Democratic 2020 Presidential Primary Thread

[jrober38]

16 hours ago, snafu said:

 

The cost of administering health care is almost completely independent from insurance premiums.

Socialized medicine doesn’t cut out the middle man. The middle man gets replaced by the government. 

 

 

One operates for profit, the other doesn't.

 

That's literally the reason Americans pay more than anyone else in the world for healthcare. 

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

Are you telling me that a $2.4k hospital bill that I recently received for a 45 minute visit is the fault of the insurance companies?

 

Yes. 

 

No other country in the world pays anywhere close to as much for healthcare as the US. All those other countries have universal healthcare. 

[GG]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

One operates for profit, the other doesn't.

 

That's literally the reason Americans pay more than anyone else in the world for healthcare. 

 

Yes. 

 

No other country in the world pays anywhere close to as much for healthcare as the US. All those other countries have universal healthcare. 

Explain how the bill I received from the hospital relates to the insurance company and how the insurance company is responsible for the bill from the hospital.  

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

Explain how the bill I received from the hospital relates to the insurance company and how the insurance company is responsible for the bill from the hospital.  

 

The US is the only developed country where you get a bill. 

Everywhere else, if you go to a hospital, you're taken care of. No bills, no deductables, no copays. All for a fraction of the cost of US healthcare. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by jrober38

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

Explain how the bill I received from the hospital relates to the insurance company and how the insurance company is responsible for the bill from the hospital.  

Isn't the general thought that hospitals price gouge and overcharge because insurance is covering a ton of it? I thought that was why if you told them you aren't insured they will eliminate many of the fees and discount some of the other items.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

The US is the only developed country where you get a bill. 

Everywhere else, if you go to a hospital, you're taken care of. No bills involved to you. 

 

You get a bill every time your purchase something in every other developed country... VAT taxes. Healthcare coverage is not free, regardless of how you (or anyone else) wants to spin it. You pay and pay and pay daily possibly never using what you are paying for with a "government insurance program", or you pay an insurance bill or doctor or hospital bill based on usage.

 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

You get a bill every time your purchase something in every other developed country... VAT taxes. Healthcare coverage is not free, regardless of how you (or anyone else) wants to spin it. You pay and pay and pay daily possibly never using what you are paying for with a "government insurance program", or you pay an insurance bill or doctor or hospital bill based on usage.

 

 

When did I say it was free?

 

I said it costs a fraction of what it costs in the US.

 

Healthcare is literally something everyone will use at some point of their life. The system works all over the world, and in most developed countries healthcare is better, and much more affordable than in the US, who has the highest cost per capita in the world. In no other country can you go bankrupt because you got sick. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by jrober38

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

When did I say it was free?

 

I said it costs a fraction of what it costs in the US.

 

Healthcare is literally something everyone will use at some point of their life. The system works all over the world, and in most developed countries healthcare is better, and much more affordable than in the US, who has the highest cost per capita in the world. In no other country can you go bankrupt because you got sick. 

 

Tell that to the Canadian peeps sitting in the waiting rooms in the Buffalo area. Those people will eventually get reimbursed, but they have to pay the doctors, hospitals, etc in the US. Which means they need the cash to get the treatment in the US in order to not have to deal with the long waits for surgery or treatment in Canada. 

 

I think if you breakdown down the costs of US vs socialized medicine, you will be able to lay a lot of the increased cost at Big Pharmas feet.

[jrober38]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

Tell that to the Canadian peeps sitting in the waiting rooms in the Buffalo area. Those people will eventually get reimbursed, but they have to pay the doctors, hospitals, etc in the US. Which means they need the cash to get the treatment in the US in order to not have to deal with the long waits for surgery or treatment in Canada. 

 

I think if you breakdown down the costs of US vs socialized medicine, you will be able to lay a lot of the increased cost at Big Pharmas feet.

 

This is for elective surgery. 

 

If your life is in danger, you're taken care of immediately in Canada. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

One operates for profit, the other doesn't.

 

That's literally the reason Americans pay more than anyone else in the world for healthcare. 

 

Privately run healthcare is theoretically streamlined and efficient because of competition. In a practical sense, the problems are systemic and actually can be identified and addressed.  Nobody seems to focus on fixing the cost of healthcare.  The fixation is on health insurance providers and premiums (which has its own systemic problems).  Turning over all of those problems to the U.S. Government to fix them and make them magically disappear is not a good idea.  The federal government is inefficient, bloated, and incapable of providing the same service at a lower cost. Nobody compliments medicaid.  Nobody raves about medicare.  Nobody thinks the VA is well run.

 

The first Democratic Debates a few months ago illustrated the fact that each candidate (except perhaps Sanders) pushing for universal health insurance either (a) said that the tax increase to fund the program will be offset by the fact that individuals wouldn't have to pay insurance premiums.  Nobody said that the tax increase would be lower than the premiums not paid.  Nobody described how the taxes would be fairly implemented, or (b) they refused to answer the question because an honest answer would have torpedoed their campaign.  Bottom line is that there will be NO savings to anyone.  It's a B.S. shell game.  The only way to reduce the cost in a government-run system is to implement strict price controls -- which at a minimum would  probably mean hospital bailouts paid for by taxpayers.

