ComradeKayAdams Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 On 4/9/2020 at 11:38 AM, Bill from NYC said: Do you think that pandering to the anti-semites in congress hurt him to any extent. I suspect that this turned off a sizeable amount of Jewish voters. Hi Bill, I’m sure it did to some extent. But I don’t think the correct solution would have been to outright reject Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib and continue to divide the progressive wing into smaller pieces. As the de facto leader of the nation’s progressive left, Bernie should have stepped up to address the situation immediately when it came up, denounce as necessary, reframe the Israel/BDS debate, and clarify an “official” progressive stance on this issue. Bernie didn’t do this because he tends to be way too conflict averse with people he sees as allies. He let the issue linger in the minds of many moderate voters to the point that they came to associate the centrist wing as the pro-Israel group and the progressive wing as the anti-semitic Palestinian apologists group, with little room for nuance. 1 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: Bernie didn’t do this because he tends to be way too conflict averse with people he sees as allies. He let the issue linger in the minds of many moderate voters to the point that they came to associate the centrist wing as the pro-Israel group and the progressive wing as the anti-semitic Palestinian apologists group, with little room for nuance. We were discussing this the other night. I have a slightly different take on Bernie. I think he’s in his lane when he’s railing against those who are not in the room, such as the dastardly ‘billionaires’! But put them at the podium next to him, and he shrinks from direct confrontation with Warren, and others. In short....he’s a blow hard coward. The Senate is the perfect spot for Bernie. He can bloviate about his principles for decades on end but never really has to enact any change, compromise with anyone, or getting much of anything done. It doesn’t make him a bad person. It just makes him more of philosopher priest than a legislator or leader. 1
Bill from NYC Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: Hi Bill, I’m sure it did to some extent. But I don’t think the correct solution would have been to outright reject Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib and continue to divide the progressive wing into smaller pieces. As the de facto leader of the nation’s progressive left, Bernie should have stepped up to address the situation immediately when it came up, denounce as necessary, reframe the Israel/BDS debate, and clarify an “official” progressive stance on this issue. Bernie didn’t do this because he tends to be way too conflict averse with people he sees as allies. He let the issue linger in the minds of many moderate voters to the point that they came to associate the centrist wing as the pro-Israel group and the progressive wing as the anti-semitic Palestinian apologists group, with little room for nuance. Thanks! This explains a lot, but it doesn't excuse what I consider to be fostering anti-Semitism. I think that Jews have historically suffered enough, too much too be abandoned, persecuted, and ridiculed by the democrat party. Sanders, a Brooklyn Jew, should have had the moral decency to defend them. He did not, nor did/does Pelosi have the guts and/or human decency to do so either. Do I have a dog in this fight? Yes, in fact I have 2. I am 1/2 Jewish, and I am a decent enough person to not turn my back on Jews. As always, thanks for the dialogue.
ComradeKayAdams Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Thanks! This explains a lot, but it doesn't excuse what I consider to be fostering anti-Semitism. I think that Jews have historically suffered enough, too much too be abandoned, persecuted, and ridiculed by the democrat party. Sanders, a Brooklyn Jew, should have had the moral decency to defend them. He did not, nor did/does Pelosi have the guts and/or human decency to do so either. Do I have a dog in this fight? Yes, in fact I have 2. I am 1/2 Jewish, and I am a decent enough person to not turn my back on Jews. As always, thanks for the dialogue. The progressive left wing of the Democratic Party is unfortunately a potential breeding ground for anti-semitism because it’s a natural home for those who most vociferously criticize the state of Israel’s actions, Islamophobia, billionaire crony capitalists (Jews are greedy trope), and mainstream media corruption (Jews own entertainment industry tope). I saw glimpses of it myself from time to time within the Bernie movement, though happily not very often and less often than in 2016. So it’s definitely not just corners of the alt-right that foster anti-semitism. It’s something we all need to carefully monitor as our country enters a major social and economic upheaval, since history shows us that Jews are often the most vulnerable and on the front lines of the blame game in times like these. 1 1
sabrecrazed Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: We were discussing this the other night. I have a slightly different take on Bernie. I think he’s in his lane when he’s railing against those who are not in the room, such as the dastardly ‘billionaires’! But put them at the podium next to him, and he shrinks from direct confrontation with Warren, and others. In short....he’s a blow hard coward. The Senate is the perfect spot for Bernie. He can bloviate about his principles for decades on end but never really has to enact any change, compromise with anyone, or getting much of anything done. It doesn’t make him a bad person. It just makes him more of philosopher priest than a legislator or leader. This is true. It's that he's a commie, con-artist, and thief that makes him a bad person 1
