snafu Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, KRC said: I have no trouble with opposing viewpoints if it is backed up with sound logic and not just feelz. For example, how is Bernie going to pay for all of the free stuff he is promising? If you tax the top 1% at a 100% tax rate, you still do not pay for student loan forgiveness. That means you need to tax more people just to pay for that one program. Then you have the College for All program, New Green Deal, Medicare for All, Economic Bill of Rights, Housing for All, Eliminating Medical Debt, Expanding Social Security, as well as everything else he is promising. He wants to double union membership his first term. That is more out of people's pockets in union dues. I would also like to he how he gets around the court rulings that you cannot mandate that people join a union. Economically, I do not see it without massive wealth redistribution. He hints at it by attacking billionaires, but even with that, there is not enough to pay for everything. all these questions actually answer #3 on @KayAdams list. The only answer is: tear it all down and start over. All of it. That’s what Bernie and his bros don’t want to say out loud. And @KayAdams , I’m not ignoring you. It is just that I’m reading/replying on the subway and your post is pretty thick. Edited February 11, 2020 by snafu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 59 minutes ago, KayAdams said: Hi KRC, This is the central question posed for the Bernie campaign. I gave a very basic reply on page 318, third post down, point #2 of this thread. I would expect the full official details to be revealed at some point in the coming months on Bernie’s webpage, probably as soon as the Dem nomination looks to be secured but no later than July. You will not get them during the Democrat debates or during most TV interviews. I suppose the cynics here are laughing in their laptops right now, thinking that it is either because Bernie secretly intends to soak the productive classes in the country or because he doesn’t have a realistic plan. But for context, realize that it is an extremely common campaign strategy to withhold policy details like this. Many candidates falter because they get caught up defending policy minutiae with opponents and somehow miss the policy forest for the trees. Trump himself understood this campaign concept in 2016 as much as anyone. He never provided the details of his trade policies; he focused on laying the framework philosophy that these NAFTA/TPP deals were unfair and needed to be rewritten. Similarly, Bernie is laying the framework philosophy during the Dem primary season that he differs from the others because of his insistence on the moral imperative to provide every American with health care coverage, regardless of employment status. Over the past few months, we’ve seen many of the other Dem candidates take big hits because of missteps on the singular issue of health care. I get that he is holding off on releasing any details on how he would accomplish it and it is smart for him. You saw the freefall that Liz took when she admitted that taxes would go up to pay for her health plan. Bernie has been a little more open in the fact that he is telling everyone that their taxes will go up, but qualifies it stating that people would pay less overall for healthcare. I have my doubts on that, but I need to see details. Of course, that still does not address how he would pay for all of the other "free" stuff he is promising, but we have to wait and see. Right now, I cannot see him paying for it without massive wealth redistribution and he has hinted that it is exactly how he would accomplish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 46 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The fact still remains that Bernie, if he is honest, won't be able to tell people how he is going to get $5 out of $1. I don't think Bernie even if elected could get the necessary support from a majority dem house and/or majority dem senate to pass medicare for all or his crazy tax rates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, KRC said: I get that he is holding off on releasing any details on how he would accomplish it and it is smart for him. You saw the freefall that Liz took when she admitted that taxes would go up to pay for her health plan. Bernie has been a little more open in the fact that he is telling everyone that their taxes will go up, but qualifies it stating that people would pay less overall for healthcare. I have my doubts on that, but I need to see details. Of course, that still does not address how he would pay for all of the other "free" stuff he is promising, but we have to wait and see. Right now, I cannot see him paying for it without massive wealth redistribution and he has hinted that it is exactly how he would accomplish it. The issue isn't whether he can pay for it. The issue is whether he can get it all passed, and that assumes he can win the presidency, which I find to be a long-shot. Ist's impossible for me to imagine a majority of the electoral college going to Bernie's ideas. He'll get the big ones (NY, CA) but I don't see Florida or PA or Wisconsin or even Colorado going for an avowed socialist. By the way, note to the regular leftist Q-tibs posters: see how @KayAdams holds the discussion? Thoughtful. Detailed. Honest. Humble. Informative. Friendly. When you're done with your meltdown, follow her/his lead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: