Democratic 2020 Presidential Primary Thread

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

Bernie is dangerous.

 

I know the DNC & the Rick Wilsons of the world think he's a sure loss in the general election, but I'm not so sure. He's the only one with passionate supporters, he's appealing to those who reject the establishment, and the TDS crew will fall in line behind whoever gets the nomination.

 

The casual Bernie Bros seem to think "Democratic Socialism" means raising the minimum wage and raising taxes on the super rich so everyone can have free healthcare and college, while still retaining what is essentially a market based economy. Why they're so confident that a western European style mixed economy is the end game is a mystery to me. Given Bernie's history and rhetoric, I think something more akin to Chinese or Soviet style Communism is a more likely goal.

 

That may seem extreme, but no one's going to admit to that goal outright. It's a slow incremental approach. Recall a few years ago it was considered the height of absurdity to suggest that Obama (and by extension, the Dems) was a socialist. Fast forward just a few years and they're openly advocating for it.

 

Forgetting for a minute that governments seldom if ever cease to pursue power, Bernie's own words are cause for concern. He says he wants to "fundamentally transform" our society. That's not language to be taken lightly. That's the kind of talk that starts with a free and prosperous society and millions of corpses later ends in oppression and poverty.

 

Most of the Bernie Bros care about policy, but few really understand those policies or the history of their effects. The basis for their belief that these things will work the way they envision is that they want them to. 

 

Many of the hardcore Bernie Bros who are deep in it and have been from the start are self-avowed Marxists. I was not the least bit surprised to see that some of his paid staffers we're caught on tape defending Soviet gulags. Diving into Bernie's history shows us a guy who was enchanted with Marxist ideology, and there's no indication that he's veered from that course. It's not hard to see him trying to implement a command economy.

 

Fortunately Presidents don't have the power to make such drastic changes, but with the level of indoctrination in media, entertainment, and academia, he could start us down that path. It's a dangerous path to go down, because you don't have to go very far before you can't walk it back.

 

As one fella said, you can vote your way into Communism, but you have to shoot your way out.

 

 

 

Tingles of all people raised a similar point, but I doubt it gets much traction. Follow the link to see his take:

 

 

  I doubt that the average Bernie Bro if having attended a public school is aware of any history prior to the Clinton Administration and any discussion about communism is done in the manner of a soft sell.  My nieces and nephews being the age of the average Bernie Bro tell me that things such as World War II or the Cold War barely get a mention in high school.

[reddogblitz]

12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I doubt that the average Bernie Bro if having attended a public school is aware of any history prior to the Clinton Administration and any discussion about communism is done in the manner of a soft sell.  My nieces and nephews being the age of the average Bernie Bro tell me that things such as World War II or the Cold War barely get a mention in high school.

 

This is a very common mis-characterization of Bernie supporters.  They're not all kids.  A LOT of them are older people too. 

[Rob's House]

7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I doubt that the average Bernie Bro if having attended a public school is aware of any history prior to the Clinton Administration and any discussion about communism is done in the manner of a soft sell.  My nieces and nephews being the age of the average Bernie Bro tell me that things such as World War II or the Cold War barely get a mention in high school.

 

I find it interesting that Nazi Germany, which is subversively referred to as "right-wing," is taught in great depth, and in such cartoonish & moralistic fashion that nothing of value could ever be gleened from it, but the history of the Soviet Union, which was equally if not more brutal in measure, and far more deadly in scope, barely gets a mention.

 

I assume some of that is due to the fact that the Soviets were our allies and post-war propaganda always sensationalizes the evils of the enemy & downplays that of allies, but I don't think that explanation is sufficient.

 

I find it far more likely that the leftists who control the curriculum do not want to shed light on the horrors and atrocities of a government born out of a "workers" revolution, that cannot be described as anything other than "left-wing."

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is a very common mis-characterization of Bernie supporters.  They're not all kids.  A LOT of them are older people too. 

  That is true of any political personality.  Quite a number of Reagan supporters during the 1980's were younger people.  I would venture a guess that most of the Bernie Bro's are under the age of 35 such as it is with my family.