 

And, yes, I'd rather see an itemized health care bill than see an un-itemized tax bill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by snafu

[GG]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

The US is the only developed country where you get a bill. 

Everywhere else, if you go to a hospital, you're taken care of. No bills, no deductables, no copays. All for a fraction of the cost of US healthcare. 

 

How is it the insurance companies' issue that you get a bill in the US?  Especially if you don't have insurance?

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

When did I say it was free?

 

I said it costs a fraction of what it costs in the US.

 

 

You say that as though medical patients don't pay taxes.  

[IDBillzFan]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The US is the only developed country where you get a bill. 

Everywhere else, if you go to a hospital, you're taken care of. No bills, no deductables, no copays. All for a fraction of the cost of US healthcare. 

 

Oh, so it's free?

 

Cool.

[3rdnlng]

4 hours ago, snafu said:

 

Privately run healthcare is theoretically streamlined and efficient because of competition. In a practical sense, the problems are systemic and actually can be identified and addressed.  Nobody seems to focus on fixing the cost of healthcare.  The fixation is on health insurance providers and premiums (which has its own systemic problems).  Turning over all of those problems to the U.S. Government to fix them and make them magically disappear is not a good idea.  The federal government is inefficient, bloated, and incapable of providing the same service at a lower cost. Nobody compliments medicaid.  Nobody raves about medicare.  Nobody thinks the VA is well run.

 

The first Democratic Debates a few months ago illustrated the fact that each candidate (except perhaps Sanders) pushing for universal health insurance either (a) said that the tax increase to fund the program will be offset by the fact that individuals wouldn't have to pay insurance premiums.  Nobody said that the tax increase would be lower than the premiums not paid.  Nobody described how the taxes would be fairly implemented, or (b) they refused to answer the question because an honest answer would have torpedoed their campaign.  Bottom line is that there will be NO savings to anyone.  It's a B.S. shell game.  The only way to reduce the cost in a government-run system is to implement strict price controls -- which at a minimum would  probably mean hospital bailouts paid for by taxpayers.

 

And, yes, I'd rather see an itemized health care bill than see an un-itemized tax bill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's too much of a blanket statement. It depends on each individual VA Hospital. I was there today for a 20 minute acupuncture treatment. I was in and out in less than 40 minutes. I've always been treated well and have no complaints. Phoenix on the other hand...………………………………………………...

[reddogblitz]

On 9/18/2019 at 3:03 PM, snafu said:

 

I don't know about the inefficiency of other countries' big governments.  I would wager that my country's big government would fail at this in a big big way.  And you hit on the real problem that should have been addressed back when Obama was making the ACA:  the cost of healthcare is more important than the insurance coverage.  

 

 

 

Since the ACA passed with all D votes and 0 R votes, the Ds could have done whatever they wanted.  Which is what they did.  Think about that for a minute.

7 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  "We're not here because of men at all."  What?  Did she not take high school biology?  Last I knew was that mammals needed to pair up..........  

 

The party of science.

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, snafu said:

Nobody thinks the VA is well run.

 

I don't know if it's well run or not, but I get a lot of my care at the VA and it's excellent.  And, I don't have to haggle with insurance companies over coverage.  I don't have to wait long for appointments either.  

 

I can only speak to my experience.  Your mileage may vary I suppose.

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[jrober38]

6 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Oh, so it's free?

 

Cool.

 

I never said it's free.

 

Taxes will obviously go up. 

8 hours ago, snafu said:

 

Privately run healthcare is theoretically streamlined and efficient because of competition. In a practical sense, the problems are systemic and actually can be identified and addressed.  Nobody seems to focus on fixing the cost of healthcare.  The fixation is on health insurance providers and premiums (which has its own systemic problems).  Turning over all of those problems to the U.S. Government to fix them and make them magically disappear is not a good idea.  The federal government is inefficient, bloated, and incapable of providing the same service at a lower cost. Nobody compliments medicaid.  Nobody raves about medicare.  Nobody thinks the VA is well run.

 

The first Democratic Debates a few months ago illustrated the fact that each candidate (except perhaps Sanders) pushing for universal health insurance either (a) said that the tax increase to fund the program will be offset by the fact that individuals wouldn't have to pay insurance premiums.  Nobody said that the tax increase would be lower than the premiums not paid.  Nobody described how the taxes would be fairly implemented, or (b) they refused to answer the question because an honest answer would have torpedoed their campaign.  Bottom line is that there will be NO savings to anyone.  It's a B.S. shell game.  The only way to reduce the cost in a government-run system is to implement strict price controls -- which at a minimum would  probably mean hospital bailouts paid for by taxpayers.

 

And, yes, I'd rather see an itemized health care bill than see an un-itemized tax bill.

 

I don't get how there can be no savings when everyone who uses this model pays considerably less for healthcare than the US. 

[B-Man]

CHIEF WARREN CHEEKBONES WILL PUT A STOP TO THIS: 

 

Government to Scrutinize Contractors Who Claimed ‘Native American’ Ancestry Without Basis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Sooner or later, both Joe and Sanders have to go on the offensive against her... otherwise it's done. 

[Joe Miner]

29 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Sooner or later, both Joe and Sanders have to go on the offensive against her... otherwise it's done. 

 

Biden will end up like Custer if he goes against Warren.