The issue isn't whether he can pay for it. The issue is whether he can get it all passed, and that assumes he can win the presidency, which I find to be a long-shot. Ist's impossible for me to imagine a majority of the electoral college going to Bernie's ideas. He'll get the big ones (NY, CA) but I don't see Florida or PA or Wisconsin or even Colorado going for an avowed socialist. By the way, note to the regular leftist Q-tibs posters: see how @KayAdams holds the discussion? Thoughtful. Detailed. Honest. Humble. Informative. Friendly. When you're done with your meltdown, follow her/his lead. I think the two are tied together. There is no way you will get it passed when you find out how you have to pay for it. Even with Dem control of everything (WH, HR, SEN) and a "I haven't met a tax increase that I do not like" philosophy, they will still come back and think it is political suicide to raise them by that much. The Squad will be on board, but moderate Dems know they will get voted out if they went along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Koko78 said: The thing people don't get about this place is that if you want to have a rational discussion, you can easily have one (as you are seeing by the replies to your posts.) If you want to post about facts and statistics/numbers or take a facially odd position, be prepared to back them up when challenged - and this applies to people on both the left and right. Do the long division. Far too many people come down here, whine about their 'feelz', then refuse to provide facts to back up their argument or even coherently respond to questions to flesh out what they're saying. They then get offended when they're called idiots, resoundingly mocked, then ultimately dismissed out of hand for their stupidity. This isn't as monolithic an echo chamber for the right as you might suspect (most here tend toward libertarianism.) Back your ***** up, and you'll get respect - even from those who disagree with you. Excellent point -or You are so $#@!ing dumb! (Apply as directed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 *************** Just as the establishment left begins to hitch it's wagon to Mini Mike: (He won't win -- nor will Bernie, nor will Pete, nor will Amy, nor will Liz...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Beginning to? Joe's always been a loser. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Beginning to? Joe's always been a loser. Joe Biden should feel good about the memories made, the money earned, and the status he achieved in life. Pretty amazing for a guy who can barely make it through a paragraph without saying something stupid. He's made racist comments, sexists comments, and he-may-have-had-an-undiagnosed-head-injury comments over the years. Shut up Joe, go home, it's getting uglier every time you open your mouth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 To underline the above: 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 "Top Biden adviser urges calm: 'Huge amount of hyperventilating out there'": https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/top-biden-adviser-urges-calm-huge-amount-hyperventilating-out-there-n1135051 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 17 hours ago, B-Man said: Lost in all the racism of the Bloomberg audio clip is this gem “you gotta get the guns out of the hands of the people that are getting killed.” Notice he didn’t say the killers, he said the people getting killed. Think about that for a moment. In case anyone needed any more evidence that his gun control agenda is about having an easily coerced populace to rule, here his literally coming out and saying we need to take away the means of self defense from would be murder victims. This is the guy the left is trying to sell as a supposed moderate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, KRC said: I think the two are tied together. There is no way you will get it passed when you find out how you have to pay for it. Even with Dem control of everything (WH, HR, SEN) and a "I haven't met a tax increase that I do not like" philosophy, they will still come back and think it is political suicide to raise them by that much. The Squad will be on board, but moderate Dems know they will get voted out if they went along with it. Look at the ACA. Ds had control of everything. All Ds voted for it, all Rs against it. They could have done whatever they wanted. Yet, they did what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Look at the ACA. Ds had control of everything. All Ds voted for it, all Rs against it. They could have done whatever they wanted. Yet, they did what they did. Actually, there was bi-partisan opposition. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: To underline the above: ...oh no Joe!....down scope!...dive!....dive!................ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Actually, there was bi-partisan opposition. You're right in the House. Senate was a straight party line vote. In HoR, 38 or so Ds (including Dennis Kucinich) voted against and 1 R (Anh Cao) voted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Walnut sauce is out too (Styer). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 If Buttigieg pulls this out Bernie Bros are gonna lose their *****. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Walnut sauce is out too (Styer). ... Or not? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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