[Rob's House]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is a very common mis-characterization of Bernie supporters.  They're not all kids.  A LOT of them are older people too. 

 

That's true. A lot of them look like this.

 

 

[gr8billsfan]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is a very common mis-characterization of Bernie supporters.  They're not all kids.  A LOT of them are older people too. 

The only problem with Bernie is that it’s not possible to give out anything for free. Another problem is pulling in moderates. 

[njbuff]

Why can't the Democrats find a worthy candidate?

 

There are a lot more registered Democrats in this country and they can't find ANYONE worth a darn?

 

Sad.

[3rdnlng]

Nazi

[ˈnätsē]

 

NOUN

1. historical

   a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

ADJECTIVE

1. of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

   synonyms:

   authoritarian · totalitarian · dictatorial · despotic · draconian · autocratic · 

   [more]

    

   Hmmmn.

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

I find it interesting that Nazi Germany, which is subversively referred to as "right-wing," is taught in great depth, and in such cartoonish & moralistic fashion that nothing of value could ever be gleened from it, but the history of the Soviet Union, which was equally if not more brutal in measure, and far more deadly in scope, barely gets a mention.

 

I assume some of that is due to the fact that the Soviets were our allies and post-war propaganda always sensationalizes the evils of the enemy & downplays that of allies, but I don't think that explanation is sufficient.

 

I find it far more likely that the leftists who control the curriculum do not want to shed light on the horrors and atrocities of a government born out of a "workers" revolution, that cannot be described as anything other than "left-wing."

  From what I can gather any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a sub-topic of the rise of communist-socialist-Marxist school of thought starting in the 19th Century.  Like you said any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a cartoonish take featuring white supremacy.  Virtually nothing is said about Germany losing WWI and reparations creating a climate where extremists would thrive.  I wish some of my ancestors were still around that lived through the aftermath of WWI in central Europe.  People used to criticize one of them as being introverted but I realized that after getting to know that person that they lived through an environment where keeping your mouth shut kept you alive even among your own family. 

4 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Why can't the Democrats find a worthy candidate?

 

There are a lot more registered Democrats in this country and they can't find ANYONE worth a darn?

 

Sad.

  The trouble is that a lot of them have died off including big labor Dems who under pinned the party for a big chunk of the 20th Century.

[njbuff]

6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  From what I can gather any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a sub-topic of the rise of communist-socialist-Marxist school of thought starting in the 19th Century.  Like you said any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a cartoonish take featuring white supremacy.  Virtually nothing is said about Germany losing WWI and reparations creating a climate where extremists would thrive.  I wish some of my ancestors were still around that lived through the aftermath of WWI in central Europe.  People used to criticize one of them as being introverted but I realized that after getting to know that person that they lived through an environment where keeping your mouth shut kept you alive even among your own family. 

  The trouble is that a lot of them have died off including big labor Dems who under pinned the party for a big chunk of the 20th Century.

 

Their best bet is Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) in 2024. ?

[reddogblitz]

20 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  That is true of any political personality.  Quite a number of Reagan supporters during the 1980's were younger people.  I would venture a guess that most of the Bernie Bro's are under the age of 35 such as it is with my family.

 

Excuse me, I resemble that remark.  As did a lot of my friends at the time.

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Their best bet is Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) in 2024. ?

Careful now, you'll get Buffalo_Gal all excited.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Excuse me, I resemble that remark.  As did a lot of my friends at the time.

  What?  

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

Careful now, you'll get Buffalo_Gal all excited.

 

Sorry.

 

?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

No chance Joe.

(He never had a chance, @transplantbillsfan -- because he's a terrible candidate with more skeletons in his closet than IQ points)

[Buffalo_Gal]

56 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Their best bet is Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) in 2024. ?

I'd vote for him!!! ? ? 