Bill from NYC Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, RealKayAdams said: The progressive left wing of the Democratic Party is unfortunately a potential breeding ground for anti-semitism because it’s a natural home for those who most vociferously criticize the state of Israel’s actions, Islamophobia, billionaire crony capitalists (Jews are greedy trope), and mainstream media corruption (Jews own entertainment industry tope). I saw glimpses of it myself from time to time within the Bernie movement, though happily not very often and less often than in 2016. So it’s definitely not just corners of the alt-right that foster anti-semitism. It’s something we all need to carefully monitor as our country enters a major social and economic upheaval, since history shows us that Jews are often the most vulnerable and on the front lines of the blame game in times like these. I continue to be shocked at your honesty and open mind. Sorry if this sounds condescending because I truly do not want to give that impression. Hey, I am a conservative who supports labor unions. I don't sing the virtues of the Republican Party on every issue. Oh, and I am not always fond of the tactics of many national union leaders. Btw, I believe that the alt-right is practically non existent. If there was a KKK meeting with 100 in attendance, 50 would be feds, 30 would be police informants and the other 20 would be sick losers with a combined IQ of 50. ANTIFA is a far bigger threat than the Klan these days, and is at least as violent. They are smarter than the KKK but equally disturbed. Edited April 11, 2020 by Bill from NYC 5
Doc Brown Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 Nice job Dems. You really know how to pick them. Poll: Obama would be better amid coronavirus, but Trump bests Biden When asked who would be a better leader during the outbreak, 52 percent of voters said Obama would be better during the crisis, compared with 38 percent who said Trump would be the stronger of the two leaders. Ten percent did not have an opinion. By an 8-point margin, more voters picked Trump (44 percent) as a better leader during the crisis than Biden (36 percent), though voters were split evenly in the survey when asked whom they would trust to handle the issue. 2
3rdnlng Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Nice job Dems. You really know how to pick them. Poll: Obama would be better amid coronavirus, but Trump bests Biden When asked who would be a better leader during the outbreak, 52 percent of voters said Obama would be better during the crisis, compared with 38 percent who said Trump would be the stronger of the two leaders. Ten percent did not have an opinion. By an 8-point margin, more voters picked Trump (44 percent) as a better leader during the crisis than Biden (36 percent), though voters were split evenly in the survey when asked whom they would trust to handle the issue. Probably because of the masterful way Obama handled the swine flu, eh?
Doc Brown Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Probably because of the masterful way Obama handled the swine flu, eh? ?????? 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 ...not sure if this clown should be cited for "traveling" or double dribble"............ Mark Cuban predicts 'world-changing' innovation stemming from outbreak, keeps 'door open' to 2020 bid By Ronn Blitzer | Fox News Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban believes that despite the negative impact the coronavirus outbreak has had on the U.S., it will result in ‘world-changing’ innovation – and possibly his own run at the presidency. In a conversation with “Fox News Sunday,” Cuban predicted that the struggles facing the country will inspire entrepreneurs to tackle present-day challenges. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mark-cuban-on-how-economy-will-return-to-normal-keeping-the-door-open-to-2020-bid 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 The NYT, ladies and gents: No Chance Joe -- not even with the Gray Lady running interference. 2 1
Foxx Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: The NYT, ladies and gents: ... and... it's gone. 1 3
Deranged Rhino Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 Just now, Foxx said: and... it's gone. That was faster than I expected ... wonder what the correction will be? I bet it'll be the same minus everything from "beyond" on. 1
Chef Jim Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 Holy Hell?!?!? Did they really just say that? No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of our reporting, nor did any former Biden staff corroborate Reade’s allegation. We found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Biden, beyond hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable 1 minute ago, Foxx said: and... it's gone. The beauty of the internet. It’s never really gone. 3 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Chef Jim said: Holy Hell?!?!? Did they really just say that? No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of our reporting, nor did any former Biden staff corroborate Reade’s allegation. We found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Biden, beyond hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable The beauty of the internet. It’s never really gone. They did indeed. And were getting killed for it (rightly so). Compare to Kavanaugh/Ford, and then laugh. 2
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