassinated as when he talks about the American press corps? As a writer (even in fiction) my entire job depends on freedom of expression and the press, so I'm sensitive to it. But Trump's words don't bother me because I've heard them in context. He's never referred to the press corps or the press as an enemy of the people. He very clearly defines a subset of the press that intentionally misleads the public (in stories just like this) to cover up the sins of spooks and nation states across the world. To me, that's a very clear distinction - but it's intentionally conflated by the press because "Orange man bad".
GoBills808 Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He was an AQ sympathizer and likely IC asset. He wasn't just a reporter. Khashoggi was working on behalf of bin Talal, who has a serious ax to grind against not only MBS but Trump and the west. We're being told about 1/10th of the truth about this story, and most of the mainstream reports are just parroting Erodgan talking points without identifying them as such. Calling him a journalist without filling out the rest of his CV is a dead giveaway that this is an information campaign. (imo) It's also fair to mention he supported AQ's goals wrt opposing Soviet occupation, and distanced himself from the group and UBL around the time they pivoted from revolutionaries to jihadists. ...don't want to say 'I told you so' but I voiced my reservations about MbS to you a while back, notwithstanding recent Saudi-led efforts to discredit Kashoggi I'd say this is a bad look for the 'reformist'. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: It's also fair to mention he supported AQ's goals wrt opposing Soviet occupation, and distanced himself from the group and UBL around the time they pivoted from revolutionaries to jihadists. ...don't want to say 'I told you so' but I voiced my reservations about MbS to you a while back, notwithstanding recent Saudi-led efforts to discredit Kashoggi I'd say this is a bad look for the 'reformist'. (on PPP you should always say "I told you so". It's deserved here.) It's fair to mention that - but he never distanced himself from the IC or bin Talal. Both of those elements dabble on all sides of every conflict (they go where the money is). And I agree it's a bad look because no one will ever get the full story (that I'm laying out above). If people understood who he really was, and who's pushing this story in the news cycle (and why) - the outrage would be pretty minimal. Because the system that's pushing this all is exactly the system MBS is trying to reform... that's why he's a threat. Putting a wedge between the US and KSA is important for the (imo) group/system he's trying to reform. Also - related to Plenz - I just saw this was tweeted today by G-Pap: (Mifsud = western intelligence, not Russian. More evidence he was a spook more so than a journalist.) Edited November 20, 2018 by Deranged Rhino
GoBills808 Posted November 20, 2018 Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's fair to mention that - but he never distanced himself from the IC or bin Talal. Both of those elements dabble on all sides of every conflict (they go where the money is). And I agree it's a bad look because no one will ever get the full story (that I'm laying out above). If people understood who he really was, and who's pushing this story in the news cycle (and why) - the outrage would be pretty minimal. Because the system that's pushing this all is exactly the system MBS is trying to reform... that's why he's a threat. Putting a wedge between the US and KSA is important for the (imo) group/system he's trying to reform. I don't dispute for a minute that MbS benefits from a good relationship w/ the US
keepthefaith Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: I will freely admit to not being well versed on the "global human trafficking ring" as you describe..more than open to being educated. The 3 things you point to in sentence one all exasperated by Trump and his administration/policies no? Khashoggi matters precisely because of his profession...we can disagree on Trump's foreign policy wins..but his attack on the press and his reference to "enemy of the state" in his statement I find abhorrent. Trump is guilty of not yet addressing fiscal responsibility. Trump has made some tiny efforts to address health insurance costs but his administration does not appear to be engaged in a solution. Trump is making efforts to solve illegal immigration and being stonewalled at every turn obviously. At the very least he is exposing that our laws and courts somehow don't allow us to simply turn away people who enter or stay improperly. As for the dead reporter he doesn't matter more to me because of his profession. In my view he matters less than the part time waitress/waiter that serves lunch. The journalist profession is heavily soiled IMO due to so many bad actors within it. It is a ***** industry. 16 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: He was an AQ sympathizer and likely IC asset. He wasn't just a reporter. Khashoggi was working on behalf of bin Talal, who has a serious ax to grind against not only MBS but Trump and the west. We're being told about 1/10th of the truth about this story, and most of the mainstream reports are just parroting Erodgan talking points without identifying them as such. Calling him a journalist without filling out the rest of his CV is a dead giveaway that this is an information campaign. (imo) If this is true then it easily explains why Trump hasn't had a strong public response. Edited November 21, 2018 by keepthefaith
Recommended Posts