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  From what I can gather any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a sub-topic of the rise of communist-socialist-Marxist school of thought starting in the 19th Century.  Like you said any discussion of Nazi Germany is limited to a cartoonish take featuring white supremacy.  Virtually nothing is said about Germany losing WWI and reparations creating a climate where extremists would thrive.  I wish some of my ancestors were still around that lived through the aftermath of WWI in central Europe.  People used to criticize one of them as being introverted but I realized that after getting to know that person that they lived through an environment where keeping your mouth shut kept you alive even among your own family. 

 

A related point that gets overlooked is the view of race, ethnicity, genetics, and nationality that existed throughout the developed world in the decades leading up to that point.

 

The way it's taught you'd think these theories just popped up out of the blue.

 

There are a lot of parallels between the evolution of those ideas and those of the dominant global theory that prevails today. It runs in the opposite direction, but is running to such an extreme that it threatens to become just as destructive as that which it runs from, just as right-wing authoritarianism (as it is widely defined) is virtually indistinguishable from left-wing totalitarianism.

 

The primary distinction is that the former was defined by the belief of racial/ethnic distinctions as the primary foundation of culture and value, and a goal of genetic and cultural purity, and relative hegemony of the superior group(s). The latter is defined by a categorical rejection of genetic racial/ethic distinctions with a goal of suppressing the dominant culture and subjugating those racial/ethnic groups who are perceived to be part of that culture.

 

We are coming full circle as rhetoric about the inherent evils of whiteness become more prevalent in our discourse, particularly in traditional propaganda outlets such as mass media and institutions of education, starting in elementary school.

 

It takes no great stretch of the imagination to see the parallels between Nazi propaganda about Jews and US propaganda about consevatives, 1%ers, and white supremacists (the definition of which is being expanded to include virtually all white people). The message is clear: all your problems are caused by these people taking advantage of you.

 

Public schools look increasingly more like a more subversive version of the Hitler youth. Children are indoctrinated by the state with left-wing ideology from a young age. The ideology is taught as fact and critical thinking is actively discouraged. The primary difference is that the Hitler youth were taught to follow the party and the leader whereas the leftist youth are taught to follow the ideology. The leftist youth are brought into the fold more subversively so as to provide plausible deniability.

 

Despite extensive coverage on Nazi Germany, these lessons are largely lost as the curriculum focuses on racism, white supremacy, and genocide for the purpose of creating a visceral moral aversion to all things associated with Nazis - like the "right-wing" and "white supremacists." The cultural and political aspects of that situation are a minor footnote.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

@transplantbillsfan  

 

You do understand why Democrats would naturally be nervous, regardless of any candidate on the ballot, right?

 

But nerves don't translate to who wins.

 

In fact, have you even considered that nerves could have the opposite effect you think they will? That people are so nervous that Trump gets reelected that it gets MORE people to turn out rather than less?

 

And before you point to Primaries as indicative of voter turnout, speaking for myself, I won't vote in the Primary this year because I know I will vote for whichever Democratic candidate is elected in November, when I will show up to cast my ballot.

 

I suspect I'm not alone in this sentiment.

[B-Man]

 

 

Democratic Presidential Clown Car Update for February 10, 2020. 

 

“Iowa screws everything up, the Bernie juggernaut gathers momentum, there was another debate, and Biden calls a voter a ‘lying dog-faced pony soldier’.”

 

 

 

 

[RochesterRob]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You do understand why Democrats would naturally be nervous, regardless of any candidate on the ballot, right?

 

But nerves don't translate to who wins.

 

In fact, have you even considered that nerves could have the opposite effect you think they will? That people are so nervous that Trump gets reelected that it gets MORE people to turn out rather than less?

 

And before you point to Primaries as indicative of voter turnout, speaking for myself, I won't vote in the Primary this year because I know I will vote for whichever Democratic candidate is elected in November, when I will show up to cast my ballot.

 

I suspect I'm not alone in this sentiment.

  Not voting in your primary is foolish.  It's your chance to vote for the person who closest reflects your views/values.  It's also not only about the office of POTUS but everybody on down to your town supervisor, town clerk, etc.that may be primary'd in that year.  Quite often it matters a great deal to me who may be running for town supervisor or county judge.

Edited February 11, 2020 by RochesterRob